Forums › Other › Flight changes and cancellations help › Lufthansa EU compensation – help please
-
So my wife son and I were booked to travel 27 July 2022 with Lufthansa to Colombia. 24 hrs b4 they cancelled due to their staff strike. Took me 400+ calls to finally get a flight move 4 days later. Wrote and made a claim to their CS’s. They waited the maximum 1 day less than 2 months and then offered me £750. I then replied no and would start Sop case. Sop case opened 21/10. They (sop) have emailed me this morning stating “We process conciliation requests in the order in which we receive them. It is expected to take some time before we can address your case. ”
Is there anything I can/should do? It just feels to me that Lufthansa and regulator are just delaying and delaying in the hope I will go away or that they can get more money into the coffers by selling tickets.
Any advice would be really appreciated and i realise i may be being cheeky asking, but its £1580 and seeing as we lost 4 days holiday with my wife’s family i feel they should be held financially responsible.
Sounds like you’ll get it eventually, Lufthansa must be absolutely swamped with claims due to the strikes and other disruptions this summer
I was actually in Colombia flying home then, but the day after. The flight the day before had been cancelled and I had to speak to the (excellent) LH Colombia office about something and they mentioned they had been busy rerouting everyone onto other airlines but had managed to get everyone out the same or next day. Shame you didn’t get the same service coming the other way!
One tip I did find online which seemed to work was calling different Lufthansa numbers worldwide can connect you to someone, which did seem to work. Unfortunately they were incompetent in handling my situation but that’s another story 😆
So in cases like this, it is important to be factual. If it really took you 400 calls, make sure you have the documentary evidence for this.
You have not said where the flight was from. If it was from the UK or the EU, you will be entitled to EC261 compensation for the delay. This will be €600 each. You will also be entitled to hotel, food, and a couple of phone calls for the delayed time between when the flight should have gone and did go, at your origin. You will not be entitled to the costs lost for hotel/trips booked at the holiday destination due to you arriving late. This should be claimed off travel insurance.
As it’s gone to a conciliation service, I wouldn’t do anything more for now.I’m future, under Article 8(1) EC261, you are entitled to rerouting on the first available flight (even on another airline, if LH can’t do within 24h).
As above, if Söp is on the case, there is little more you can do at this point. Unfortunately LH won’t pay/won’t be told to pay for all the trouble they caused, nor the consequential losses, but once you have confirmation of that, you may be able to claim on insurance for those losses.
You have not said where the flight was from.
The flight was on Lufthansa so departure point makes no difference to any claim.
You have not said where the flight was from.
The flight was on Lufthansa so departure point makes no difference to any claim.
Incorrect. If the flight was from anywhere outside the UK/EU to Colombia, on one ticket, the EC261 will not apply.
Hi all and thanks for all the info. Just to clarify we were booked from UK to Colombia via Frankfurt. I think my annoyance is that Lufthansa didn’t want to do anything spectacular due to the fare class we had purchased (3X business in a “sale”), hence when we started trying to contact them at first they wanted us to travel on the 4th August and weren’t prepared to offer anything else! Eventually they were “persuaded” to change to the following Sunday (from the 27th). They then waited 1 day to the 2 months they had to respond to my original email and offered £750. Took them to Sop in October but op are basically saying, sorry we will get to you when we get to you. Case seems open and close from what I understand -the strike was their own people, Lufthansa) and they just seem to want to wriggle out of paying anybody/correct amounts. Seems like it will drag on till Lufthansa have got enough revenue in to play people- joke as a far I am concerned and despite the flight being good I will revert to KLM/Air France for future flights!
It’s not about revenue, it’s simply a war of attrition. Many don’t claim because they don’t know they can or know it will be a pain. They then fob people off at stage 1, fob a few more people off when they remonstrate and they win quite a few cases at arbitration/court. It’s unfortunately a very effective way of limiting payouts and a route followed by most airlines.
Incorrect. If the flight was from anywhere outside the UK/EU to Colombia, on one ticket, the EC261 will not apply.
If the flight was direct from outside UK/EU to Colombia on LH then you’re correct (eg a 5th freedom route from elsewhere in South America to Colombia).
If it was, for example, IST-FRA-BOG then on LH both flights are covered by EU261 – one into the EU and one out of it. Similarly USA-UK-India on BA is covered by the UK version.
just an update, lufthansa waited till the last minute then i got an email from sop stating “With your conciliation request dated 21 October 2022 you have made a claim against Deutsche Lufthansa AG amounting to 1,800.00 EUR. Deutsche Lufthansa AG informed us that the claim is fully acknowledged without the recognition of a legal obligation (payment amounting to 1,800.00 EUR).
