Forums › Other › London life › Heathrow third runway and Gatwick second to be approved
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/21/heathrow-third-runway-rachel-reeves-sadiq-khan
Wouldn’t get my approval but “anything for growth” seems to be the order of the day.
Plans are rumoured to be less ambitious at Heathrow. I wonder if that could see “extend the runway” revisited?
Gatwick’s plans could be approved and underway very soon.
Slightly different take on BBC – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgl800vy1wo
The Guardian presents it almost as a decision made (despite the same quote used in both articles), whereas the beeb is a bit more measured.
Wouldn’t get my approval but “anything for growth” seems to be the order of the day.
Have to disagree. These are long due and the issues are overblown. The residents have known for decades the airport could be expanded. Its not like its thrust upon them overnight.
In any case, I doubt they’ll happen.
Sadiq says he’ll file cases in court to block it, obviously worried about his re-election prospects.
Andy Burnham is against it as he thinks its at the cost of Northern airports. Did anyone say there’ll be no development in the North? Does he even understand HAL is a private company investing the money and not the government?Was thinking it was just the boomers and gen x sitting on councils blocking all developments, but its clear this country is full of NIMBYs.
While the Gatwick 2nd runway is in the final stages of approval, I think Rachel may be jumping the gun on a third runway at Heathrow. It would be a fantastic thing for her – a huge infrastructure project, lots of skilled jobs almost entirely financed by private money but the new Heathrow CEO has been very clear that the company doesn’t want to incur a lot of cost resuscitating the project only for it to be killed by the politicians and Rachel is currently far from being able to deliver agreement on this. It is anticipated that Heathrow will say more on this next month. A third runway is opposed by Sadiq, Milliband and MPs around Richmond but has a fair bit of support from the regions in exchange for commitments of extra connectivity.
The timing isn’t ideal in that there are already very substantial capital plans from now until at least 2035 and the next regulatory settlement discussions are imminent. Simple expansion without a new runway could add capacity for c.20m extra passengers. Currently HAL has the T2 BRF and baggage projects which will be followed by the demolition of T1, huge expansion of T2 in phases, eventually to accommodate the pax from T3 which will be demolished. There’s also the expansion of the B and C satellites at T5 and the building of a D satellite. So lots of projects and massive capex, even without a third runway. Currently there’s a serious shortage of skilled staff in the UK for all this.
@BBbetter the most local residents are fairly supportive because of all the jobs and Heathrow does a lot in the local community generally but also installing insulation etc. The problem is in the likes of Richmond where they are already campaigning against a project that doesn’t exist!To be clear, I disliked the previous Heathrow 3rd runway plan. Let’s see what the revised plan looks like.
As for expansion generally, more at Gatwick seems smart.
As a former resident of Richmond, plenty of people quietly support expanding LHR but all politicians think they need to be against it to get elected. It’s also not really the most important issue and nobody would start voting Tory or Labour even if their candidates started supporting the third runway.
The Torygraph also makes mention of Luton – https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/beauty-spots-heathrow-gatwick-new-runways/
I’ll believe it when I see it. We have been here very many times before. For decades.
The other big problem with the third runway last time was of course BA’s implacable opposition, principally because they didn’t like the concept of any additional passenger charges rather than being opposed to expansion per se. I’m not sure how else they thought such a huge project was going to be funded. BA also said that it would refuse to move to the proposed estuary airport.
The other big problem with the third runway last time was of course BA’s implacable opposition, principally because they didn’t like the concept of any additional passenger charges rather than being opposed to expansion per se. I’m not sure how else they thought such a huge project was going to be funded. BA also said that it would refuse to move to the proposed estuary airport.
I wonder if the new proposals would be cheap enough for BA’s support (and/or coupled with a more palatable funding model)? That’s assuming their objections really were about charges, not competition/capacity.
As for BA refusing to move, that sounds like the best argument for a new airport I’ve yet heard 🙂
The change at Gatwick is less complex than the other two because the infrastructure is fundamentally in place. What I can’t understand is why it will take 5 years to move an existing runway 12m?
The other big problem with the third runway last time was of course BA’s implacable opposition, principally because they didn’t like the concept of any additional passenger charges rather than being opposed to expansion per se. I’m not sure how else they thought such a huge project was going to be funded. BA also said that it would refuse to move to the proposed estuary airport.
I wonder if the new proposals would be cheap enough for BA’s support (and/or coupled with a more palatable funding model)? That’s assuming their objections really were about charges, not competition/capacity.
