BA 77W – seat map mismatch

[dst87]

Found something strange when looking at seats for a flight in November. Aircraft is the 777-300ER, code 77W on the BA seat map. BA shows me no first class and all Club Suite… but all other online seat maps show 2 rows of First and then Club Suite from row 5 back.

Are they planning to rip First out of these aircraft, or is the seat map just confusingly letting me book a first class seat in row 1 with my Club World ticket? 😕

[NorthernLass]

I’m confused, how can BA be letting you choose row 1 if your seat map is showing from row 5?

What it sounds like, though, is that BA is using a 4 class aircraft but only sells 3 cabins on your route. This is not uncommon. You won’t be able to select a seat in F unless J is full and they open up the F cabin close to departure. You still get J service though (it’s known as Flub in the industry!)

[SamG]

Which route is it ? “Flub” on a 77w is unusual!

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

which are these other online seat maps?

[dst87]

Yeah, I’m confused too. I’m taking BA as the source of truth here, of course, but I’d like to see which seats are recommended on the aircraft and see a more detailed map, hence looking at various site like SeatMaps and Aero Lopa.

British Airways shows the aircraft type as 77W. I can choose seats from rows 1 to 24, suggesting no First Class cabin. The cabin is divided as rows 1 and 2, then a large gap, then rows 5-7, then a bulkhead, then 8-18, then a bulkhead, then 19-24. Rows 18 and 24 have only the middle pair.

I understand that 77W is a 777-300ER. Both SeatMaps and AeroLopa show a 777-300ER aircraft for BA that has the same cabin division and seat layouts as the BA seat map, but where rows 1 and 2 are First Class, NOT Club Suite.

I mostly just want to know which seats to pick. I know, there are no “bad seats” in Club Suite…

If it helps, the specific flights are these:

LHR > HND BA0005 Nov 26 11:50 – 10:25
HND > LHR BA0006 Dec 13 13:15 – 19:15

Maybe this is just a configuration that the seat map sites don’t have yet? But also… nor does the BA seat map page here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/seating/seat-maps/full-seatmaps

So this makes me think that either there’s a new layout coming later this year with the First cabin ripped out and replaced with Business, or there’s some strange bug in my reservation that is showing me a mangled seat plan.

[nike85]

Can you actually select seats in Row 1 or 2? These are showing as blocked on expert flyer. (what’s your BAEC status?) It looks like Flub.

[Alex G]

Its definitely a 4 class plane operating a 3 class service.

I think they will only open up rows 1 and 2 if Club is sold out, or the entire flight is oversold and they have to upgrade people.

The F cabin is likely to be used as an extra crew rest area.

If rows 1 and 2 do become available, it probably won’t be until on line check in opens.

[dst87]

nike85 wrote:

Can you actually select seats in Row 1 or 2? These are showing as blocked on expert flyer. (what’s your BAEC status?) It looks like Flub.

Ah! Yes, I think you’re right. It’s a bug. If can select them, but get an error when trying to save. Weird!

I’m happy with that though because now I know that the seat maps I can see online are real. What a bizarre bug.

Seats chosen in the small forward cabin. Middle pair will hopefully be good, though the window seats might be tempting, even if it means we can’t talk to each other. 😅

[ekposh]

Alex G wrote:

Its definitely a 4 class plane operating a 3 class service.

I think they will only open up rows 1 and 2 if Club is sold out, or the entire flight is oversold and they have to upgrade people.

The F cabin is likely to be used as an extra crew rest area.

If rows 1 and 2 do become available, it probably won’t be until on line check in opens.

But OP says he can select them, which is odd?

[dst87]

ekposh wrote:

But OP says he can select them, which is odd?

See above – must be a bug. I can select them, but I cannot save them. Glad the confusion is over!

[Alex G]

ekposh wrote:

Alex G wrote:

Its definitely a 4 class plane operating a 3 class service.

I think they will only open up rows 1 and 2 if Club is sold out, or the entire flight is oversold and they have to upgrade people.

The F cabin is likely to be used as an extra crew rest area.

If rows 1 and 2 do become available, it probably won’t be until on line check in opens.

But OP says he can select them, which is odd?

I wonder if he is reading the seat map properly. I can’t select them on a dummy booking, but I’m not Gold!

The other possibility is that BA might be hoping to reinstate F to TYO in the winter timetable. Anyone paying for F to TYO is forced to fly with JAL (and having done so once, will probably never go back to BA!)

[SamG]

Alex G wrote:

Its definitely a 4 class plane operating a 3 class service.

I think they will only open up rows 1 and 2 if Club is sold out, or the entire flight is oversold and they have to upgrade people.

The F cabin is likely to be used as an extra crew rest area.

If rows 1 and 2 do become available, it probably won’t be until on line check in opens.

Even then, they do seem to manually manage these by status – moving yourself likely means you’re shifted back to a potentially inferior seat

Bit of a weird situation as the daily flight (BA7) is a 787-9 also operating as a 3 class flight. I’d have thought Tokyo was a route that could support F. These flights are usually very busy so good flub potential if you’ve got the correct creds!

[1958]

I have the same flight booked in November – and as a BA Silver, I cannot save the front row. (I can select the seat, but I cannot confirm the seat).
I had read that such seats are open to everyone 24 hours before the flight. Is this correct, or does BA allocate by status?

[NorthernLass]

I’ve just remembered that this has happened a couple of times to GCM where the F seats show in the app as available to book, but then you get an error message at the next stage.

A few years ago we were seated in F due to CW being full, but that was done just prior to T-24 by BA.

[JDB]

1958 wrote:

I have the same flight booked in November – and as a BA Silver, I cannot save the front row. (I can select the seat, but I cannot confirm the seat).
I had read that such seats are open to everyone 24 hours before the flight. Is this correct, or does BA allocate by status?

Generally, if the use the cabin at all, they allocate by staff status!

[dst87]

I can’t imagine they’d have trouble filling 8 First seats on such a popular route. Is the issue staffing rather than demand?

At least this thread has taught me the term “Flub”, so there’s that.

[NorthernLass]

When we were flubbed about 5 years ago, the other passengers in the F cabin were the captain’s wife and kids! He popped out from the flight deck several times, handed out biscuits from the club kitchen and was very chatty.

Both of us were BA blue at the time – I put it down to me refusing to pay for seat selection so we were the only ones without allocated seats at check in and CW was full!

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

dst87 wrote:

I can’t imagine they’d have trouble filling 8 First seats on such a popular route. Is the issue staffing rather than demand?

At least this thread has taught me the term “Flub”, so there’s that.

Yes it’s staffing.

If the F cabin is opened for passengers it requires at least one extra member of cabin crew

[Alex G]

I wonder just how profitable F is for BA on the TYO route. I got a pair of reward tickets in Dec 2019 using a companion voucher. There was a honeymoon couple who were also on a 241 redemption (HfP readers) and a single man who might have actually paid for his ticket. 3 empty seats.