Forums › Payment cards › American Express › Amex Platinum minimum income?
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It is not fraud, no more so than it is con by Amex to suggest you can apply for the Platinum card but not disclose there is a income minimum requirement..
It *is* fraud to declare a fake amount of income to amex that you don’t reasonable expect in that year.
It is one thing to be unexpected kicked from a job this the income was wrong to say and another to completely lie.
I am not suggesting a fake amount and I am suggesting this would fall under other income not salary, that is legitimate. One can rent a room and that income is tax free up to a limit, given the original posters income that would be sufficient. One could have investment income.
A dividend can be paid based on expected profits after tax perhaps based on forecast and previous year retained profits, were there to be an unexpected shortfall the dividend would likely move to a DL account but keep it under 10k and would need to be repaid but for the purposes of income it is legitimate.I am not suggesting to declare a fake amount but a (in your words) reasonable amount and how it can be justified. Not everyones income is based on a salary paid by their employer, and even if it were that doesn’t preclude the additional income one could obtain by letting a room in their home.
That’s for the US market not UK.
That’s true an lazy of me but there wasn’t much similar for the UK but it is broadly similar criteria as the requirements say Virgin look at https://uk.virginmoney.com/virgin/downloads/income-and-expenditure-form.pdf
That’s for the US market not UK.
That’s true an lazy of me but there wasn’t much similar for the UK but it is broadly similar criteria as the requirements say Virgin look at https://uk.virginmoney.com/virgin/downloads/income-and-expenditure-form.pdf
@avythos – sometimes it’s best to stop digging. Your second attempt to evidence an invalid point is a form to be used by Virgin credit card holders who are in financial difficult and want to enter a special payment plan!All your posts are essentially trying to justify the concept of putting hypothetical income onto a credit card application to obtain credit which is not permitted. If an application were challenged, you would need to provide actual evidence rather than some suggestion that if the moons align and the winds blow favourably, your are going to have a greater income this year than last.
This is so simple a concept, I cannot fathom how it has made it to five pages of discussion.
Legitimate, actual (and therefore reasonably expected future) income can be easily and readily evidenced, with the likes of historical financial data, contracts, tax returns, and maybe at a stretch, expired contracts with accompanying advertisements – such as for a letting.
If this evidence cannot be produced when required, then there is there is a risk of an application being considered fraudulent. End of.
Future income hopes and dreams are of absolutely no relevance whatsoever.
Firstly, I want to clarify that my intention is not to advocate for fraudulent actions. The topic of fraud demands absolute clarity, and I acknowledge that unequivocally. However, we are currently discussing the incorporation of legitimate “other income” into our financial reports, not deliberate deception.
I merely proposed the possibility of including new, legitimate income streams as part of ‘other income’. At no point did I suggest the fabrication or manipulation of hypothetical income. What I highlighted were potential sources of new income, such as newly initiated room rentals or the anticipation of dividend income due to improved business performance.
It is important to understand that the relevance of these income sources at the time of application is crucial. Yes, they are new and hence their continuity cannot be fully guaranteed – a fact applicable to any income source, new or old. However, if asked, you would be required to provide proof of these income sources. This process doesn’t require that the income has already been fully received but does demand credible evidence of its existence.
To contextualise this further, let’s consider a salaried individual who might lose their job the day after applying for credit. This situation is analogous to a scenario where a month after the application, your tenant loses their job and can no longer afford to pay the rent. Or even a situation where the company that you are expecting dividends from fails to meet its sales commitments, affecting your expected dividend income.
The point here is that all income, whether salaried, rental, or dividends, carries a certain degree of uncertainty. What is crucial, and indeed demanded by the credit card application process, is that you provide a truthful and accurate representation of your income at the time of application.
I have made a genuine effort to understand the interpretation of ‘other income sources’ as deemed acceptable by credit institutions, in this case AMEX. Given that such information is not explicitly defined in any readily available materials from AMEX, I referred to examples from Experian and Virgin Credit. While these references may not be direct, they provide contextual relevance and help to form a more comprehensive understanding of the potential interpretations of ‘other income sources’ in the credit industry.
It is clear some have an “absolutist” or “binary” view, particularly when it comes to issues such as fraud. They view the world in clear-cut terms of right and wrong, with no grey areas or room for ambiguity. They believe in rigid principles and rules, often disregarding or not acknowledging the complex realities and nuances that can exist in real-world situations. And that is why it has made it to 5 pages of discussion!