As for BA refusing to move, that sounds like the best argument for a new airport I’ve yet heard 🙂
BA’s refusal to move was on the basis that everyone else would move and they would stay at Heathrow! I don’t think the cost is going to be lower, if only because the cost of such projects has increased more than general inflation.
The change at Gatwick is less complex than the other two because the infrastructure is fundamentally in place. What I can’t understand is why it will take 5 years to move an existing runway 12m?
They probably want to keep the airport operating at full capacity for the entire period. So basically will only work ~4 hours every night.
The change at Gatwick is less complex than the other two because the infrastructure is fundamentally in place. What I can’t understand is why it will take 5 years to move an existing runway 12m?
They probably want to keep the airport operating at full capacity for the entire period. So basically will only work ~4 hours every night.
And why rush? There’ll be a ton of supporting infrastructure that will need to be built at the same time.
Superb comment from Simon Calder on Sky News this morning on the subject of airport expansion:
‘It’s 20 years since the then Labour Transport Secretary Alistair Darling told Parliament that doing nothing was not an option. Since then of course we’ve done absolutely nothing’
We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!
Superb comment from Simon Calder on Sky News this morning on the subject of airport expansion:
‘It’s 20 years since the then Labour Transport Secretary Alistair Darling told Parliament that doing nothing was not an option. Since then of course we’ve done absolutely nothing’
Well, what he says isn’t entirely correct. There have been huge efforts and costs incurred to progress this. The Airports Commission recommended the go ahead in 2015 and after much general opposition, a plethora of legal challenges and a long planning process Parliament voted in favour of the third runway in 2018. The Supreme Court dismissed the last legal challenge in late 2020, but then of course covid struck. It’s incredibly difficult when there are so many opponents and little political will or strength. We also have a system whereby every newt has to be heard. Sir Kier and Rachel have spoken of bulldozing these complainants (and not just re airports); whether they can or not is another matter. Their enthusiasm is going to meet opposition in Cabinet, wider Labour party and of course the Mayor. Can they be brought into line??
Superb comment from Simon Calder on Sky News this morning on the subject of airport expansion:
‘It’s 20 years since the then Labour Transport Secretary Alistair Darling told Parliament that doing nothing was not an option. Since then of course we’ve done absolutely nothing’
Well, what he says isn’t entirely correct. There have been huge efforts and costs incurred to progress this. The Airports Commission recommended the go ahead in 2015 and after much general opposition, a plethora of legal challenges and a long planning process Parliament voted in favour of the third runway in 2018. The Supreme Court dismissed the last legal challenge in late 2020, but then of course covid struck. It’s incredibly difficult when there are so many opponents and little political will or strength. We also have a system whereby every newt has to be heard. Sir Kier and Rachel have spoken of bulldozing these complainants (and not just re airports); whether they can or not is another matter. Their enthusiasm is going to meet opposition in Cabinet, wider Labour party and of course the Mayor. Can they be brought into line??
Are you thinking of great crested newts and also bats?
It’s the same with any major infrastructure project, both publicly and privately funded. It’s taken 10 years to build half of half of a train line and the budget has ballooned; we are also striving for net zero in the next few years without the generation capacity to do. Last night 60% of the grid was from gas, the idea of net zero is fantastic but the only way of achieving it is with small modular reactors. It’s time to start kicking this sort of stuff down the line and being brave and cracking on.
There is no plan for “net zero” on electricity production until the general economy-wide goal of 2050.
The goal for 2030, despite what the Telegraph, Daily Mail, etc. say, is to have 95% of low carbon sources, net zero is never mentioned. So much so, that the remaining 5% are to be “unabated gas”, i.e. gas where the CO2 emissions are not captured, no net anything. A few days where gas dominates the grid are totally in line with that goal (5% is over 18 days where gas would be 100%, so over a month where gas is the main source). The main obstacle to achieve that 95% is likely to be transmission capacity, in terms of generating capacity we are likely to be ahead.Small modular reactors don’t exist, and won’t exist this decade. And no, what nuclear submarines have on board are not SMRs, as they use weapons-grade uranium.
I stand corrected says the man in the orthopaedic shoes. I stand by comment on our inability to complete large infrastructure projects.
That totally. 100X that. Including on SMRs (although part of that – a big part – is RR incompetence over 30 years, combined with start/stop policy priorities from governments).
Gatwick – there is a decision due by the end of February. The examiner (planning inspector) sent their recommendations to the Secrretary of State for Transport on 27th November. The SoS then has 3 months to issue their decsion.
Heathrow – there is no current application before the Planning Inspectorate so all the Government can do is issue some sort of ‘decision in principle’ for the airport to expand but not approve any particular option. It would then be for HAL to submit an application which would then go through the infrastructure planning process.
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