This settles the case without the need for a conciliation process including a legal examination by söp due to the “immediate recognition“ according to § 9 (3) söp_Rules of Procedure.”
that was a month ago, no response from Lufthansa to me – despite emails sent- and needless to say no money. Are sop complicit in this in that Lufthansa are just not repaying full stop? Do i need to go to the UK County Court system?
You have not said where the flight was from.
The flight was on Lufthansa so departure point makes no difference to any claim.
Incorrect. If the flight was from anywhere outside the UK/EU to Colombia, on one ticket, the EC261 will not apply.
@points_worrier incorrect. Lufthansa is a UK or Europe based airline and so full EU261 rules (including compensation) apply to all their routes round the world and absolutely 100% no question, EU261 applies for flight routings on LH from anywhere ending back in UK or Europe.
There are some very niche route exceptions to this for UK Eur based airlines but this is not one of them.
PS @points_worrier I loved your succinct earlier reply above but need to clarify on your later reply.
just an update, lufthansa waited till the last minute then i got an email from sop stating “With your conciliation request dated 21 October 2022 you have made a claim against Deutsche Lufthansa AG amounting to 1,800.00 EUR. Deutsche Lufthansa AG informed us that the claim is fully acknowledged without the recognition of a legal obligation (payment amounting to 1,800.00 EUR).
This settles the case without the need for a conciliation process including a legal examination by söp due to the “immediate recognition“ according to § 9 (3) söp_Rules of Procedure.”
that was a month ago, no response from Lufthansa to me – despite emails sent- and needless to say no money. Are sop complicit in this in that Lufthansa are just not repaying full stop? Do i need to go to the UK County Court system?
Contact SOP about what are the rules for when you should be paid by LH and see if they can help.
On no account do an MCOL – you’ve got so far with SOP
A new LH Complaint surrounding this weeks Skrikes. Your help and advice appreciated. Never had to deal with flight cancellations/compos before so any help is appreciated.
The process of event as experience by me as set out as follows:
– Booked RTN Business Class flying MAN-FRA-TLL, OUT AM 24th Mar and RTN PM 27th Mar
– Checked-in online AM 23rd Mar, all flights listed as on-time
– PM 23rd Mar, received an email telling me that the RTN 27th Mar TLL-FRA-MAN flights have been cancelled due to strike action (less than 4 days before flight)and that due to high cancellation volumes, not been possible to re-book flights at that time and told to keep checking app for updates
– Over the next 24 hours, impossible to get in touch with LH, webchat crashed and CS number constantly engaged
– Evening of the 24th, I received notification I had been rebooked on new flight, evening of 28th Mar, arrival over 28 hours later than originally booked
– Over preceding 48 hours, near impossible to get in touch with LH (CS or we chat) to discuss rebook alternative flights or additional accommodation. Ended up just extending my stay at my hotel by additional day
– Caught re-booked flight as planned, again arriving back in MAN 28 hours after originally planned.
So my questions:
– where do I start?
– lodged compensation claim on LH website. Holding email said it could take approx 6 weeks for answer. No details (extra costs etc) we’re requested, just flight details
– when do I contact airline/insurance. Airline first and then insurance?
– do I only involve lawyers after above 2 have been exhausted?
– i hear EU261 compo does not apply to industrial action outside of airline, is this true?
– is it reasonable or in line with law only being notified of cancelation of RTN flight after checkin-in for OUT flight, with less than 4 days notice when strikes would have been announced weeks in advance, or does this not matter? Or just poor luck…
Between extra hotel costs, food and taxi, an extra €200-€250 was spent.
Any advice appreciated. Thank you in advance!!!
no compo but all extra hotels and meals cost claimable from Lufthansa if they were the operator of the cancelled flight.
claim first off Lufthansa, go to SOP (google on HfP for forum comments about a couple of recent claims ignored or refused by LH that went to them), personally I’d chase my claim with LH monthly for at least 3 months in current circs before going to SOP so read up on requirements before they will take a claim if you can meanwhile. Lufthansa may also just pay but as they are genuinely swamped I’d want to give them as much time as I could to.
I’d do SOP as they seem more effective than any arbitration in UK, where I think you can also possibly claim as your journey is from MAN and return on one ticket, and although I suspect waiting time with SOP could be considerable I am certain they would get it sorted and less stressfully than MCOL but that’s just my take (MCOL should also work if LH doesn’t pay up – though I think they will -but more stressful and some cost.)
no compo but all extra hotels and meals cost claimable from Lufthansa if they were the operator of the cancelled flight.
claim first off Lufthansa, go to SOP (google on HfP for forum comments about a couple of recent claims ignored or refused by LH that went to them), personally I’d chase my claim with LH monthly for at least 3 months in current circs before going to SOP so read up on requirements before they will take a claim if you can meanwhile. Lufthansa may also just pay but as they are genuinely swamped I’d want to give them as much time as I could to.
