Amex has cancelled all my cards!

[TGLoyalty]

JDB wrote:

SteveJ wrote:

JDB wrote:

Amex isn’t going after pensioners/retired people at all

And you know this how?

a) because I talk to Amex and other industry players all the time and b) it would be unlawful

Neither of which stops companies doing things.

What they say and do = two different thing and unlawful 🤣 they probably think “prove it”

[Skywalker]

Sadly not everyone’s moral compass points in the same direction as yours @JDB and some of their moral compasses stopped working a very long time ago!

Companies unfortunately do do unlawful things to their customers, and even to their staff.

[HampshireHog]

Skywalker wrote:

Sadly not everyone’s moral compass points in the same direction as yours @JDB and some of their moral compasses stopped working a very long time ago!

Companies unfortunately do do unlawful things to their customers, and even to their staff.

I think we only have to look at the news on Thames Water to make the mildest observation that companies have run rings round regulators ofwat caa and so on and whilst I respect those consumers with a moral compass, sadly you’ll just get shafted. Exploit the so and so’s and exit. With due regard to JDB and his sympathisers of which I used to be one I’ve sadly come to the conclusion that you need y to play them at their own game. I was binned by Creation having done nothing wrong, I may well have played the game like many others, hey Ho.

[Harrier25]

Bad comparison though because Ofwat along with Ofgem are both completely incompetent and both are in need of reform desperately.

[davidl]

I’ve been trolled on HFP before.

Let’s be clear. Amex now have loads of rules, loyalty means nothing, and you do anything to offend them you are out.

MR points are one thing. Having a life where you don’t have so much stress is worth more.

Lived Amex for 24 years. Couldn’t care for it now. You pay a fee in exchange for what you hope is more back. But its not always that easy.

As I posted a few days back. Life seems easier without an Amex card

[Metty]

To close this saga, I’ve had the response to the Amex investigation this afternoon. As predicted, I’m being cancelled and they won’t tell me why.

“Thank you for your email addressed to Steve Squeri at American Express®, and for speaking to me previously. As discussed your concerns regarding the recent communication you received advising your account is due to be cancelled, have been referred to me for investigation and response.

I would like to start by thanking you for taking the time to send me an email detailing your recent review, and why you believe your account should not be cancelled.

After liaising with our Specialist Department handling the cancellation, I can confirm that the correct procedures have been followed following an internal review. Unfortunately, I trust you understand that we are not in a position to provide any further information in regard to our internal guidelines and processes. Please be aware that your accounts ending <edited out> will be cancelled as of 21st May 2024.

Whilst I appreciate the frustration you expressed to me, be assured that the cancellation has been actioned in line with the Terms and Conditions of your account. Specifically please refer to ‘Ending your agreement’ which states, “This agreement is open ended and has no fixed duration. You and we can end it without giving any reason.”

Considering the information presented to me, I am not in a position to uphold your complaint, nevertheless, I would like to thank you for your patience whilst this matter was being investigated.”

It’s a shame that they can’t tell me anything. They actually gave my son more information when he rang them when his card (on which I’m a supplementary) didn’t work, saying ‘I’m looking at your Dad’s account now and it’s definitely not anything to do with fraud, it was a decision taken by the Head of Amex UK personally’. Very odd.

I did ask on Chat how my progress towards the Tier Points challenge was going and got the response that I’d spent £20842 and got 150 Tier Points so far; the Avios have been swept to my BAEC account but the Tier Points have not. As I’m still struggling to think of any reason for Amex to cancel me I still wonder if they simply think I cost them more than they get out of me.

The rest of the family’s accounts on which I was a supplementary are all still blocked; Amex haven’t notified them of this at all. At least they emailed me regarding mine.

Thanks to all on here for being sympathetic and helpful. Time for a beer….

[strickers]

Sorry to hear this @Metty. you probably should remove your surname and case reference from above.

[Metty]

strickers wrote:

Sorry to hear this @Metty. you probably should remove your surname and case reference from above.

Thanks @strickers, I don’t have any Edit option on the post on any device so I can’t edit. I’m not too worried as I have nothing to hide.

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

Metty wrote:

I did ask on Chat how my progress towards the Tier Points challenge was going and got the response that I’d spent £20842 and got 150 Tier Points so far; the Avios have been swept to my BAEC account but the Tier Points have not.

The TP should be awarded in a couple of days or so. AMEX sends BA a separate notification (I think of 1000 avios) that BA will then translate to TPs but it doesn’t appear to be an automated system.

As to editing posts we all have 5 minutes to edit a post after initial posting.

For further editing you need to email Rob/ Rhys at the “hello” email address at thr bottom of the page.

You may not care but your name and case reference are visible and bad actors could use those to cause more problems for you with AMEX.

[Metty]

BA Flyer IHG Stayer wrote:

For further editing you need to email Rob/ Rhys at the “hello” email address at thr bottom of the page.

Thanks, didn’t know we could do that!

[Rui N.]