In the end, it indeed falls upon the individual to present their income situation to Amex accurately and honestly. It is up to Amex to assess that information and make an informed decision. Applicants must bear in mind that transparency is key in such processes, and any attempt to misrepresent income may lead to unfavourable consequences.
I stand by what I have said previously in the context of the above and sincerely in real debate.
You can add in dividends as income and expected dividend could take one over the threshold, the fact that an unexpected item later reduced the expected dividend…
The 3 ellipses suggest deliberate omission of information and, based on the thread to the point you made this comment, a winky face at what you could claim if you’re inventive enough.
The 3 ellipses suggest deliberate omission of information and, based on the thread to the point you made this comment, a winky face at what you could claim if you’re inventive enough.
The ellipsis (…) can be used in various contexts and its meaning can differ based on its usage. In formal writing, it’s often used to indicate the omission of words or to create a pause for effect. In informal communication, like in a text or online comment, it can signify an unfinished thought, a trailing off into silence, or imply that there’s more to the story that’s not being said. In the context of the response you provided, it might be interpreted as indicating that the person is leaving something unsaid or creating a pause for effect.
It will depend on your perspective which you chose. I was conveying information without overburdening or being overbearing as I pointed out above, “The point here is that all income, whether salaried, rental, or dividends, carries a certain degree of uncertainty. What is crucial, and indeed demanded by the credit card application process, is that you provide a truthful and accurate representation of your income at the time of application.”
you could be described as pedantic and maybe I am a little droll…
“pedantic” refers to a person who is excessively concerned with minor details or rules, or who showcases an ostentatious and arrogant display of learning. “Droll” describes a person whose sense of humour is odd, wry, or amusing in a peculiar way. Depending on the overall tone and content of the person’s comments, you could potentially describe either as pedantic or droll.Have a lovely day.
. What I highlighted were potential sources of new income, such as newly initiated room rentals or the anticipation of dividend income due to improved business performance.
Lol, you either received income or not. One cannot be half pregnant.
Amex isn’t asking for ‘expected’ or ‘anticipated’ income. If you received it last year, include it. End of.
. What I highlighted were potential sources of new income, such as newly initiated room rentals or the anticipation of dividend income due to improved business performance.
Lol, you either received income or not. One cannot be half pregnant.
Amex isn’t asking for ‘expected’ or ‘anticipated’ income. If you received it last year, include it. End of.
Correct! It is sounding increasingly like a chatbot unable to distinguish between contracted income and if, but, maybe income. Anyway, if you need smoke and mirrors to make a card application, you’re already in trouble.
. What I highlighted were potential sources of new income, such as newly initiated room rentals or the anticipation of dividend income due to improved business performance.
Lol, you either received income or not. One cannot be half pregnant.
Amex isn’t asking for ‘expected’ or ‘anticipated’ income. If you received it last year, include it. End of.
Correct! It is sounding increasingly like a chatbot unable to distinguish between contracted income and if, but, maybe income. Anyway, if you need smoke and mirrors to make a card application, you’re already in trouble.
Exactly this. I’m self employed and always declare my previous year’s tax return earnings, even if this year is going much better. I’m not going to declare what is coming in now, as unexpected changes can occur before the year end. If I were to get rejected for a card based on this, that’s just life and I move on.
Oh, and @avythos, I think you were trying to insult me. Worth a try I guess 🤷🏻♂️
To add to the other posters, @avythos if you think that is the way to go, go ahead. We are not Amex, it’s not us you might have to convince!
I, for one, am not a “friend” of Amex. If you want to fool them, go ahead, but beware of the risks — both legal and financial.
I think it must be Amex taking the risks of income verification. I always find it funny that they never truely ask for an income verification.
I am not worried that people like @avythos ‘s interpretations of what income is would threaten my account or my future card applications, if there will be any.If it is capitalism, Amex will take some risks, including the incomes of the account holders. And I don’t care how they’ll manage that.
They certainly asked me to send proof of income when I applied for a BAPP earlier this year. I stated my true annual income (above £50K by the way). I sent a copy of my payslip for the previous month. This showed less than I stated when annualised (still above £50K though), as I get a bonus every July. My take home pay is also relatively low compared to salary. My application was rejected. I put this down to a combination of bonus and low take-home pay.
However, my Platinum application was approved last week with no request for income proof. So, I am not so sure that things are quite as cut and dried as some my suggest.
