Tokyo > Manchester cancelled

[SamG]

Usually BA is relaxed about rebooking onto their own metal in this case (and from Japan specifically that should include JAL as it’s a joint venture) so I’m surprised you got push back but glad you got it sorted!

I agree with others- using third party miles to book reward tickets can leave you in trouble if your flight gets cancelled and should be avoided where possible. The airline you book with cannot force the operating carrier to rebook you and QR is well known for not being helpful in these situations

One thing you can try is having the operating carrier rebook you and then the ticketing carrier reissue your ticket. Finding people at the operating airline to help can be very difficult as they’ll want to refer you back to your “agent”.

I think I’ve mentioned this before but a high risk strategy would be to rock up at check in and pretend you weren’t aware , at that point your underlying ticket is in control of the operating carrier and airport staff have a lot more power vs call centres at most airlines so they’d most likely rebook you. Would I try this myself ? No 🤣

[JDB]

@SamG – as mentioned in my previous post, one of the problems I think the OP encountered was that although the journey was from Japan to the UK via Doha it was NOT within the Joint Business agreement with QR (which excludes Japan) and also outside the Joint Business agreement with JL. It is way outside the ken of most agents to fix this complexity, but ultimately BA did. BA staff are also less familiar with the concept of BA’s position when they are effectively a travel agent and not the principal.

[Michael C]

So happy with the outcome!
And the moral of the story is…HUACA, HUACA and HUACA again!!

[SamG]

JDB wrote:

@SamG – as mentioned in my previous post, one of the problems I think the OP encountered was that although the journey was from Japan to the UK via Doha it was NOT within the Joint Business agreement with QR (which excludes Japan) and also outside the Joint Business agreement with JL. It is way outside the ken of most agents to fix this complexity, but ultimately BA did. BA staff are also less familiar with the concept of BA’s position when they are effectively a travel agent and not the principal.

yes – from my understanding BA standard guidelines do not cater for this as it’s not QR JBA and it can’t be easily rebooked unless there is Avios availability on the alternative flight as the “Other prime” policy is “Rebook into the same class as original (or booking class allowed in the fare rules). When BA acts at the travel agent they’re working on whatever the QR policy is, they can’t just decide themselves to utilise revenue fare classes. With QR that policy for third party miles tickets usually seems like take a refund and go away!

But I do know from other situations like this that BA themselves will utilise their own metal (or revenue neutral JV metal) where it’s an option, as they did for the OP eventually.

[lovetravel0527]

Found this in the news this morning https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2024/02/22/japan-airlines-to-commence-haneda-doha-route-next-month/ . Same flight times as what we were originally booked on but think the flight number has changed. This has happened to us previously when flying with BA and we’ve been put straight onto the ‘new’ flight without us needing to contact them. Strange how Qatar Airways wouldn’t tell us about these changes and made it seem like it was completely cancelled. Caused some stress and took time out of our/their day to eventually reach a solution which may not have even been needed. Oh well, it’s a shorter journey overall so don’t mind what we’ve accepted.

[Lady London]

JDB wrote:

@LadyLondon – there isn’t a shred of evidence that such a document exists and I think one should be very careful about making such serious allegations without evidence save the apparent say-so (and hearsay) of one agent. You also prioritise the theory of malice or bad faith over incompetence and a lack of agent training.

There is just so much evidence of people with reward tickets getting rebooked on OneWorld airlines, notably on Joint Business, generally without any fuss. On the day BA will generally rebook with anyone and in advance, BA is light years ahead of Virgin in rerouting.

BA has a published policy for this which has been posted here many times and if you were to read it you would understand why there might have been some initial confusion and reluctance by the BA agent in this case. The OP had booked to travel from Japan to the UK via Doha with QR. That happens not only to take the booking outside the scope of 261 but also outside the BA/QR Joint Business arrangement and outside the BA/JL Joint Business agreement, so a rerouting was never going to be easy, but the fact it was agreed by the call centre ought to confirm to you that the allegation you continue to make is simply wrong.

In this instance, BA had no legal obligation to rebook the passenger but under pressure did so – simply on the telephone, no legal department involvement. Agents and even reservation managers have incredibly little latitude, so this was clearly in policy.

What’s ridiculous is that we both champion the cause of the passenger but I have zero interest in all these allegations of illegality, useless regulators etc. partly because it’s a load of nonsense and it gets you precisely nowhere but more importantly because my sole focus is on getting the pax issue resolved in the quickest and least painful way and that requires calm and an analysis of the specific facts and details provided.

Finally, when accusing BA of acting illegally by loudhailer, I think you actually mean unlawfully but even that isn’t correct as it is just a simple civil dispute – the passenger says I’m entitled to X, BA says no you aren’t. It’s not an illegal or unlawful position to take, even if it’s wrong. It happens in every industry every day. There are various routes for resolving such civil disputes.

@JDB you’re unfortunately still misinterpreting.

I simply objected to the fact that BA would actually send a memorandum even internally, stating a policy that denies rerouting to passengers who’ve booked a reward seat, vs those who paid with cash. For 261 rights, regardless of the fact that this passenger’s flight did not qualify, there isn’t any less rights for an award ticket than a cash ticket. So BA should not have such a policy. As it says they are denying equal treatment to tickets which have the same full rights based on method of payment of the ticket and this is not allowed, particularly for 261. And likely
not allowed as a distinction as to provision of other statutory rights (as compared to areas where BA can have its own contract prevail).

The rest of your post is about other things. My comment only concerned the point above. The other areas, 261, contract etc., were already dealt with well enough by earlier posters. So there was no need for me to comment on those areas.

I did anticipate you coming back with a ‘hearsay’ argument saying BA couldn’t possibly have said this etc. But I was posting late at night so I confined myself to just what I needed to say, on the single point my comment concerned. I decided I’d leave it at that and respond to such an accusation today in daylight and only if you made it.

On the hearsay / lack of evidence thing we are on the internet and my first reflex is to believe someone has stated what they’ve been told correctly until there’s a reason not to. Based on other things people have commented on HfP that they’ve been told are rules airlines are operating (and a good example of this is BA’s other frequently quoted rule that they will only reroute a passenger 3 days before or 14 days after a flight BA cancelled : which is far less than the passenger’s rights), I think it’s reasonable to believe the passenger, and to comment on the policy they’ve been told is being operated by the airline.

That’s all.

[SamG]

“I simply objected to the fact that BA would actually send a memorandum even internally, stating a policy that denies rerouting to passengers who’ve booked a reward seat, vs those who paid with cash.”

It’s on the internet if you search for BA travel trade standard customer guidelines. For a cancellation on a Other Prime flight they can only rebook per the fare rules / into the same class. For a reward seat this is going to be another reward seat – which the OP said wasn’t available. On a cash fare it may be possible depending on what is available (although cancellations on other prime codes on cash BA tickets will be pretty rare I’d have thought)

BA is acting as the travel agent here and can only do what Qatar says per their rebook policy. From what I know QR doesn’t have one that caters for this scenario that BA has access too – even via oneworld support desk. As there is no EU261 right here then I believe the practical result is QR can tell you to go away and get a refund from BA. As it happens BA usually seem to have the ability to resolve this on their own / JV metal but are not obligated to do so. I can’t comment on how contractually with BA / QR you could force them to rebook you.