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More evidence of British Airways prioritising Avios bookings for downgrades?

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A month ago I ran this article speculating that BA has begun to target Avios ticket holders for downgrades.

This would be economically rational.  Under EU regulations, a downgraded passenger is automatically due a 75% refund on that leg of their ticket.  For a cash passenger, that is expensive.

For an Avios passenger, it is not expensive to downgrade.  All the airline has to do is refund a few points.

British Airways BA 777X 777 9X

For an Avios passenger travelling on a 2-4-1 voucher, the downgrade is free to BA.  It has been telling some passengers that as their ticket cost zero Avios, the refund is 75% of zero which is, erm, zero.

After my original article there was some debate about whether this is actually happening.  Some BA staff told me that it isn’t easy to tell whether a passenger is on a 2-4-1 ticket or not, although it is easy to spot those on redemptions on the manifest.  Some agents have implied that it is functionality in FLY, the new check-in and passenger management system, which now allows this policy to be implemented.

It is worth noting that the person involved in my original article issued a Small Claims Court against British Airways after being refused any compensation.  As per this page of Flyertalk, it appears that BA chose not to fight the case and settled for the unspecified amount the passenger demanded.

In the last couple of weeks, two more readers have contacted me with linked stories.

The key one came yesterday from a reader.  I always weigh up news I receive by email from readers to see how truthful and verifiable it seems, but this is one I trust implicitly – the person involved is a regular commentator and has even written a guest article for the site in the past.

If you read the comments on HfP yesterday, you would have seen his regular updates as the situation developed.

This is what he said to me by email:

“At Edinburgh to start our trip to Gatwick and then what was meant to be Club World BAPP 241 reward seats to Male.  At checking in for EDI-LGW we have been told we have been downgraded, either both to World Traveller Plus or just me with my wife staying in CW.  We have been told that BA has oversold the flight and it’s because we are on reward tickets that we have been selected to be downgraded.”

Here is another email I received two weeks ago:

“I have read your article re 2-4-1 downgrades and it almost exactly mirrors our experience.  The Duty Manager was adamant her instructions were to target Redemption ticket holders first.  Given that our seats were showing as still allocated to us that morning (albeit not available to be printed due to “system error” at the hotel), it appears BA have chosen to sell more CW seats on the day . . . knowing they had a supply of 2-4-1 pax ready to be downgraded

It is a largely win-win situation for BA . . .  if there are any no-shows, no skin off their noses, but hey, why not sell an equivalent number of CW seats to exactly match the number of 2-4-1 holders on every flight!  Cheap trick but as I learned in over twenty years with them, the internal “bar” is set at the greediest money-earning opportunity.”

The reader above is not one I have met but I have no reason doubt the accuracy of what he sent me.  He had even paid to reserve specific Club World seats but even that did not protect him from being downgraded.

To clarify, there is no specific proof that this is going on.  No BA employee has yet sent me a copy of the relevant memo or email.

Do let me know if you are also impacted by this and have been told that the staff that you have been downgraded specifically because you are on an Avios ticket.

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Category

British Airways and Avios

Comments (357)

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

  • Pol says:
    25 Feb25 February 10:09

    This makes me very nervous for my upcoming CW flight to jnb. Booked 5 redemption seats, including using 2×241. Not sure I could face 11 hours without a bed.

  • Mohammed says:
    25 Feb25 February 10:17

    OT

    I booked couple of days in Jakarta Thamrin holiday inn for 5k points under the IHG promotion. I wanted to change the dates of the booking but it seems the points needed has gone back to the usual 15k. Why is that? Other destinations from the current list are still showing the 5k points but not this one

    • Rob says:
      25 Feb25 February 10:31

      Each hotel has a fixed number of nights available at 5k. When that number is booked it reverts to the usual price.

      • Mohammed says:
        25 Feb25 February 13:19

        So can I change the date by a day earlier? Will I get the same rate or will it be the standard rate?

