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Comparing the 11 Avios credit cards that can earn you points!

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What is the best Avios credit card?  With the Lloyds Avios Rewards credit card now closed to new applicants, I wanted to take another look at the other remaining options for earning Avios points from a UK credit card and suggest your best strategy.

If you want to check your credit record before applying for a new card, click here to get your free Experian Credit Score.

All of these cards add a 3% foreign exchange fee, so you might want to get a separate free credit card to use abroad.   Unfortunately there are no travel rewards card without a foreign exchange fee.  One option is to get a free Curve Card – see this HFP article – and link it to a miles-earning Visa or Mastercard.

If you want a dedicated credit card to use abroad, take a look at the Virgin Money Travel Credit Card (click here).  This card is free and charges NO foreign exchange fees.  It also offers 0% interest on purchases for 12 months and 0% interest on balance transfers for 12 months, with no fee.  Representative APR 21.9% variable.

(EDIT:  This article was updated on 1st September 2019 and all the information was correct as of that date.)

What are my options for an Avios credit card?

There are now 11 UK credit or charge cards which earn Avios points at a rate of at least 1 Avios per £1 on an American Express card or 0.2 Avios per £1 on a Mastercard or Visa.

This is what you have to choose from, ranked in order of sign-up bonus:

HSBC Premier World Elite Mastercard  Sign-up bonus:  80,000 HSBC points = 40,000 Avios

(£195 fee, must be a HSBC Premier client to apply, earns 1 Avios per £1, representative APR 59.3% variable including fee based on a notional £1200 credit limit, my HSBC Premier World Elite Mastercard review)

The Platinum Card from American Express    Sign-up bonus:  30,000 Amex Membership Rewards points = 30,000 Avios

(£575, earns 1 Avios per £1, my Amex Platinum review)

British Airways Premium Plus American Express   Sign-up bonus: 25,000 Avios

(£195, earns 1.5 Avios per £1, representative APR 76.0% variable including £195 fee based on a notional £1200 credit limit, my BA Premium Plus review)

American Express Preferred Rewards Gold   Sign-up bonus:  10,000 Amex Membership Rewards points = 10,000 Avios

(free, earns 1 Avios per £1 with a 10000 point bonus for spending £15000 in a year, representative APR 57.6% variable including the annual fee (free in year 1) based on a notional £1,200 credit limit, my Amex Gold review)

Starwood SPG Amex   Sign-up bonus:  30,000 points = 10,000 Avios sign-up

(£75, earns 1 Avios per £1 jumping to 1.25 Avios per £1 if you convert in chunks of 60,000 points, representative APR 39.7% variable including fee based on a notional £1200 credit limit, my Starwood Amex review)

Amex Rewards Credit Card   Sign-up bonus:  0 – 5,000 Amex Membership Rewards points = 0 – 5,000 Avios

(free, earns 1 Avios per £1, APR and sign-up bonus depends on which of the three versions you get, my Amex Rewards review)

British Airways American Express   Sign-up bonus:  5,000 Avios sign-up bonus

(free, earns 1 Avios per £1, representative APR 22.9% variable, my BA Amex review)

IHG Rewards Club Premium Mastercard    Sign-up bonus:  20,000 IHG Rewards Club points = 4,000 Avios

(£99, earns 0.4 Avios per £1, representative APR 41.5% variable including fee based on a notional £1200 credit limit, my IHG Premium Mastercard review)

Tesco Clubcard Mastercard    No sign-up bonus at present

(free, earns 0.3 Avios per £1, representative APR 18.9% variable, my Tesco Mastercard review)

IHG Rewards Club Mastercard   Sign-up bonus:  10,000 IHG Rewards Club points = 2,000 Avios

(free, earns 0.2 Avios per £1, representative APR 41.5% variable including fee based on a notional £1200 credit limit, my IHG Mastercard review)

HSBC Premier Mastercard    No sign-up bonus at present

(free, must be a HSBC Premier customer to apply, earns 0.5 Avios per £1, representative APR 18.9% variable, my HSBC Premier Mastercard review)

Frankly, it would be madness to try to do a comparison chart so instead I want to pick out the key reasons for getting each of the cards – if there is a key reason!

credit cards

Cards with a specific ‘best in class’ reason to get them:

British Airways Premium Plus American Express – the No 1 attraction is the 2-4-1 voucher that you receive for spending £10,000 each year. This is valid on Avios redemptions in ALL classes and saves you, for eg, 150,000 Avios on two Club World peak day tickets to San Francisco. Coupled with a high earnings rate, all serious Avios collectors should have one of theseThis is the best Avios card if you know you will qualify for, and use, the 2-4-1 voucher each year.