Time to go for the Daily Mail or the likes now.
That your family accounts were blocked because you are a supp on their cards is quite disgusting really.

[Lady London]

It’s a cut and paste form letter.

There has been no addition of any humanity. They don’t dare. Because to keep hiding behind rules that are intended to protect finance industry providers from criminals, so as not to provide a fair reason for termination, in practice without the contractual notice, when you as a cardholder clearly have not done anything that could be criminal, Amex can’t say anything human to you like:-

“Thank you for being a loyal customer who paid Amex in full on time loyally every month for over 30 years”.

I think the comments of several posters upthread should be heeded as regards any planning for a future with Amex.

I can’t see Amex’s business in the UK continuing for too much longer. You mustn’t get old with Amex no matter how reliable a pension you’ve got. Amex won’t want you even after over 30 years of paying all your bills each month on time. But you can be an overdrinking party animal, a Billy-Bunter-like slob, or a childlike 23 year old for whom some type of Daddy must be paying your £700 a year Amex Plat fees and your monthly bills… because you’d be so recently out of uni a credit check on you would fail for many cards…. If you’re one of those, Amex wants you. For now.

No wonder Amex’s signup bonuses are ridiculous – how can this make sense? Logic says “grab everything off them you can while you can. Because one day Amex will come for you too”. How distasteful a way to behave. On both sides.

[JDB]

Rui N. wrote:

Time to go for the Daily Mail or the likes now.
That your family accounts were blocked because you are a supp on their cards is quite disgusting really.

Why would the Daily Mail have any interest in this story? Amex closes thousands of accounts every year and while the majority of those relate to bad debts, many are just people they no longer wish to have as cardholders. Barclaycard closes proportionately more accounts. It seems very unfair on the victims of such apparently random closures, but the law has allowed this for the last fifty years, so unfortunately it’s just business as usual. The idea that Amex has some sort of issue with pensioners or targets pensioners in any way is totally risible.

[can2]

“it was a decision taken by the Head of Amex UK personally”

—- Has she made any right decisions so far?

[can2]

JDB wrote:

Rui N. wrote:

Time to go for the Daily Mail or the likes now.
That your family accounts were blocked because you are a supp on their cards is quite disgusting really.

Why would the Daily Mail have any interest in this story? Amex closes thousands of accounts every year and while the majority of those relate to bad debts, many are just people they no longer wish to have as cardholders. Barclaycard closes proportionately more accounts. It seems very unfair on the victims of such apparently random closures, but the law has allowed this for the last fifty years, so unfortunately it’s just business as usual. The idea that Amex has some sort of issue with pensioners or targets pensioners in any way is totally risible.

The problem is not the account closure @JDB, it is the opaqueness regarding the “epistemics”.
A client would like to know what happened and why this decision has been taken, and it is only natural. I don’t think anyone has claimed that Amex have behaved illegally.
They however acted very unethically by resorting to mysticism of legal lingo and contractual law.
And worse, they did not have to. Why would they allow people to conspire how arbitrary their decision procedure is? It is not a good colour on them, I think.

[NorthernLass]

So genuinely out of interest, what is it that makes Amex stop wanting someone as a customer if they are law-abiding and pay their bills?

[can2]

NorthernLass wrote:

So genuinely out of interest, what is it that makes Amex stop wanting someone as a customer if they are law-abiding and pay their bills?

That’s the million dollar question. They don’t have to say. And we can put the pieces together in thousands different ways.

I know of cases elsewhere where such decisions by financial institutions, which can affect a law abiding individual’s future credit worthiness, are subject to much scrutiny.

To me, it is similar to “no fault evictions”. Landlords do not have to give any reason not to renew their leases, but this system favours the landlords not tenants. That’s why some push for outlawing no fault evictions.

[JDB]

NorthernLass wrote:

So genuinely out of interest, what is it that makes Amex stop wanting someone as a customer if they are law-abiding and pay their bills?

There are many facets to your question, but I think your definition of “law abiding” and Amex’s are probably rather different and they generally take people paying their statements as a given, so it’s just one part of extending unsecured credit to someone.

Amex is entitled to close accounts on a whim and it is currently trying to reduce its credit book, but when it does so because you are an unprofitable customer and likely to remain so, it prefers to cover its position with a more justifiable reason, so if a cardholder has indulged in any sort of fringe activities, Amex then has something to provide confidentially to the FOS/FCA if challenged. This might include minor or technical breaches of terms, payments from the wrong account, payments via Curve, excess PayPal or other cash type transactions, gaming offers, unusual transactions, excess SUBs/retentions all of which Amex tolerates until it doesn’t.

Amex pays particular attention to National Hunter and other data sources including The Gazette which it checks daily.

Nobody conducting their card account and their affairs generally in good faith need have anything to worry about.

[Guernsey Globetrotter]

NorthernLass wrote:

So genuinely out of interest, what is it that makes Amex stop wanting someone as a customer if they are law-abiding and pay their bills?