        Thanks

        • John says:
          25 Feb25 February 16:57

          Once all the 5000 point rooms have gone for a particular date you won’t be able to change to that date. It looks like all dates are gone for your hotel.

  • Ben says:
    25 Feb25 February 10:49

    Im working towards earning my first 2-4-1 at the moment. Are there any specific routes that are favourites for 2-4-1 redemptions for eithet availability and/or value? Will probably look at West Coast USA or Carribean….

    • Rob says:
      25 Feb25 February 10:53

      San Jose (California) and Oakland are new West Coast routes which are far less popular than LA, San Francisco etc.

    • mark2 says:
      25 Feb25 February 11:01

      Seattle and Vancouver seem to have good availability too.

    • Anna says:
      25 Feb25 February 11:04

      1. Do a few dummy bookings first so you’re familiar with the process – e.g. you have to tick the box specifying you want to use your voucher at the start of the booking or it will quote you for 2 x avios.
      1. Stay up late at T-355.
      2. Be flexible with destinations, and also with dates – mid-week redemptions seem easier to get than weekends.

      For the Caribbean, you are more likely to find availability in low season (May to November) than in the high-demand winter months. I have CW redemptions for August to GCM, travelling out on a Friday as well, so I think season can be more important than when the school holidays are for some destinations.

  • George says:
    25 Feb25 February 11:01

    It is of course not a good experience to be downgraded, but it happens and BA are entirely justified in applying a policy of downgrading miles bookings first (although if I were them, I would also look at the colour of the BA card of the passenger). And equally it makes sense to downgrade the beneficiary of a 2-4-1 ticket as they are (taking that individual flight alone) the least commercially important passenger.

    IMO it is not the downgrading or even the targeting of the miles bookings that is the relevant point here. Rather it is two things:

    1) do BA ignore the 2-4-1 booking when overbooking flights? Ie do they overbook by an extra seat on top of what they would
    normally do, on the basis they don’t care what happens to this passenger? If so, that is outrageous. If not, then the downgrading is just something that has to be lived with as part of air travel (and let’s be thankful we have the EU regs that apply here).

    2) BA need to pay proper compensation for the downgrade. It is important to ensure they are held to account for this.

    So I get why people are upset, but downgrading happens, it makes sense to target miles bookings first, and within that category to target the 2-4-1 ticket. It is how BA deal with it afterwards, and any skullduggery regarding overbooking that are the real issues.

  • David says:
    25 Feb25 February 11:03

    Have not experienced this problem using 2-4-1 flying First. Was wondering if there is any evidence if status is a consideration here. Could the reason we have never been downgraded when using the 2-4-1 or flying on a regular redemption ticket be because we are both BA Gold, and they may not think it worth risking our taking our business elsewhere?

    • Brian says:
      25 Feb25 February 16:34

      Wouldn’t they think that, as Gold status holders, you are more likely to keep flying BA to take advantage of the benefits you get as BA Gold?

  • Neil says:
    25 Feb25 February 11:09

    In theory, I wonder does this make the Lloyds upgrade voucher a little bit more valuable!? Overall, it’s still bad form on BA’s behalf and I for one will be dropping the Premium card after I hit the £10k spend next month. It’s time to start earning Amex points and converting the points to airlines who actually appreciate reward bookings. After all, these airlines make money selling the points in the first place!!

    • Lev441 says:
      25 Feb25 February 11:25

      Perhaps, although the problem with the Lloyds Avios card is that for popular routes, you can’t add a return trip at midnight when flights are released at t-355 days like you can with BAEC…

    • mark2 says:
      25 Feb25 February 11:28

      Are you sure that the LLoyds upgrade could not be rolled back?

      • Lev441 says:
        25 Feb25 February 11:42

        Not exactly sure what you mean by rolled back… i think you can add the voucher to a booking *BUT* only by phoning avios which open at 8am – by this time seats on popular routes could be taken by 00:05!

