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  • Cranzle 279 posts

    Rules intended to fight crime that are being hidden behind by finance providers in order to take actions with impunity, that abuse individual consumers.

    Absolutely this.

    From what I’ve read generally about the Amex terminations, it’s very much a spreadsheet exercise. Not profitable, doesn’t fit risk profile, they are trying to get their customer profile to fit something and need to terminate accounts in order to achieve this.

    BBbetter 773 posts

    From what I’ve read generally about the Amex terminations, it’s very much a spreadsheet exercise. Not profitable, doesn’t fit risk profile, they are trying to get their customer profile to fit something and need to terminate accounts in order to achieve this.

    Is that an issue? If I was running a business, I’d avoid customers where I lose money constantly.

    Cranzle 279 posts

    From what I’ve read generally about the Amex terminations, it’s very much a spreadsheet exercise. Not profitable, doesn’t fit risk profile, they are trying to get their customer profile to fit something and need to terminate accounts in order to achieve this.

    Is that an issue? If I was running a business, I’d avoid customers where I lose money constantly.

    I didn’t infer that it’s an issue.

    More of a reassurance to those that are concerned that they may be unknowingly involved in some complex financial fraud.

    Would you also terminate accounts with the highest number of membership rewards because your terms allowed it? That would boost your profitability.

    JDB 4,649 posts

    I am so sorry about what happened to you, I would recommend you to email straight to the CEO after you have your evidence/stance ready.

    Did that previously and they will start the investigation. There is a investigation team in Brighton work for the exec.

    steve.squeri@aexp.com

    You recommend writing to the group CEO and others have have also suggested making a formal complaint, but what are you suggesting should be the substance of that complaint? Amex has a statutory right to close anyone’s account and can choose who it does business with. They can’t close your account in breach of terms or unfairly – but is that alleged here?

    You refer to having “evidence/stance” ready – what does that mean, what evidence can the cardholder offer than Amex doesn’t already have and why would it change anything? Amex won’t be carrying out any “investigation” of their own decision.

    Complaints in regulated financial services can be very effective, but you need to have a basis for a complaint rather than just challenging a decision you don’t like which serves little purpose and won’t get even nominal compensation.

    Metty 86 posts

    @Metty I really feel for you, not knowing why would be driving me bonkers. Not the same level I know but I recently applied for interest free credit to buy a new iPhone and was declined, this was Barclays Partner Finance which I believe is Clydesdale. I’ve been using this process for years, never missed a payment. I also recently tried the eligibility checker for the Avios Barclaycard and was given 0%.

    Oh dear, I had the same a few years back with the Virgin MC application – subsequently fixed by Rob/HfP – and felt affronted as it was a reminder that I was now just too old and boring. BTW hope that you’re recovering ok from the op.

    We’ve already had recurring payments declined; I hadn’t realised how much we’re reliant on Amex so will spend the day changing payments over. Most serious issue so far was Metty Jr having a decline in the McDonalds drive through queue.

    I can’t imagine I’ll get a useful reply from Amex complaints, the CEO or the investigations people but I’m really hoping one of them finish with the cut n paste ‘thanks for being a valued member since 1992’ 🙂

    strickers 723 posts

    @Metty Thanks, first two weeks with no bending and just pottering round the house. Not in pain though which is good and the swelling has almost gone. Real work starts Wednesday after physio, 30 degrees of movement allowed from then, hopefully start to get out of the house a bit too. Spending most of my time figuring out where to go for a week when I’m well enough to travel so as to keep my IHG Diamond and lounge access for next year!

    scholar wong 46 posts

    @metty – Have you considered doing a “Farage” and making a SAR for personal information they hold on you, it might be the best route to finding out what out the rationale for closing down your accounts.

    Lady London 2,141 posts

    From what I’ve read generally about the Amex terminations, it’s very much a spreadsheet exercise. Not profitable, doesn’t fit risk profile, they are trying to get their customer profile to fit something and need to terminate accounts in order to achieve this.

    Is that an issue? If I was running a business, I’d avoid customers where I lose money constantly.

    Of course Amex has the right to make decisions including if they decide to pursue different aims or use new tools.

    However they should execute any decision in a fair and reasonable manner and they failed to do this.

