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  • sloth 315 posts

    Surely anyone with half an ounce of common sense knows it’s wrong to lie on the application form? With all the implications that brings. I sometimes wonder if these questions are more designed to get JDB frothing up rather than being genuine. If they are genuine then they deserve everything they get

    zapato1060 719 posts

    Surely anyone with half an ounce of common sense knows it’s wrong to lie on the application form? With all the implications that brings. I sometimes wonder if these questions are more designed to get JDB frothing up rather than being genuine. If they are genuine then they deserve everything they get

    I asked the question genuinely and have been educated. That is all. Never lied or would be willing to but never knew the repercussions. At best I thought the card will get shut down and if your keeping payments up to date would they even know/care? Cheers.

    zapato1060 719 posts

    It would be most unfortunate to be refused a mortgage because you wanted 60k MR points!

    Not funny but very much so 😀

    NorthernLass 8,508 posts

    Surely anyone with half an ounce of common sense knows it’s wrong to lie on the application form? With all the implications that brings. I sometimes wonder if these questions are more designed to get JDB frothing up rather than being genuine. If they are genuine then they deserve everything they get

    You’d think, but I’d be willing to bet that quite a lot of people do actually do this, though probably less since Amex and other lenders started doing more stringent checks. It’s an unfortunate facet of human nature to try to exploit systems – look at how many fraudulent loans were applied for during the pandemic – they were ludicrously easy to get and it was obvious to anyone with a couple of brains cells (though not the government, apparently) that it was wide open to abuse. That one was particularly infuriating as it was tax payers’ money and a lot of it will just be written off.

    sloth 315 posts

    Surely anyone with half an ounce of common sense knows it’s wrong to lie on the application form? With all the implications that brings. I sometimes wonder if these questions are more designed to get JDB frothing up rather than being genuine. If they are genuine then they deserve everything they get

    I asked the question genuinely and have been educated. That is all. Never lied or would be willing to but never knew the repercussions. At best I thought the card will get shut down and if your keeping payments up to date would they even know/care? Cheers.

    Sorry my comment wasnt aimed at you specifically, more just surprised that people don’t realise the implications of lying. But respect to you for coming back and replying

    sloth 315 posts

    Surely anyone with half an ounce of common sense knows it’s wrong to lie on the application form? With all the implications that brings. I sometimes wonder if these questions are more designed to get JDB frothing up rather than being genuine. If they are genuine then they deserve everything they get

    You’d think, but I’d be willing to bet that quite a lot of people do actually do this, though probably less since Amex and other lenders started doing more stringent checks. It’s an unfortunate facet of human nature to try to exploit systems – look at how many fraudulent loans were applied for during the pandemic – they were ludicrously easy to get and it was obvious to anyone with a couple of brains cells (though not the government, apparently) that it was wide open to abuse. That one was particularly infuriating as it was tax payers’ money and a lot of it will just be written off.

    Sure but just because people do it and get away with it doesn’t make it right. All those scum bags who took the covid loans fraudulently you would hope will get caught up with ultimately but yes we all know that’s unlikely

    NorthernLass 8,508 posts

    I don’t think anybody here has suggested it’s right!

    jj 562 posts

    I appreciate that the questions raised here were hypothetical rather than an intent to behave fraudulently, but it always disappoints me how many people are willing to lie on application forms. It must be sad to value your personal integrity at no more than 60,000 membership reward points.

    JDB 4,861 posts

    @NorthernLass while you say “It’s an unfortunate facet of human nature to try to exploit systems” that fortunately only applies to a small cadre of people. Most people, from all walks of life and across all age groups act with integrity and do the right thing every day. Many of us work in professions that operate a Principles/Rules/Guidance system and in the City there are very wide ranging laws relating to market abuse as well as the requirement to report any transgressions with the failure to do so rendering one as liable as the transgressor. One is expected to make many judgement calls on a daily basis. It’s not difficult, it’s a matter of personal integrity and culture. If one is unsure about something good compliance people, who I see as protectors rather than the enemy, can assist.

    I was quite surprised by your devil’s advocate comment because I think that rather misses the point and whether or not you get or might get prosecuted should have no bearing on doing the right thing. @jj mentions CIFAS as a tool for financial services firms to punish dishonest people short of prosecution. In other spheres, dodgy people are quietly sacked and word gets out or they are ostracised and no respectable client deals with them; nobody recovers from that and it’s more effective than any prosecution. Integrity and reputation are everything. That’s also what the blackball system is designed to stop.

    It was astonishing to me that someone asked the question about lying on a credit card application and then to see someone quickly responding that it’s fine and if discovered you’ll just get your cards closed as of such conduct were normal. It’s just so blindingly obvious and if it isn’t that’s pretty worrying for those around them.

    I suspect that while I may comment more about these things, many people here probably feel quite uncomfortable about some people’s casual relationship with the truth and constant crossing the fairly obvious line between maximising opportunities and abuse.

    zapato1060 719 posts

    I can proclaim my first question was fully answered 😀 😀

    But my second was if anyone is aware if theres a 50k min now also on BAPP? Cheers

    BuildBackBetter 705 posts

    But my second was if anyone is aware if theres a 50k min now also on BAPP? Cheers

    Is there any point of asking on a public forum? Obviously they are going to stick to information publicly available. Rumours are rumours unless confirmed by Amex.