(If you travel solo, though, ignore it as the 2-4-1 has no value to you – save £195 and get the free card with a lower earning rate. Similarly, if you cannot spend £10,000 per year on the Amex to trigger the voucher then look elsewhere and save £195.  You also need to be certain that you can generate enough Avios per year to use the 241 voucher effectively – although reading HFP will make that easier!)

American Express Preferred Rewards Gold – this card offers the most generous sign-up bonus for a free card.  You receive 10,000 Amex points for signing up (=10,000 Avios) and there is no fee for Year 1 (£140 thereafter).  You also receive two Lounge Club airport lounge passes among other benefits.  This is the best Amex card for beginners to the miles and points hobby.

Tesco Clubcard Mastercard – this earns 0.3 Avios per £1 if you convert your Clubcard vouchers into Avios.  This makes it the best free Visa or Mastercard for earning Avios for 95% of people (the HSBC Premier cards are better but this has very strict criteria for signing up).  There is also the potential to use the points for Virgin miles or a totally different Clubcard Boost deal such as Uber credit.

That said, 0.3 Avios per £1 is still not great unless you assume that there will be occasional conversion bonuses – and the nasty ’rounding down per transaction to nearest £8′ rule means that you will get less than 0.3 Avios in reality.  Full details are here.

HSBC Premier World Elite Mastercardas this article explains, this is an excellent product if you earn enough to qualify for HSBC Premier.  The high annual fee is offset, at least in Year 1, by a 40,000 Avios points sign-up bonus and 1 Avios per £1 spent.  The card also comes with airport lounge access via LoungeKey.  Similarly, the free HSBC Premier Mastercard is great – you earn 0.5 Avios per £1 on the Mastercard – but meeting the eligibility criteria is tough.

Avios credit cards that work for a niche market:

British Airways American Express – the free BA Amex has a decent (for a free card) rate of 1 Avios per £1. However, do not get this card if you are planning to spend the £20,000 required to earn the 2-4-1 voucher – this article explains why the free BA American Express card can be a bad deal.

The Platinum Card from American Express – you should seriously consider applying for this card. Don’t focus too much on the £575 fee, as it is refunded pro-rata if you cancel. Focus instead on the 30,000 Avios sign-up bonus, the Priority Pass for airline lounge access, Eurostar lounge access, the Marriott Bonvoy Gold card, Hilton Honors Gold, Shangri-La Jade, Melia Rewards Gold and the Radisson Rewards Gold cards.  Many people find that they end up keeping the card despite their initial intentions because of the value of the travel insurance, lounge access and other perks, such as £10 per month of Addison Lee taxi credit.

IHG Rewards Club Premium Mastercard – is it worth paying £99 per year for this card, earning 0.4 Avios per £1 (ie 2 IHG Rewards Club points), when the Tesco Mastercard is free and give 0.3 Avios?  Potentially yes, because if you put £10,000 through the card you also get a free night at any IHG hotel potentially worth £250+.  This covers all InterContinental, Crowne Plaza and Holiday Inn hotels globally.  Cardholders also receive IHG Platinum status.  The £99 fee for the first year is offset by the 20,000 IHG points you earn as a special sign-up bonus.

Starwood SPG American Express – the day-to-day earnings rate of 3 points (= 1 Avios) per £1 isn’t bad and you get the flexibility to convert to 40+ different airlines as well, of course, as using your points for Marriott hotels.  You also get an enhanced conversion rate of 1.25 Avios per £1 when you convert in chunks of 60,000 points.  The sign-up bonus is 30,000 points, which converts to 10,000 Avios.  The £75 annual fee is refunded pro-rata if you cancel.

Amex Rewards Credit Card – as I explain in this article, the ARCC card is an excellent option if you already have a Preferred Rewards Gold or Platinum Amex card and want to cancel it to avoid the annual fee.  Getting a free ARCC card will keep your Membership Rewards points alive and allow you to delay transferring them to an airline or hotel partner.