    We’ll draw our own conclusioms about how much weight 30 years of loyalty and no issues in that time, counts for in the new algorithm of Amex.

    JDB 4,649 posts

    @LadyLondon – your view and my view of ‘fair’ is very different to the threshold of ‘fair’ from a regulatory perspective.

    Doug9x 10 posts

    As posted above could be a factor – I pay p2s balance from my own bank acc and p2 received a call threatening to close p2 account if it happens again (this was warning #1).

    BBbetter 773 posts

    We’ll draw our own conclusioms about how much weight 30 years of loyalty and no issues in that time, counts for in the new algorithm of Amex.

    If there’s one thing made clear from the retention threads, it is that loyalty counts for zero.

    yorkshireRich 220 posts

    We’ll draw our own conclusioms about how much weight 30 years of loyalty and no issues in that time, counts for in the new algorithm of Amex.

    If there’s one thing made clear from the retention threads, it is that loyalty counts for zero.

    Indeed it does. Hence why most of us on here like to gain as much as possible.

    We all have our own stories on loyalty, and I know I’m going O/t here but I remember a a few years ago I called Virgin Media and spoke on behalf of my father in Law. They knocked 20 pound off a month straight away but then wouldn’t budge from that. The caller got quite angry with me and said “if we could offer more we would have, are you going to take this offer or not”. I stated that it was funny how they didn’t offer a reduction for the last five years but could knock 250 pound off a year just like that.

    Anyway on cancellation day, they knocked another 30 pound off per month.

    I fully understand companies can have who they want as customers but it can’t just be me who thinks some of there employees go down the lines that we should take pity on them due to rising costs bla bla.

    Going back on topic. Please keep us updated.

    Cranzle 279 posts

    I am so sorry about what happened to you, I would recommend you to email straight to the CEO after you have your evidence/stance ready.

    Did that previously and they will start the investigation. There is a investigation team in Brighton work for the exec.

    steve.squeri@aexp.com

    You recommend writing to the group CEO and others have have also suggested making a formal complaint, but what are you suggesting should be the substance of that complaint? Amex has a statutory right to close anyone’s account and can choose who it does business with. They can’t close your account in breach of terms or unfairly – but is that alleged here?

    You refer to having “evidence/stance” ready – what does that mean, what evidence can the cardholder offer than Amex doesn’t already have and why would it change anything? Amex won’t be carrying out any “investigation” of their own decision.

    Complaints in regulated financial services can be very effective, but you need to have a basis for a complaint rather than just challenging a decision you don’t like which serves little purpose and won’t get even nominal compensation.

    Just because they have the statutory right to do something, doesn’t mean customers should not express their displeasure with the way they’ve been treated. If, for example, a customer has spent decades saving MR for a once in a lifetime experience, losing those adds salt to the wound of being summarily dismissed by Amex. It’s not necessary to handle things in this manner and senior management should know it, even if that’s through a formal complain. There have been reports of decisions being reversed once senior management have been contacted.

    JDB 4,649 posts

    @Cranzle – well it sounds to me like Violet Elizabeth in the Just William books. One can scream and scream until one’s sick. The fact is they absolutely don’t care and actually even less so at the senior management level. I have to say I have never heard or read of any account closure (as opposed to suspension) being reversed. In any event, once I had been treated like the OP, I would just tell Amex to bog off. Why have anything to do with people who treat you like that?

    I fully expect to have my accounts closed by them one day because I constantly rail about Amex’s unfair treatment of long term loyal customers who are expected to pay for the players. I will be quite pleased to get off the Amex treadmill and my wife will be utterly delighted.

    It’s not difficult to see why Amex UK is f(l)ailing. The ‘senior’ management in whom you are placing so much faith are singularly unimpressive but I would wager they they could beat most people at buzzword bingo.

    Super Secret Stuff 365 posts

    I’d personally do a SAR before jumping to conclusions. You can sometimes find out interesting things they don’t want to talk to you about, worth a shot

    Metty 86 posts

    As posted above could be a factor – I pay p2s balance from my own bank acc and p2 received a call threatening to close p2 account if it happens again (this was warning #1).

