Iberia compensation

[hugog]

Refusing to pay for Buenos Aires to
Madrid on grounds of late arrival of previous aircraft – what is the next step?

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

Well the nect step would be giving some information on what actually happened! How late was your flight?

Why was the inbound aircraft late? Is that reason in scope or not for compensation?

[hugog]

Hello – 4 hours late – their rejection email does not say why it was late. The email we got said operational reasons and the rescheduling was done a day before.

[yonasl]

IB is not part of an ADR scheme so you have to go directly to MCOL with all that involves.

[hugog]

Anyone got experience of sending a letter before action to their office at waterside or using the Spanish arbitration process – AESA? Thanks

[JDB]

hugog wrote:

Anyone got experience of sending a letter before action to their office at waterside or using the Spanish arbitration process – AESA? Thanks

Don’t bother with AESA – they are not only impossibly slow but have Iberia’s back. It’s a nonsense process. You can write a letter before action but that is fairly unlikely to prompt any sensible response. One usually needs to issue a claim at MCOL. In view of the fact you have no claim under UK261 for the routing EZE-MAD without connecting flights to the UK, your MCOL pleadings/statement of case needs expressly to cover the fact that you are bringing a case in England under EU law. Iberia will respond via London lawyers (solicitors and counsel) who are very aggressive but ultimately rather incompetent. They will challenge you on the jurisdiction point and also if you bring a claim for any travelling companion on the same claim saying you have no locus standi.

It won’t be easy but assuming there are no valid ‘extraordinary circumstances’ you should win as long as you structure your case carefully in view of the jurisdictional issues.

[JDB]

For the avoidance of doubt, what Iberia’s solicitors will throw at you is Section 8.1 of the Interpretative Guidelines :-

For flights from one Member State to another Member State, carried out on the basis of a contract with a single air carrier which is the operating carrier, a claim for compensation under the Regulation can be brought, at the applicant’s choice, to the national court which has jurisdiction over either the place of departure or the place of arrival as stated in the contract of carriage in application of Regulation (EC) NO 1215/2012 (Brussels I). Under Article 4(1) of Brussels I passengers also retain the option of bringing the matter before the courts of the defendant’s (carrier’s) domicile

i.e. suggesting you could only bring your claim in Argentina or Spain.

[hugog]

This does maybe sound like a case where it may be worth using bott and co

[JDB]

hugog wrote:

This does maybe sound like a case where it may be worth using bott and co

I’m sure you can do this @hugog ! Bott & Co shy away from anything complicated and will take 30 – 50%++ of any compensation one. The risk as I see it, is that Iberia could magic up some ‘extraordinary circumstances’ and blow up your case but given they cite operational reasons and it was the day before that’s tricky for them.

I wasn’t trying to scare you off re the jurisdictional issue and certainly not sending you rushing to Bott, but more just to make it very clear that it isn’t a standard claim so the statement of case needs to incorporate a)breach of contract in accordance with IB’s Conditions of Contract and/or the provisions of the Montreal Convention b)failure to apply the terms of IB’s ‘Passenger Rights’ document and/or c) failure to apply EC261/2004 statutory rights that are explicit or implicit terms of contract

You need to establish that the contract was struck in the UK eg maybe booked on Iberia’s UK site, paid in GBP etc. I would ask IB to disclose to the court whether compensation has been paid to any other passenger on the flight. While the UK is no longer a member of the EU, Article AIRTRN.22 of the TCA (the withdrawal agreement) provides that there should be no discrimination in these matters.

Once a claim is issued I would promptly write to Iberia’s solicitors to say that while they might elect to raise various satellite issues that will only create additional cost / time wasted for their client and the courts (probably necessary to have an oral hearing) but since they have no defence to the underlying claim, in the event you lost, you could simply reissue the claim in Spain directly or via a claims for.

[hugog]

Thanks – so on the reason we received when the delay notification was given it said operational reasons
They then said we are sorry – late arrival of previous plane – the word extraordinary circumstances have not appeared on any email
I appealed and they gave me 3000 Avios – which I did not ask for but still no mention of the correct legislation
I am still awaiting to hear
They have not officially rejected things yet!
So, it was an Avios flight with a companion voucher so no issue on some of the things you mention.
So I assume if I do decide to do it myself I use their address at waterside.
The problem with MCOL is I would never be able to go beyond the initial stage – if it got to hearing I would not be able to go through it as a teacher with set hours nor would I want to

[JDB]

@hugog – I understand your reticence although Iberia is probably just as reluctant as you to go to a hearing because they will lose unless they have an ‘extraordinary circumstances’ defence. Most aviation cases these days are considered on the papers, so no attendance required but because of the jurisdictional issue, one might want an oral hearing. Even Iberia’s expensive solicitors are too scared to draft any documents let alone attend court, so they instruct counsel and double up the costs.

Perhaps the best route for now is to press Iberia, making it clear that if they fail to co-operate and take your legitimate claim seriously, you will have no hesitation in issuing court proceedings in the UK or Spain which will incur considerable time and cost for both parties and have an inevitable conclusion. You need to be very firm and businesslike with them and make clear that no court will accept “operational reasons” and/or a delay announced a day in advance to constitute any sort of ‘extraordinary circumstances’ defence. If you get stuck you can escalate to the legal team cacgestionjuridica and CEO office presidencia both at iberia.es

[Londonsteve]

Fantastic advice, JDB. Hat tip.