        • mark2 says:
          25 Feb25 February 11:43

          I meant downgraded at checkin like the 241

        • Kathy says:
          25 Feb25 February 12:27

          I’ve had this problem. Going to try paying full Avios amount at midnight and then calling to get the voucher applied to the booking. Will probably require booking at BA.com and then cancelling and re-booking in Avios.com so the call centre can see the booking. Will be a massive pain!

          • Lev441 says:
            25 Feb25 February 13:07

            If booking online, seats also show up at midnight at avios.com….?

          • Kathy says:
            25 Feb25 February 17:49

            No, they don’t show up at midnight on Avios.com, they show up about half an hour later. I sat with both websites open at midnight hitting refresh to determine that.

  • Jason says:
    25 Feb25 February 11:20

    OTT…delayed 8hours on return fight booked with BA from USA to Lon, was a code share with AA. Who is responsible for the compensation? BA are saying AA

    Thanks
    Jason

    • Genghis says:
      25 Feb25 February 11:26

      It’s not fully clear from your wording. If you flew BA metal = EC261 potentially. If AA metal = nothing.

      • Rob says:
        25 Feb25 February 11:33

        …. but on a codeshare?

        If EU261 is not valid on codeshares operated by non EU airlines then you would expect airlines would be obliged to tell you when booking.

        • Marc says:
          25 Feb25 February 16:49

          It´s all about the opearting company. It´s also our responsibility to be informed correctly.

    • Rob says:
      25 Feb25 February 11:28

      If BA issued your ticket with a 125 ticket number then your contract is with BA.

      Note that flights TO the UK on a US airline are not covered so AA owes you nothing. Question is whether a codeshare with BA makes it a UK flight.

      • Jason says:
        25 Feb25 February 11:33

        Was a BA ticket but was on a AA plane, so potentially nothing?

        • Marc says:
          25 Feb25 February 16:44

          Yep, nothing. In the case fo EU261/2004 it´s all about the opearting comany. Since AA is not a company from a member state (+Iceland,+Norway,+Switzerland) and your are flying TO the UK, EU261/2004 does not apply. Would you have flown BA, then you would be entitled to compensation.

  • NFH says:
    25 Feb25 February 11:47

    It is not true that the cost of the companion’s ticket on a 2-4-1 voucher is zero. There is always a cash element of the booking, which remains substantial even after the price of fuel came down, as BA disingenuously renamed it from a “fuel surcharge” to a “carrier imposed charge” rather than reducing or removing it. But a more significant point is the number of Avios paid. BA cannot claim that Avios element of the companion ticket is ‘gratis’, ‘free’, ‘without charge’ or similar, because to do so would be a breach of Schedule 1 Paragraph 20 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. Given that the companion ticket is given on condition of paying Avios for the first ticket, a court would find the Avios cost of the companion ticket to be half of the total Avios paid for both tickets.

    • Mark says:
      25 Feb25 February 12:11

      Exactly. By legal precedent the amount refundable in the event of a downgrade is 75% of all charges for the sector downgraded, with the exception of taxes and third party fees. For a straight redemption (no 2-4-1) that would be 75% of the avios plus 75% of the “carrier imposed charge”.

      In the case of a 2-4-1 it would cover the avios (on a half each basis as you suggest), the “carrier imposed charge” and the value of the 2-4-1 voucher which I would argue equates to the value of the avios saved for that booking.

    • Mark says:
      25 Feb25 February 12:14

      Could you not also argue that the companion ticket has another cost in the form of having to spend £10,000 on a BA Branded Credit card?

      • AH says:
        25 Feb25 February 12:24

        That is exactly what my argument would be!
        Its not free – £10,000 had to be spent to earn it + paying taxes.

      • Genghis says:
        25 Feb25 February 12:29

        But that opportunity cost is lower than cost of avios

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

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