Cards which are not ‘best in class’ in terms of benefits:

IHG Rewards Club Mastercard – this card is OK if you want to earn IHG Rewards Club hotel points, but if your aim is to convert the points into Avios then you are better off with the free Tesco credit card (0.3 Avios per £1) than this one (0.2 Avios per £1).  The only trade offs are that you get IHG Gold status for having the card and the points you earn also count towards your IHG status renewal. There is a sign-up bonus of 2,000 Avios (10,000 IHG points) but that should not influence your decision on the long term value of the card.

Don’t forget that our directory of all UK airline and hotel credit cards can be found here.

PS. If you are a sole trader or run a small business, you may also want to check out the American Express Platinum Business Card, the American Express Gold Business Card and the Capital On Tap Mastercard (20,000 Avios sign-up bonus!).

(Want to earn more miles and points from credit cards?  Click here to visit our dedicated airline and hotel travel credit cards page or use the ‘Credit Cards Update’ link in the menu bar at the top of the page.)

Disclaimer: Head for Points is a journalistic website. Nothing here should be construed as financial advice, and it is your own responsibility to ensure that any product is right for your circumstances. Recommendations are based primarily on the ability to earn miles and points and do not consider interest rates, service levels or any impact on your credit history.  By recommending credit cards on this site, I am – technically – acting as a credit broker.  Robert Burgess, trading as Head for Points, is regulated and authorised by the Financial Conduct Authority to act as a credit broker.

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  1. Jessie says:

    Probably being stupid, but bit confused which cards you are referring to under the heading ‘cards with a specific best in class..’, for instance, what card are you talking about here: “– this card offers the most generous sign-up bonus for a free card. You receive 20,000 Amex points for signing up (=20,000 Avios) and there is no fee for Year 1 (£140 thereafter). You also receive two Lounge Club airport lounge passes among other benefits. This is the best Amex card for beginners to the miles and points hobby. Thanks!”

    • Anna says:

      The Amex gold MR credit card – it says this at the start of the paragraph.

      • callum says:

        If you’re using an adblocker it’s blank. The affiliate links (or links that look like them at least) have been blocked on this site for the last week or so by them.

        • Jessie says:

          It must be that! That’s so annoying, I can’t see any of the headings and can’t seem to remove the ad block. Thanks for clarifying.

  2. Mark says:

    O/T but hoping for some help! Have booked LHR – HKG using 2-4-1 voucher early next year, now looking to book between Hong Kong & Fiji. Can get flights on Cathay though I have no status and a bit confused by their economy structure: economy save means I can’t choose seats – but will I get seats together?

    I also have 75k points sitting in amex, so could transfer these to Asia miles, book economy flex and use them to upgrade? Unsure if 75k is enough to do this?

    • Andrew* says:

      You can book Cathay flights using Avios…

    • filipino_chino says:

      One of the weeks when i looked at doing this route, i found i could never get a flight to NAN, but i was only searching via BA, i am guessing as it’s a codeshare route.

      I am guessing you might have to create a Aisa Miles route account to do a dummy booking…

      I miss Fiji and if this works out reasonable, i might have to go back, otherwise it’s back to the Philippines (via a LCC from HKG).

    • HKG to NAN is codeshare flight with Fiji Airways, so not sure how good they are regarding seat allocation, but if all the pessagers are on the same booking, I would think it is likely you will be sitting together. Obviously, try to do OLCI as soon as it’s open to minimise the chance to be separated.

  3. O/T but credit card related.. I’ve noticed some websites have introduced a workaround to bypass the law that they can’t charge for credit card use. Tripsta for example, they offer a discount for using a debit card! So instead of ‘charging a fee’ to use a credit card, they are offering a discount to not use one! But they are effectively charging a customer extra to use a credit card!

    • John says:

      Curve is a debit card

    • Nick M says:

      I thought the wording was such that the method of payment shouldn’t make ANY difference to the price paid?

      • I’m not sure on the wording of the law? Just did a quick google search but only found stories talking about the law, not quoting it. Regardless, the intended purpose of the law was definitely to make it no more expensive to use a credit card, which this discount for a debit card certainly does!

    • Nick_c says:

      They are breaking the law then. You cannot vary the price according to the payment method. No surcharges. No discounts.

      There was a good thread about this on MSE when the law changed, and several of us did check the legislation.

