Cabin crew war as BASSA (part of Unite) encourages BA to fire Mixed Fleet (part of Unite)

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• Paul says:

  11 Sep11 September 15:12

  Time for HfP to block the #BAbetrayal Google ads that keep appearing here?

  • Rob says:

    11 Sep11 September 15:17

    Not seen those for a while actually!

    • A350 says:

      11 Sep11 September 15:18

      Literally see a BA Betrayal ad above this post’s comments now Rob. If you can please remove the ghastly thing from your website lol!

  • Andrew says:

    11 Sep11 September 15:24

    It’s directly above this comment on my screen…

    • Lady London says:

      12 Sep12 September 09:27

      It stops appearing after a week or two.

      You can also click the small x usually top right, and tell Google you dont want to see it again.

• ChrisW says:

  11 Sep11 September 15:27

  If WW accepted a lower, more industry-standard pay deal then I think a last in, first out is a fair way to prioritise redundancies.

  This whole saga would make a great soap opera. Anyone remember the TV show Mile High?

  Remember when they merged the low cost crew with crew from a full service airline?

  • Rhys says:

    11 Sep11 September 15:36

    Ha – life imitates art!

  • Rob says:

    11 Sep11 September 16:23

    LIFO would be highly likely to fail an age discrimination lawsuit. It is different for pilots because BA can claim commercial value in keeping more experienced pilots on their books. You can’t claim that for any crew member who has been employed for more than a few months.

    • ChrisC says:

      11 Sep11 September 17:34

      I disagree.

      LIFO applies equally no matter your age (or sex) but when you joined the company.

      And an employment tribunal has ruled that is is not an irrational method even if it’s not the first choice.

      See this case for example.

      https://www.markellaw.co.uk/insights/can-employers-still-use-the-last-in-first-out-criterion-as-a-method-of-redundancy-selection/

      • HAM76 says:

        11 Sep11 September 18:29

        Yet the first paragraph already states: In most cases, it is not advisable for an employer to use “last in, first out” as the only criterion for selection if there are other factors that can be taken into account.

        Later the article makes clear that you have to look at the entire pool of employees who are at risk of being made redundant. BA has created two different pools here intentionally. Likely BA can use first in, first out for each pool and find a number of redundancies for each pool based on some objective criterion, but not across the entire company.

        • AJ says:

          11 Sep11 September 20:59

          LIFO would likely have failed a legal challenge as BA likes to keep pointing we are separate fleets on separate contracts. MF would have easily challenged it. They could have applied it to each fleet respectively but not across the board.

    • Ken says:

      11 Sep11 September 18:08

      It’s literally the first common selection method listed on the government redundancy help website.

      • HAM76 says:

        11 Sep11 September 18:22

        Which surely focuses on the more common case that employees are equally distributed across a company. However, with BA 100% of crew members hired in the past decade are mixed fleet, 0% are legacy crew. At least among those in their twenties there is age discrimination, because they face a higher risk of being laid off purely based on their age. There are no crew members in their twenties in legacy crews.

        • Ken says:

          11 Sep11 September 18:56

          It’s easy to over complicate it.

          LIFO is the worst option for BA, there is no chance they will implement it. Must be a decent slug of legacy crew that took redundancy. More to follow unless things improve quickly, and suddenly their bargaining power is pretty limited.
          Not great for them, but they have had a good innings.

• Anon says:

  11 Sep11 September 16:37

  Waterside is still open.

  • Rob says:

    11 Sep11 September 18:23

    I know – but there aren’t many people in it.

• Paul74 says:

  11 Sep11 September 16:54

  Very sorry to see that it has come to this. BA management the only winners if different sections of the cabin crew are publicly disagreeing.

• marcw says:

  11 Sep11 September 17:46

  This was always the problem with unite. You cannot defend the *same interests* of two groups that do the SAME job, but completely different pay scales.

  • Novice says:

    11 Sep11 September 18:05

    I agree@ MARCW.

    I think for the situation that airlines are in, BA has made sound decisions. And, it does shock me that Legacy crew who have had a good ride while it lasted would stoop so low but that’s humanKIND for you.

    • Josh says:

      11 Sep11 September 18:21

      Hmmm usually these posts are full of vociferous WW and EF BA employees slagging off the company. Suspiciously absent now…

      • marcw says:

        11 Sep11 September 18:47

        Of course… They realised (late) how embarrassing the Unite “theme-park show was”.