I got turned down for the BAPP last year – I contacted Amex as I’d never had a problem before and they just said it’s an automated decision and they couldn’t understand it and to try again in 90 days, which I did, and was accepted! There had been no change in my circumstances so who knows what goes on behind the scenes?
They certainly asked me to send proof of income when I applied for a BAPP earlier this year. I stated my true annual income (above £50K by the way). I sent a copy of my payslip for the previous month. This showed less than I stated when annualised (still above £50K though), as I get a bonus every July. My take home pay is also relatively low compared to salary. My application was rejected. I put this down to a combination of bonus and low take-home pay.
However, my Platinum application was approved last week with no request for income proof. So, I am not so sure that things are quite as cut and dried as some my suggest.
Congratulations to you! I would expect Platinum would be more strict compared to BAPP. Just want to confirm as I am confused regarding additional income and personal income. Would you put the bonus into the same category as personal income?
Thank goodness, a sensible question!
Assuming you are referring to a bonus as a salaried employee, I personally have done so previously in an application. I was cautious about the amount so factored in the equivalent of half of it, so if the contract states “up to 10% of annual salary” as bonus, I would add 5% to my total income. This is because a bonus isn’t guaranteed (hence it’s name) and I have never ever heard of the full amount being awarded anyway. This is easily evidenced and to my mind, entirely and reasonably justifiable, if challenged.
I think that is the key here when answering the application question, can the income you are declaring be evidenced and its inclusion, reasonably justified? The answer to this question (at least to my mind) is the same as to whether it should therefore be included.
Congratulations to you! I would expect Platinum would be more strict compared to BAPP. Just want to confirm as I am confused regarding additional income and personal income. Would you put the bonus into the same category as personal income?
Yes, in may case. The bonus is contractual from my Employer and easy for me to predict. I have maxed it out in the last two years and could easily prove this if asked. However, I was asked for my last payslip, which I supplied. This showed no bonus and relatively low take home pay. I was rejected and did not appeal. This turned out to be a win for me, as I value the platinum offer higher then the BAPP.
Oh, and @avythos, I think you were trying to insult me. Worth a try I guess 🤷🏻♂️[/quote]
Really? I thought I added some humour.., insults are really for those that can’t intelligently debate.
Another example of salaried pay changing after submission of a salary in an application is one where the person opts to then salary sacrifice income into say a pension. That could occur for a variety of reasons that may or may not be known at the time of application.
Oh, and @avythos, I think you were trying to insult me. Worth a try I guess 🤷🏻♂️
Really? I thought I added some humour.., insults are really for those that can’t intelligently debate.
Another example of salaried pay changing after submission of a salary in an application is one where the person opts to then salary sacrifice income into say a pension. That could occur for a variety of reasons that may or may not be known at the time of application.[/quote]
I don’t understand what salary changes after application have to do with anything. How would Amex even know? Just put your actual, provable, pre-tax income on the application. you may get approved, you may not. Potential rejection may not have anything to with income anyway.
Data point: heard from my friend today that she has just been approved for an Amex Plat with a bang on £50k income (salary only, no additional) and wasn’t asked to provide proof of income, just proof of ID and proof of address. I also applied and was approved last week, whole process took about 24 hours from applying to receiving confirmation of approval, and they also didn’t ask for any proof of income, just ID (ie passport) and proof of address (for which the only option was a bank statement, not a utility bill or similar). I had a strong inkling I’d been accepted about an hour before actually receiving the Amex confirmation because a “Welcome to Priorty Pass” email landed with my membership details!
Has anyone applied for the card with LESS THAN £50K, post 13th of June? If so – what was the outcome this time around?
Has anyone applied for the card with LESS THAN £50K, post 13th of June? If so – what was the outcome this time around?
I remember reading above that you were in a similar situation – have you tried applying post 13th June with <£50k?
Has anyone applied for the card with LESS THAN £50K, post 13th of June? If so – what was the outcome this time around?
I remember reading above that you were in a similar situation – have you tried applying post 13th June with <£50k?
Nope – did one early June and got declined with the usual income message. I’ll be waiting 2-3 months before re-trying or until a new offer comes along to get an extra benefit out of the card as I’d like to hold it for a longer period of time.
So maybe next offer, try to apply on Day 1.. and maybe then it’ll work. Maybe they introduced a requirement halfway through as they got too many low income applications they deemed as churners.. who really knows. Someone on the forum said a 50K thing no longer exists, but there’s no offers on it now so not too enticing to go for it without any sort of SUB.
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