      For example, Air France / KLM continue to charge for Amex, and that is legal – under French or Dutch law!

      • Mikeact says:

        But is it legal if you book AF/KL through their UK site ?

      • That’s not legal at all under French law!!!!!!

        • Londoner says:

          It is legal as the Revised Payment Service Directive only makes it illegal to charge for using two-party cards, i.e. cards issued by your bank to you.

          Tri-partite cards such as Amex are not covered by the legislation and can therefore legally incur fees when used.

          Most retailers have waived the fee for Amex as well though.

    • Nick says:

      They are not allowed to have a real or ‘pseudo’ charge. It’s probably just that no one’s complained/tested it yet! The only ‘legal’ way of doing it now is easyjet-style, i.e. have a (equally annoying) ‘booking fee’ that applies to everyone.

    • Memesweeper says:

      That might be within the rules if the prices shown on the website are inclusive of the fee, and they subsequently offer a discount at checkout. Advertising a price that is only available with a debit card is likely outside the rules.

    • Ah yes, the eternal battle between the market and the government.

  4. HSBC Premier World Elite MC sign up bonus is 40,000 HSBC points convertible to 20,000 Avios. You can get a further 40,000 HSBC points by spending £12K in the calendar year, paid on anniversary.

  5. Olly says:

    Does anyone know if I will get the sign up bonus again when I apply for the business Amex gold as a sole trader, when I already have the personal one?

    • Memesweeper says:

      Sorry, no, you must have had no MR earning account in your name for six months.

      • Olly says:

        Ok thank you

        • Roberto says:

          Not true…

          Well it might be, but I have got my 20K bonus both this year and a couple of years ago for taking out the Business Gold Card.
          Both times I have been contacted by a salesman from Amex Business Accounts who offered me the product and outlined that I would get the MR even though I had a personal MR account. The points arrived on both occasions in the business MR account and I transferred them out to (1) Avios and (2) Hilton with no fuss.

        • George says:

          In theory this is the case but in practice if you have separate logins and separate addresses (business address) you’ll get the bonus. It generates separate MR accounts which is mildly inconvenient but separate logins makes sense if employees handle finances etc.

  6. Memesweeper says:

    I realise the upgrade route from Amex Gold MR (charge card) to Platinum is gone. Is there a similar upgrade link from Gold Business to Platinum?

    • Alex W says:

      This is really gutting. I was going to apply for gold charge a couple of weeks ago for Mrs W but didn’t get round to it. I think I’ll get her a gold credit anyway and hope later in the year they will offer some kind of incentive to swap to platinum.

    • Alex G says:

      I just upgraded mine the other day (4th May),
      Try this link? (it’s what I used).

      • Rob Mc says:

        Was that the charge card or the credit card?

      • Alan says:

        I just phoned AMEX asking whether I could get 20,000 MR points for upgrading my gold charge card to platinum and was told that the offer was no longer available on my account. Bit disappointing as I was going to give it a go.
        Tempted to try the link anyway but a bit concerned I’ll be paying the fee for nowt.

        • Caleb says:

          What do you mean by “paying the fee for now”?

        • Genghis says:

          Erm – pay the fee but not receive a bonus?

        • Alan says:

          Yes. Nowt not now. I would pay the fee and not receive the 20,000 points bonus. The other benefits for the Platinum card aren’t really worth anything to me.

        • Alan says:

          OK, so I’ve signed up anyway and been approved. When does the spend start counting toward the £1000 requirement? Is it straightaway or only once the cards have been received?


        • Genghis says:

          Once your account page shows Plat

        • Alan says:

          That happened immediately, Genghis. The card number has changed from the gold card, which makes sense but I wasn’t expecting it. Presumably, despite that, my gold card will still work until the new cards arrive?


        • Genghis says:

          @Alan. Yes. And count towards the £1k spend.

        • Alan says:

          Thanks Genghis

        • Alex G says:

          @ Alan,

          Contrary to what Genghis has said, I just spoke to Amex on chat and they confirmed I have the 20k MR points for £1k spend in 3 months offer active on my account (and my online account is showing my new platinum card), but as I have not physically received the new silver card and made any purchases with it, that is why I am not seeing the spending target tracker on my account. (I have continued to make purchases with my old gold card in the interim) – Based on that, I would assume any purchases made on the gold card will not count.