      • Lady London says:

        11 Sep11 September 20:19

        could all have taken the money and gone.

        I have no idea why such a rearguard action is being brought now. Are BASSA worried about loss of income from union dues of legacy employees?

        BA will not even entertain this. They have their victory. They will have just turned it over to their lawyers to ensure how “No” is presented will keep the company protected.

        BASSA is “having a laugh”

        • Ken says:

          11 Sep11 September 21:54

          Rather than a rearguard action, I think BASSA made the proposal at least a month ago, and it clearly suits someone to leak it and keep the division & mistrust going.
          As you rightly say, not a cat in hells chance that BA would agree

      • Goldmember says:

        11 Sep11 September 20:39

        With the greatest respect you’ve got no idea what’s going on behind the scenes. All you have are the sensationalist chinese whispers being reported here as the only hearsay. And before anyone points out their allegiance to all things Rob, I’m well aware this is a subscription free service and a I don’t have to read it.

        • Spursdebs says:

          12 Sep12 September 07:41

          I wonder how many would actually pay for a subscription, and without our “ clicks” doubt Rob could sell ad space, which I assume is how he makes his money. Not forgetting this site gets many of its articles from our comments. It’s a simpatico relationship.

        • Kevin says:

          12 Sep12 September 08:13

          Not sure what you are seeking to achieve here. The article clears shares part of the email sent out. Comments on Instagram from employees further supports this, as do many comments on Twitter from respected BA employees. Not sure you can simply brush this away as sensationalist Chinese whispers or hearsay.

• flying388 says:

  11 Sep11 September 19:46

  BASSA is the number one problem with BA – BASSA are solely focused on their legacy WW/EF members, and will quite happily sacrifice any or all of the rest of the cabin crew (MF), the paying public, or common sense survival of the airline that employs us or carries us around the world, to protect the agenda of their out of date leadership.

  I get that WW/EF colleagues have been horribly treated by BA and wish everything possible to keep as many as possible of them and as much as possible of their pay & terms but that is no excuse for the shameful way BASSA has treated MF as part of the problem rather than being on the same side.

  • Goldmember says:

    11 Sep11 September 20:46

    Shameful would be BASSA putting other people before their own members. BASSA are the union of EF/WW so it’s only fitting their angle will be towards the protection of its members. Perhaps the MF union could be more vocal in what it’s trying to achieve with its members.

    • Josh says:

      11 Sep11 September 21:31

      I see we have our EF/WW commentator….where are the rest?

      • Ken says:

        11 Sep11 September 21:46

        He has a valid point.
        BA have been desperate to get everyone on the same low T&Cs for more than a decade.
        But if you want to know why legacy crew (until now) have had it so good, or why say tube drivers are so well paid (when some lines could run without them), then it helps to belong to a militant, intransigent union who will fight tooth and nail.

        We may all not like it, and call them dinosaurs but if you were a union member who would you rather represent you in negotiations?
        It’s taken a pandemic to tame them.

        • Erico1875 says:

          11 Sep11 September 23:05

          Militant?
          Does that mean tryingto protect previously agreed T&Cs?
          I would suggest that the BA management are the militant in this case as they are the ones upsetting the status quo

        • Paul74 says:

          12 Sep12 September 01:36

          Agreed.

        • Michael says:

          12 Sep12 September 14:36

          Spot on re the unions. Im amazed the legacy crews have lasted as long especially the pre 97 contracts…

      • Goldmember says:

        12 Sep12 September 00:05

        lol oh please!
        I’m not commentating anything other than if I was a member of BASSA, my expectation would be their allegiance towards me because I pay them my subs each month and not to another group of employees who don’t. The only muddying here is that both BASSA and MFU are both part of Unite.

• R says:

  11 Sep11 September 21:37

  The recent BASSA email has basically declared war on Mixed Fleet – they will do anything to protect legacy, improve their pay and terms, even at the detriment of Mixed Fleet

  Shameful.