You speak the question that the majority of us here are wondering @NorthernLass …

Normally I am inclined to apply Occam’s razor but in situations involving corporate logic perhaps we should default to Hanlon’s. No use trying to make sense of the nonsensical.

@Metty gutted and frustrated for you in equal measures but in no way surprised 🙁

[Metty]

Again, thanks for the comments and appreciation that it’s as simple as not knowing what I have done. Whilst I have been seen in Sainsbury’s with two scanners shopping for different family members, I don’t think I’m anywhere near the extremes of those on here who really game this game.

@JDB To say that ‘Nobody conducting their card account and their affairs generally in good faith need have anything to worry about’ is an utterly ridiculous statement as that’s precisely what has happened to me.

I’ll get my coat.

[mkdoc]

Feel for you metty. Similar happened to me, with no communication whatsoever. Made me feel awful. I don’t understand why they treat customers like this. If you want to see a bank statement let me know and I’ll send it. This is all they wanted, and were happy with the evidence submitted. Embarrassing trying to use my card and kept getting declined. Why not call me or send a message, or keep the account open pending the evidence

[simonbarker]

Just discovered and read through all of this thread, as a new Amex customer (8 months now) it’s been an interesting read.

@Metty what a frustrating situation and I can only imagine the sour taste it all leaves.

I think this is likely a “change of circumstances” cancellation handled very poorly by Amex. Likely the retirement aspect was unearthed by an automated system, an algorithm flagged your account for bulk review and then the head of whatever it was decided that “yes, let’s cancel that spreadsheet of people” in a review meeting.

They won’t tell you anything because people have learned over the years that sharing information is usually only downside for the company they work for – which has the effect of making the whole processed very dehumanised.

A question about this line many people have said: “cancelling accounts they don’t make money from” this implies making money from customer unpaid balance interest.

My knowledge is limited here but given the ludicrous interest rates on these cards (and that Amex send you quite a few notifications as your balance due date approaches) do they really make money from consumer interest? I’ve always assumed it’s the merchant fee, interest on the cash they hold before paying out to merchants and other financial wizardy further down the chain that makes them money.

Are there really people letting interest build up on an Amex balance?

[BBbetter]

simonbarker wrote:

I think this is likely a “change of circumstances” cancellation handled very poorly by Amex. Likely the retirement aspect was unearthed by an automated system, an algorithm flagged your account for bulk review and then the head of whatever it was decided that “yes, let’s cancel that spreadsheet of people” in a review meeting.

This is most likely what happened. Obviously we can all speculate until OP gets a copy of the SAR.

Don’t think OP ever explained how he spent 20k in a couple of months to get tier points, even though on a substantially reduced’ income, other than vaguely saying ‘booked hotels for friends’.
Maybe Amex thought he has started a travel agency and is putting through customer bookings on his personal card.

[HampshireHog]

Metty wrote:

Again, thanks for the comments and appreciation that it’s as simple as not knowing what I have done. Whilst I have been seen in Sainsbury’s with two scanners shopping for different family members, I don’t think I’m anywhere near the extremes of those on here who really game this game.

@JDB To say that ‘Nobody conducting their card account and their affairs generally in good faith need have anything to worry about’ is an utterly ridiculous statement as that’s precisely what has happened to me.

I’ll get my coat.

Agreed and I’m sorry for you and worried for all us basically honest folk who unlike JDB have perhaps inadvertently driven at 31 mph in a 30 zone or had a tissue fall out of their pocket and technically littered or not proactively told every financial organisation we deal with of every minor change in our circumstances!
Oh and perhaps pertinently I had the inconvenience/embarrassment of failing a random check on the smart scan lane at Sainsbury’s last night and having to endure the indignity of an unload and full re checkout, a pesky sweet potato label hadn’t scanned. Should I be worried about being dumped by Nectar on JDBs logic?

[JDB]

Metty wrote:

Again, thanks for the comments and appreciation that it’s as simple as not knowing what I have done. Whilst I have been seen in Sainsbury’s with two scanners shopping for different family members, I don’t think I’m anywhere near the extremes of those on here who really game this game.

@JDB To say that ‘Nobody conducting their card account and their affairs generally in good faith need have anything to worry about’ is an utterly ridiculous statement as that’s precisely what has happened to me.

I’ll get my coat.

@Metty – I have read this thread very carefully since you first posted two weeks ago as it’s an area of particular interest that I help people with.

Contrary to the fatuous comments above by another poster, you have revealed various things piecemeal which go to explain why Amex may have acted and perhaps there were other triggers.

You mention cancelling a Platinum account with no retention in December, you refer to a dozen BA cancellations/refunds, racing to spend £25k for the TP with transactions you yourself describe as outside your normal pattern (and fitting into an MS pattern) of quantum and type, you have too many supplementary cards so six in total and maybe paying from the joint account from the wrong name – the recipient will usually see the name of the payer whichever order shows on the account name. There is also the possibility that Amex has received external information that is unduly at variance with what they know.