          Here’s what he said:
          “As of now you have not made any transactions and which is why you do not see a spending meter…
          When you will start making transactions, you will automatically see that spending meter.”

        • Alan says:

          Thanks for the info Alex. To be honest, I reckon Genghis knows more about this than the AMEX call centre staff (given my experience over the weekend), but we will see. I will keep using my gold card but won’t pay for anything too big until my platinum card arrives. I’m pretty sure I have read on this blog before that people’s spend with their gold card counts (I think Rob also stated it at some point) but I will proceed with caution as we don’t typically spend a heck of a lot on cards but have some specific spending coming up that we want to use to meet the bonus spend requirement.

        • Alex G says:

          @ Alan

          I hope you and Ghengis are right ! It would be nice if the small stuff I have been having to buy since upgrading will count towards the bonus target. Will have to see I guess, I also don’t put too much faith in their chat support, but always save the conversations in case they tell me something which turns out to be incorrect later.

        • Alan says:

          Just curious but is it normal for all the MR points that you have accumulated with the Gold Card to disappear when your account gets upgraded to Platinum? I had 40,000 points that are no longer visible since the upgrade

        • Alan says:

          Ah. That’s disappointing then. Since I switched over I can find no record of my 40,000 points. I have tried live-chatting AMEX and was told that they would reappear when I activate my platinum card but I really don’t think live chat have a clue so not confident on that.
          Gonna be pretty miffed if I’ve lost these points.

        • Alan says:

          Ah, its OK, they are back. Sure enough, the guy on live chat didn’t know anything as I still haven’t received my new card.

      • ArianaGrande says:

        I upgraded few days ago and have received the card, however nowhere on ‘My account’ shows any progress towards the 20,000 MR points for £1000 spend?

    • George says:

      No, this doesn’t exist for Biz cards. Try calling / messaging, sometimes they offer 10k.

  7. Mike says:

    Rob, you missed the anniversary MR bonus on the Preferred Gold Card. As well as double points for non-sterling spend on this one and the HSBC Premier World Elite. Oh, and the extra MR point per pound spent on the Amex Travel website using the Platinum and Gold cards, and directly with airlines using the latter.

    (I’d also mention better paid fares for air travel using the Amex Travel site, saved me £1000 on my last booking compared to going direct with the airline, but this is down to my own personal experience, so YMMV. The FHR benefits are also noteworthy.)

    • Foreign spend is better on a 0% FX card than on Amex Gold, even with double points. Amex Travel benefit is rarely used. Could have dropped in the 10k bonus 🙂

      • Bill says:

        Are there still 0% fx avios earning cards now that Lloyds amex/Mc have been withdrawn?

      • What about, say, I use the gold card on cathay’s website to go on regional flights in Asia starting from HK.
        3x points from airline and forex spend, is it still justified to use the gold amex or a 0% forex card?

        • Genghis says:

          You sure the 2x benefit of “FX” and “airlines” stacks to make it 3x? Even if 3x, you’re still paying 1p / MR point. Perhaps to hit a sign up bonus I would do that but not for ongoing spend.

        • yeah I’m positive cause I’ve done it myself in the past.

        • Mike says:

          It does stack! I’ve also done it before and works every time.

          To echo Rob’s reply above, 0% fx cards may be better use of money. *Unless*, that is, your employer is paying for the ticket and you get the fx fees reimbursed.

          (Which, incidentally, is what I was trying to get at with my first comment!)

      • Nick_C says:

        I’ve booked a hotel in NYC this coming weekend using the Amex Travel site. Cheaper than and 5MRs per £ instead of 3. Very happy.

  8. Nick_c says:

    I’ve got the PRGC (charge card) and the “Companion” Gold Credit Card. (The secret one that Rob doesn’t cover).

    When I cancel the PRGC, do I have to cancel the companion credit card as well?

    • Yes. Sometimes the agent forgets and it stays live. However, it doesn’t benefit you either way now, since if you want a free Amex credit card to keep your MR points alive you can just get the Amex Rewards credit card.

      • Prabhas says:

        I’ve got the Gold Companion Card a a couple of days ago, however there isn’t a ‘Track Bar’ so to speak for the 5000 bonus MR points on £500 spend, should there be one? I’m referring to the tracking bar that’s on the PRGC that tells you how close you are to the target to achieve the bonus.

