Crossrail / Elizabeth line to open Tuesday 24th May

[ChrisC]

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/crossrail-announces-the-elizabeth-line-opening-date-54074/

Will initially run Abbey Wood to Paddington from 06.30 – 23.00 Monday to Saturday

Will require a change at Paddington to the TFL (which will be rebranded as Elizabeth Line) and HEX services to LHR.

[memesweeper]

Great news, albeit still not working for the Heathrow users. Some more from Eveeeenin StanAd

[Mouse]

And only 2 trains per hour to T5

[Andrew.]

Mouse wrote:

And only 2 trains per hour to T5

More interestingly…

If I arrive at Paddington, I should be able to reach Canary Wharf or Custom House in about 18 minutes. Then, depending on the weather and time of day, I think LCY is within about a 20 minute walk or short bus hop?

If I never have to wait more than 5 minutes for an Elizabeth Line service, it makes LCY and LHR a roughly equal choice timewise.

[ChrisC]

Mouse wrote:

And only 2 trains per hour to T5

Which is the same as the current TFL service.

When through running starts there will be

2 trains to T5

4 trains to T4

And both of those will stop as T2/3

[Mouse]

ChrisC wrote:

Mouse wrote:

And only 2 trains per hour to T5

Which is the same as the current TFL service.

Yes but if you look at the marketing you’d think you can just turn up at Farringdon or Canary Wharf or wherever and jump on a train to Heathrow, but if you’re going to T5 then in reality you’re likely to have to change at either Paddington or T2/3 which is a pain.

[Mouse]

And all so that Heathrow can continue milking people for 25 quid a pop on the Heathrow Express

[John]

Andrew. wrote:

If I arrive at Paddington, I should be able to reach Canary Wharf or Custom House in about 18 minutes. Then, depending on the weather and time of day, I think LCY is within about a 20 minute walk or short bus hop?

If I never have to wait more than 5 minutes for an Elizabeth Line service, it makes LCY and LHR a roughly equal choice timewise.

Probably faster to take the DLR but requires a second change and associated waiting time.

You would need to walk very very quickly to get there in 20 minutes (from leaving the train to the check-in area).

Mouse wrote:

Yes but if you look at the marketing you’d think you can just turn up at Farringdon or Canary Wharf or wherever and jump on a train to Heathrow, but if you’re going to T5 then in reality you’re likely to have to change at either Paddington or T2/3 which is a pain.

It isn’t a pain, it will be from the same platform at T2/3, and also at Paddington eventually. Changing to the Heathrow Express would be a pain.

[Carlos]

memesweeper wrote:

Great news, albeit still not working for the Heathrow users. Some more from Eveeeenin StanAd

How is it not working for Heathrow users? Also, why are you speaking like that Eveeeenin StanAd. Is this your attempt of an East London accent?

[memesweeper]

Carlos wrote:

memesweeper wrote:

Great news, albeit still not working for the Heathrow users. Some more from Eveeeenin StanAd

How is it not working for Heathrow users?

No through trains from central/east London to Heathrow. That was my reading of the service levels from the article. All the LHR trains start at Paddington.

Carlos wrote:

Also, why are you speaking like that Eveeeenin StanAd. Is this your attempt of an East London accent?

Showing my age. It’s my attempt to write down the way the sellers of the Standard used to call out to hawk their product, way back when.

• This reply was modified 54 years, 4 months ago by .

[Andrew.]

John wrote:

Andrew. wrote:

If I arrive at Paddington, I should be able to reach Canary Wharf or Custom House in about 18 minutes. Then, depending on the weather and time of day, I think LCY is within about a 20 minute walk or short bus hop?

If I never have to wait more than 5 minutes for an Elizabeth Line service, it makes LCY and LHR a roughly equal choice timewise.

Probably faster to take the DLR but requires a second change and associated waiting time.

You would need to walk very very quickly to get there in 20 minutes (from leaving the train to the check-in area).

Google Maps says 29 minutes, so out of Custom House, towards the waterfront, then along riverside to over/under Connaught Bridge, then walk along to the drop-off area.

1.4 miles, is doable briskly in 20 minutes though.

[Mouse]

John wrote:

Mouse wrote:

Yes but if you look at the marketing you’d think you can just turn up at Farringdon or Canary Wharf or wherever and jump on a train to Heathrow, but if you’re going to T5 then in reality you’re likely to have to change at either Paddington or T2/3 which is a pain.

It isn’t a pain, it will be from the same platform at T2/3, and also at Paddington eventually. Changing to the Heathrow Express would be a pain.

It just seems to me that if you scrapped the Heathrow Express and instead had five Crossrail trains per hour to T 2/3/4 and another five to T 2/3/5 that would benefit a lot more people. (10 per hour being the current total TFL Rail + HEX frequency)

[BuildBackBetter]

Mouse wrote:

It just seems to me that if you scrapped the Heathrow Express and instead had five Crossrail trains per hour to T 2/3/4 and another five to T 2/3/5 that would benefit a lot more people. (10 per hour being the current total TFL Rail + HEX frequency)

Who will pay for the construction and equipment cost of HEX?

[aso40]

Andrew. wrote:

John wrote:

Andrew. wrote:

If I arrive at Paddington, I should be able to reach Canary Wharf or Custom House in about 18 minutes. Then, depending on the weather and time of day, I think LCY is within about a 20 minute walk or short bus hop?

If I never have to wait more than 5 minutes for an Elizabeth Line service, it makes LCY and LHR a roughly equal choice timewise.