    If you so concerned about an unwanted credit check, don’t apply.

    Rob
    HfP Staff
    2,372 posts

    BAPP is as it was.

    NorthernLass 8,508 posts

    @JDB, you speak often from your professional background, and so do I! Anyone who has worked in law enforcement will confirm that to catch criminals you have to learn to think like them. It should be possible to have an academic discussion without “encouraging” anyone to do the wrong thing. Also, moralising rarely stops anyone from doing things – educating people about the potential consequences of their actions is far more effective.

    Ash 620 posts

    @JDB, you speak often from your professional background, and so do I! Anyone who has worked in law enforcement will confirm that to catch criminals you have to learn to think like them. It should be possible to have an academic discussion without “encouraging” anyone to do the wrong thing. Also, moralising rarely stops anyone from doing things – educating people about the potential consequences of their actions is far more effective.

    Asking out of genuine curiosity and nothing more, and without revealing any identifying information, would love to know which fields are you and @JDB are in….thank you in advance for satisfying this curious cat and equally if you’d rather not, apologies if the question is intrusive.

    NorthernLass 8,508 posts

    Well I’m mostly retired now, as I think @JDB is also! But you can probably work it out if you follow the posts …

    zapato1060 719 posts

    Well I’m mostly retired now, as I think @JDB is also! But you can probably work it out if you follow the posts …

    My respects NL. JDB is like an omniscient Tibetian monk.

    Is there any point of asking on a public forum?

    Relax. Can I interest you in some yoga?

    JDB 4,861 posts

    Well I’m mostly retired now, as I think @JDB is also! But you can probably work it out if you follow the posts …

    I’m 61, but definitely not retired and plan to continue working for as long as I am able and my clients are happy, as I love my work. I did give up a long term very full time salaried job a few years ago when I ceased to enjoy it which I had always done prior to that decision, even though it involved getting up at 4.30am, working many weekends and cancelled/shortened holidays. I now have a number of different jobs that enable me to work very flexibly and perhaps the most important additional job for life of trying to be a good husband and father.

    Whatsthepoint 133 posts

    Seems like a shortsighted and narrow eligibility criteria. I’m retired and my annual ‘income’ each year is whatever I want it to be. With no mortgage and no other debts, my disposable income is significant, yet if I was to apply again I’d probably get rejected despite spending well over £20k with Amex every year. Or do I just give them the answer they’re looking for?Strange!

    NorthernLass 8,508 posts

    I’ve been declined when I told them I was retired, then accepted when I said I was a part-time tutor (you can’t declare 2 employers), even though my pension income exceeds what I get from tutoring (and is guaranteed for life), and overall income was the same. So go figure!

    JellyFan 20 posts

    Seems like a shortsighted and narrow eligibility criteria.

    It does, furthermore it seems likely to alienate a good chunk of their target audience?

    I’m employed, but most of my income comes from my investments rather than my salary.

    Obviously however investment income varies considerably depending on market forces and how much I choose to withdraw, and is thus harder to declare accurately towards their arbitrary minimum income.

    avythos 43 posts

    Well it does say do you have any other income. One can earn income from letting a room in ones house without up to £7500 tax free, you have to opt in or declare this but if you just started this there wouldn’t be a record as yet. So legitimately you could declare that additional income together with the original posts £45k and be over the threshold, albeit as a couple it would £3250 each.

    You can add in dividends as income and expected dividend could take one over the threshold, the fact that an unexpected item later reduced the expected dividend…

    It is not fraud, no more so than it is con by Amex to suggest you can apply for the Platinum card but not disclose there is a income minimum requirement..

    Spare 14 posts

    It is not fraud, no more so than it is con by Amex to suggest you can apply for the Platinum card but not disclose there is a income minimum requirement..

    Do you tell yourself that in order to justify committing fraud and feel better about it?

    Blair Waldorf Salad 1,187 posts

    For interest, Amex do publish minimum income levels for applicants in other jurisdictions. Currently £82,464 equivalent in UAE

    avythos 43 posts

    It is not fraud, no more so than it is con by Amex to suggest you can apply for the Platinum card but not disclose there is a income minimum requirement..

    Do you tell yourself that in order to justify committing fraud and feel better about it?

    Pray do tell where is the fraud.

    AnotherRandomPerson 16 posts

    It is not fraud, no more so than it is con by Amex to suggest you can apply for the Platinum card but not disclose there is a income minimum requirement..

    Do you tell yourself that in order to justify committing fraud and feel better about it?

    Pray do tell where is the fraud.

    It *is* fraud to declare a fake amount of income to amex that you don’t reasonable expect in that year.

    It is one thing to be unexpected kicked from a job this the income was wrong to say and another to completely lie.

    Amex has not been completely evil here.
    Amex no longer run those ads for no minimum income.
    Heck, amex has not done the hard search for us that applied without the min income. So no loss.
    Heck, amex may be forced into it as per JDB’s post.

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