        • Roberto says:

          There is no “bar” with this card but just keep a eye on the spend.. And be prepared to have to chase your 5k. I have had 3 chat sessions with the (useless) New Delhi chat team and it still not sorted.

          I know I should just call but its my wifes card and its easier to chat to them than to get SWMBO to phone up. However if they dont appear in the next 2 weeks she just might have to..

        • Prabhas says:

          @Roberto, doesn’t sound promising! The Amex Live chat said that the bar would appear after the first transaction, however this doesn’t sound correct after reading your post, it’s strange they wouldn’t have the track bar even though they have it for the PRGC..

          Good Luck with the 5k, hope it goes through, I haven’t spend the £500 yet so will just have to wait.

        • MarkH says:

          No track bar when I recently had the plat companion card.
          Tracked it myself to avoid ‘wasting’ spend on it.

          Sounds like I was lucky with the bonus points – they posted a couple of days after hitting the £500

        • Craig says:

          Three chats didn’t work but one call to Brighton did. The 5000 appeared as a goodwill gesture but I’m not complaining.

    • Tony says:

      No. I still have Companion Card even though no Gold charge card.

      • Tony says:

        Just seen Rob’s reply. So maybe I got lucky with the agents, but I still have a Companion CC even though my Gold charge card is long gone.

        • mark2 says:

          Not sure that you have been lucky. Keeping the Companion CC prevents you from getting any MR sign up bonuses.

  9. Tom1 says:

    Lloyds Avios – I went in to the branch on Saturday morning and they said I could still apply in branch.
    I didn’t try, because I already have one, but will let you know my Dad’s experience when he tries this week.

    • Ok. The reader who tried failed so let’s see if that was a rogue branch.

      • Tom1 says:

        Successfully applied in branch this morning, was made to sit through two videos and even brought the branch manager in to shake hands!

  10. Tony says:

    Still Avios/Cards–related, but mildly tangential — the new Amex Gold Credit Card: is there any recent anecdotal info as to whether these cards similarly earn a bonus 3K MR for a supplementary card holder? Thanks.

  11. BriefsbearUK says:

    Thanks for the comprehensive overview. I have the Lloyds Avios card, and I’m currently based overseas with work. Thevcard works for me because of the no fee on overseas transactions, but I’m struggling to find any of the cards you listed in the article which offered this? Am I missing something? It doesn’t sound very promising regarding the future of the Lloyds card, so I need to start looking at options now I think.

    • Alex G says:

      Sadly I haven’t been able to find any UK 0% FX cards that offer any other substantial benefits (eg points) other than no foreign transaction fees… 🙁 I’m not sure they exist anymore.

      • Doug M says:

        I think saving around 3% is it’s own reward.

      • George says:

        There are a few 0.5% CB ones – my favourite is the Natwest Black. I had no end of problems with Lloyd’s and eventually gave up on them completely, at least Natwest’s CS is (fairly) reliable and consistent.

    • Doug M says:

      If you’re old enough there’s a SAGA one that has no FX fees, I think also the Post Office and Halifax offer version without FX. With no offence to HfP zero FX cards would be covered better by the likes of moneysavingexpert.

      • Bill says:

        That’s cos this site is dedicated to cards that earn points. The cards you listed can’t earn you avios hence why Rob never mentions them

        • Bill says:

          Oh yeah, I don’t disagree there. I personally have Tandem and Halifax Clarity cards but I understand why such cards wouldn’t get much coverage on this site as they are not travel reward cards

        • the_real_a says:

          I would be cautious of Tandem right now. I applied 2 months ago, with the application pending – saying a letter would be sent containing instruction to prove my identity. This still has not arrived, saying they overwhelmed right now and haven’t got around to sending it. Support is awful, taking several days to reply. They do not have enough staff to manage the product by all accounts.

      • Agreed

      • Alex G says:

        We have the Halifax clarity card, works really well for any non GBP spend as you can use it to withdraw cash and as long as you repay right away using the app (we also have a Halifax current account), you don’t pay anything in fees or interest.

    • Doug M says:

      I really hope the Lloyds Avios card lingers for existing holders. For me it represents exceptional value. Solo upgrade voucher, zero FX, 1.25 Avios on Amex, all for £24. I suppose that’s hard to sustain without charging the retailer.

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