  • Erico1875 says:

    11 Sep11 September 23:09

    Thats their job.
    Protect their members

  • Goldmember says:

    12 Sep12 September 00:27

    It’s not shameful at all. BASSA have been particularly reticent throughout the recent redundancy negotiations. I’d have been annoyed had I been a paid up member that they weren’t being more vocal or enticing at the negotiation table. Doing their members a disservice in the process. What you need to remember is MF/EF/WW have now gone. They are one crew base regardless as to how they got there. WW/EF who survived and retained employment (rightly or wrongly) stand to lose the most financially and in conditions. BASSA are currently still negotiating hard for its members from WW/EF on the finer details so all the time they’re talking and enhancing their members renumeration, their members are now getting exactly what they paid for. Where are MFU at for their members? Indeed is there anything they can negotiate on because on the most part they’ve not really lost anything.

    • BassaSnake says:

      13 Sep13 September 06:03

      MF didn’t have a wage to lose. They are already on the bare minimum so would have been impossible to make them lose any more.
      Also are you forgetting a lot of the supervisors and managers on MF who have been forcibly demoted back down to main crew? That’s at least a £3000 pay cut alone.
      What a toxic environment I really feel for MF at this time. Legacy have had their fun, it’s time to leave now. Most are overweight and miserable anyway. Only staying for the money. At least MF have some passion.

      • Andy says:

        13 Sep13 September 17:49

        MF need passion as they lack polish, experience, time keeping and class. If you don’t mind easy jet service in a BA uniform you’ll be fine.

        If you expect the BA service of old then you’ll need to fly with someone else.

        If spilled drinks, talking to each other across passengers, hours to get a meal service out on a night flight, rookies in First and forgotten meal orders are your bag then you should be right at home

        • BASSASNAKE says:

          14 Sep14 September 14:26

          I completely disagree. You are aware that more than half have came from other airlines and have years of experience prior to MF, some the same amount as legacy?
          I don’t know what flights you have been on, I am a frequent flyer and have received top class service every time from MF.

        • Andy says:

          14 Sep14 September 17:15

          Yes some come from other airlines TUI straight into BA First on their first flight earlier this year is one example but it doesn’t mean they aren’t completely out of their depth.
          “Years of experience” where in the Easyjet or Ryannair bun fight flights maybe

          If you actually are a frequent flyer in premium cabins you would have seen and known the difference I related to in the first post. You certainly wouldn’t be saying top class everytime unless you are hosting a different agenda, family on mixed fleet by any chance?

          It often would only take the first ten minutes on a flight to see the difference, even when the hats were a giveaway. why do you think they made hats compulsory across the fleets? To hide the initial first clue at least.

        • BASSASNAKE says:

          14 Sep14 September 18:38

          A lot of them come from Virgin, Emirates and Etihad where standards are extremely high.
          Plus, working at Ryanair/EasyJet is renowned for being a lot harder than working for BA. It has been ingrained in them from their very first flights with their ex airlines to work harder than legacy ever have so I don’t really see your point. Eg cleaning aircraft on turnaround, moving catering from one aircraft to another, no breaks during a 14 hour day, 7 day blocks with 2 days off, minimum rest.. the list goes on. I don’t think your beloved legacy crew have ever experienced a days hard work with their long lay overs and 33% contracts.
          I’ve said top class once, because that I believe they are. Yes, I can tell the difference. Legacy don’t want to be there, rolling their eyes every time you ask them for something and extremely complacent when it comes to safety.
          I guess we will agree to disagree here Andy, clearly you don’t know what you’re talking about.

        • Andy says:

          16 Sep16 September 19:53

          I most certainly do know what I’m talking about, thats why I can see straight through your posts. There is such a degree of bitterness, anger and envy in your posts towards legacy as I said in the previous posts, you are either MF or related to someone on MF. Your rose tinted view to their lack of ability probably down to a staff ticket upgrade. If you were a true frequent flyer in First or Business we wouldn’t be having this debate. The difference has always been massive. On the odd occassion, down the back they are fine, thats their level, move up the cabins and it all falls apart, “rabbits in headlights” springs to mind.

          I wasn’t talking about level of hard work, I was talking about quality of service from the passenger perspective. What premium passengers give a hoot who cleans the plane, how many days off the crew get or all your other gripes. My perspective was from the premium passenger stand point yours is so obviously from the crews, not the frequent flyer you profess to be

          The days on to days off ratio was in their/your contract, if you don’t like it get another job, you might have to soon anyway.

          If they don’t like there

• S says:

  12 Sep12 September 02:55

  Reason #17363717274 why I can’t stand trade unions and unionists right here.

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