Probably faster to take the DLR but requires a second change and associated waiting time.

You would need to walk very very quickly to get there in 20 minutes (from leaving the train to the check-in area).

Google Maps says 29 minutes, so out of Custom House, towards the waterfront, then along riverside to over/under Connaught Bridge, then walk along to the drop-off area.

1.4 miles, is doable briskly in 20 minutes though.

The Canary Wharf crossrail station is a few mins walk to Poplar DLR which is on the main Bank to LCY line with trains every few mins. Might be an easier place to change.

[ChrisC]

Mouse wrote:

<
It just seems to me that if you scrapped the Heathrow Express and instead had five Crossrail trains per hour to T 2/3/4 and another five to T 2/3/5 that would benefit a lot more people. (10 per hour being the current total TFL Rail + HEX frequency)

The current service to LHR is 6 trains an hour – 4 HEX and 2 TFL (i’m going to call all crossrail services TFL for ease)

When through running starts there will be 10 per hour – 4 HEX and 6 TFL (2 to T5 and 4 to T4 and all stoping at T2/3)

In the original crossrail scheme no TFL trains were due to go to T5 at all. That was changed in around 2015 when it was agreed 2 TFLs could go to T5.

BuildBackBetter wrote:

Who will pay for the construction and equipment cost of HEX?

HAL originally had a 25 year fund design build operate concession to build the Heathrow Spur line (that turns off the main line to get to LHR) and run the HEX service from the date it opened so 1998 – 2023.

It operates with no public funding hence the high fares and it’s not like it can cross subsidise from other routes to lower the fares.

In 2017 that concession was increased to 30 years to end in 2028.

Each HEX train pays an access charge to operate on the national rail network main line until it gets to the Heathrow Spur.

Each TFL train pays Network Rail an acceess cgarge for the main line and a separate charge to HAL for use of the HEX line and platforms. And that will continue.

There was a court case a couple of years ago relating to the TFL access charges which is too complicated to go into here save to say that TFL only has to pay access fees that cover the operating costs of the HEX facilities and not to cover the capital cost of building them

[BuildBackBetter]

ChrisC wrote:

BuildBackBetter wrote:

Who will pay for the construction and equipment cost of HEX?

There was a court case a couple of years ago relating to the TFL access charges which is too complicated to go into here save to say that TFL only has to pay access fees that cover the operating costs of the HEX facilities and not to cover the capital cost of building them

Thanks for the explanation. My comment was more of a sarcastic one. If the govt had public interests at heart, they’d have taken over HEX, slashed ticket prices to reasonable levels and avoid all the complex contracts. But then the public don’t donate to the party, so why care.

[Mouse]

ChrisC wrote:

HAL originally had a 25 year fund design build operate concession to build the Heathrow Spur line (that turns off the main line to get to LHR) and run the HEX service from the date it opened so 1998 – 2023.

That’s my point – this extension made no sense, crossrail should have been allowed to take over the capacity in 2023.

[memesweeper]

The excellent City Mapper app now has a ‘the future’ prediction for journeys that could be improved when Her Majesty’s Line opens. The prediction for journey times from Heathrow to London City is barely improved, but you no longer need to spend £LOL on HEX for the best times, and the modes of travel drops from four today to two when phase two opens (in the Autumn). Clearly a big win for those that need to make the trip.

[Richie]

6.30am start time will still need hotels for early morning Heathrow flights.

[Carlos]

Having thought about this for a journey to heathrow and its rubbish (with luggage)

-still have to change platforms and walk far up and down levels at liverpool street station

-still need to do the same at paddington (will it be improved next year so going ahead is seamless? Sounds like it wont be)

Its better for me to take the district line and change at the piccadilly line

[ChrisC]

The journey for you might not be improved but it will be for lots of others.

You mention Liverpool Street so I’ll assume your in east London / Essex/ Suffolk etc.

When the Shenfield line starts through running that will help – but only if you live or have access to that line.

If you are coming from Southend or Ipswich you’re still going to have to change at Liverpool Street anyway and when you do you’ll have step free access.

And it will be the same at Paddington. If you are coming in from say Bristol or West London you’re still going to have to change to CR anyway – just like you have to change to the Hex or TFL service now.

[modestpointscollector]

Currently no real gamechangers for anyone who is expecting to cross the city and pop out the other side due to the no through running but certainly the East-West stuff will be massively improved once that opens up. Travelling down from East Anglia and Essex through to Heathrow suddenly becomes much easier with the step free interchange at Liverpool St which will make a big difference for a lot of people, myself included. Despite the lack of space for luggage on the trains I will feel a lot more comfortable taking a few big bags on the LizLine rather than the pain of Piccadilly or the still relative hassle of HEX.

The central section certainly is impressive, it makes no material difference to my current life, but if I was a commuter coming in from out East or West and it means not having to get on the Central line any more that’s going to massively improve my outlook on life!

[George K]

Slightly annoyed that T5 gets only two trains an hour and there’s no scope for improvement when the project is complete next year.

Thankfully Elizabeth line trains appear to be timetabled much like the HEX ones so you can get a sense whether you’ll be waiting for 25 minutes or just 5 before you make a decision to go towards the platforms.

T2 is such a superior terminal in terms of connections (and pretty much everything else, I think)…

[Richie]

I found the change at Paddington very straightforward going to Heathrow, will definitely use again.

[DevonDiamond]

No longer a Londoner but using it to get from Waterloo to Woolwich on Monday. Exciting!