    I too wonder if there’s something in this. Since Amex changed to the new payment screen where it takes you to your bank and you approve in your bank’s App, as we have a joint bank a/c I’m wondering whether Amex think that it’s the same person paying off all our cards. Wife’s name comes first on the joint a/c name. Appropriate as she’s the one doing most of the spending on biscuits. I’m thinking that good old AI has red flagged me, it’s just what/how.

    Reading back, the suggestion that I may have been using my Amex for gambling, crypto or drug purchases is a good challenge. No, unless you’re from North America in which case the answer is yes to drugs, the obvious meds consistent with being in our 60s 🙂

    ns 41 posts

    @Metty I’m so sorry to hear about your predicament. It seems deeply unfair and a denial of natural justice not to be told the reasons. I wonder if the joint account issue is correct though – Amex expressly allows payments from joint accounts as mentioned on its website:

    https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/customer-service/how-to-make-payment.html

    Rob
    HfP Staff
    2,301 posts

    Amex has made it VERY clear that if you do not settle your bill from a bank account in your name then it will be closed. I got the letter myself (well, my wife did) because I pay her account for her – to be fair, I do all the spending on it too!

    HampshireHog 138 posts

    I’m starting to believe more and more that regulation is needed.

    Really? Did you just say that?? You won’t find a more regulated area. Now if you were saying this about industries such as gas and electricity, where regulation is a complete joke, then I would agree…and by the way, hanging your dirty washing out in public is never an advisable thing to do.

    It’s the over zealous compliance to ill thought out regulation that’s the problem I believe. Lawmakers need to take another look at the monster they’ve created with much more focus on consumer rights

    redethernet1 86 posts

    There are dark ways around this with bendy

    Paul 144 posts

    While accepting that Amex have the right to cancel the cards and drop their customers I think it is outrageous that they are not required to provide a full explanation for their decision. The frustration and inconvenience that is suffered is one thing, but the worry and stress of not knowing why is something altogether different. Frankly this type of thing terrifies me.

    Lady London 2,141 posts

    I honestly think Amex has gone bonkers.

    I am finally coming round to thinking as BBbetter says – rip them off on signup bonuses as much as you can, whereas my feeling on this to date is you just shouldn’t as it’s not the right thing to do even if you can.

    But now I’d say go for it because as a few posters have said here, now they don’t know when Amex is going to suddenly come for them too and cut off their own cards for nothing.

    Let’s eat drink and be merry – Vanitas before it all goes to pot as this can’t last. Amex must be in a spiral falling to earth – why else should they offer such signup bonuses? Who do they want as customers?

    Harrier25 892 posts

    There are dark ways around this with bendy

    Not really. You’ll still be at risk of closure paying off your Amex balance with a Curve card in someone else’s name.

    JDB 4,649 posts

    There are dark ways around this with bendy

    Not really. You’ll still be at risk of closure paying off your Amex balance with a Curve card in someone else’s name.

    It seems rather cavalier to pay off one’s Amex bill even with a Curve card in one’s own name.

    jj 534 posts

    Yet the head of Amex UK remarked just 2 days ago in this puff piece on the ‘importance of authenticity’…

    https://www.raconteur.net/leadership/ceo-on-the-spot-10-questions-with-american-expresss-hannah-lewis

    I don’t know much about Raconteur, so it’s possible that she is playing to an audience in the things she says. I hope so. The alternative, that this genuinely represents what she thinks, would be too terrifying for me to contemplate in the CEO of a major financial institution.

    In her world, a good CEO has a vision, communicates it, empowers a team, and removes barriers. Deep industry expertise doesn’t get a look-in. It doesn’t matter if the vision is wise, so long as it’s communicated and delivered. Choosing and building a team isn’t mentioned. Delivering financial success for shareholders is beneath her. Plenty of failed Apprentice candidates meet Hannah’s definition of a great leader.

    And, in hiring, she wants diversity, and she wants strong personalities with integrity, curiosity, hunger and confidence. What about competence? Track record? Expertise? Skill? Judgement? Not so much.

    Wow. Didn’t she notice that almost all the world;s most successful businesses are run by experts? And attempts to parachute in a confident generalist with hunger and communication skills (John Lewis, I’m looking at you) rarely end well.

    No wonder Amex is a mess.

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