I’d do SOP as they seem more effective than any arbitration in UK, where I think you can also possibly claim as your journey is from MAN and return on one ticket, and although I suspect waiting time with SOP could be considerable I am certain they would get it sorted and less stressfully than MCOL but that’s just my take (MCOL should also work if LH doesn’t pay up – though I think they will -but more stressful and some cost.)
Thank you Lady London, this is horrifically useful and i am in the process of claiming costs from LH now.
A few questions though as i have NEVER done this before…. What is SOP? A google search suggests its Standard Operating Procedure (?) but how do i set one of these up and where do i look. Sorry not expecting you to teach or explain but have you any websites/companies i can look at to explain? Also the same for MCOL?
Apologies, this is a very technical area and seems lots of people have lots of knowledge and experience… just need to know where to look.
Kindest regards,
Neilno compo but all extra hotels and meals cost claimable from Lufthansa if they were the operator of the cancelled flight.
claim first off Lufthansa, go to SOP (google on HfP for forum comments about a couple of recent claims ignored or refused by LH that went to them), personally I’d chase my claim with LH monthly for at least 3 months in current circs before going to SOP so read up on requirements before they will take a claim if you can meanwhile. Lufthansa may also just pay but as they are genuinely swamped I’d want to give them as much time as I could to.
I’d do SOP as they seem more effective than any arbitration in UK, where I think you can also possibly claim as your journey is from MAN and return on one ticket, and although I suspect waiting time with SOP could be considerable I am certain they would get it sorted and less stressfully than MCOL but that’s just my take (MCOL should also work if LH doesn’t pay up – though I think they will -but more stressful and some cost.)
Thank you Lady London, this is horrifically useful and i am in the process of claiming costs from LH now.
A few questions though as i have NEVER done this before…. What is SOP? A google search suggests its Standard Operating Procedure (?) but how do i set one of these up and where do i look. Sorry not expecting you to teach or explain but have you any websites/companies i can look at to explain? Also the same for MCOL?
Apologies, this is a very technical area and seems lots of people have lots of knowledge and experience… just need to know where to look.
Kindest regards,
NeilJust google it on the site – it stands for its German title which must be Staatliche Öffentliche P(for something meaning conciliation) though I do think given enough time LH will pay you especially if you don’t also mistakenly try to claim compo
That makes a lot more sense… Well in my ignorance and not realising Industrial Action was not covered by EU261 I did submit a claim but his was promptly rejected. Receipts and costs now formally submitted to Lufthansa so will await what they say. According to SOP I have to allow up to 2 months for LH to reply so now the ball is rolling, wish me luck.
interestingly i have read their have been court cases in Germany with TUI and Denmark with SAS that ruled Industrial Action isn’t an automatic “get out of jail card” for airlines regarding EU261 and that the airlines still have to act in a timely and reasonable manner to avoid compensation, but alas just because its on the internet doesn’t make it true… do we know anything about this?
@nwoody2001 I think the two judgments to which you are referring (AirHelp v Scandinavian Airline Systems and Helga Krüsemann and Others v TUIfly) did clarify matters pertaining to strikes or wildcat action by an airline’s own staff or agents when compensation becomes payable. However, the strikes in Germany affected the whole transport sector so it’s unlikely compensation will be payable.
Yes that was my understanding. I can’t help that airlines do fall back on to this somewhat, but maybe im just speaking out of turn.
In my case, LH will have known the strikes were due weeks in advance, yet they waited less than 4 days to cancel my rtn flight after i checked in for my outbound flight. It then took them 36 hours to rebook my flight for a flight over 29 hours later than originally planned, and then was uncontactable (be web of phone likely because they would have been overwhelmed). There was no information send about food, accommodation or re-routing and it was impossible to contact them to query such a thing. There were numerous flights available on the day I booked via HEL/RIG/LHR/CDG and even IST but no means to communicate this. I have no doubt between the airline and/or insurance i’ll be able to recover additional costs incurred but if they made such decisions when the strikes were announced im sure things could have been dealt with better…
apologies ill get off my high-horse now!
@nwoody2001 you can argue that case with LH and then
SöP, their arbitrator with a better prospect of success under EC261 than UK. I think it was @AJA who in a different thread today helpfully referenced the Case C-74/19 LE vs TAP which discusses the efforts an airline needs to made to reroute pax if they wish to claim extraordinary circumstances. I hope you have kept evidence or at worst now make a list of all the options that would have been open to LH to rebook you on. Write back to them with those details.Ok so by way of an updated, this following events have taken place.
– Compensation claim lodged with Lufthansa and declined stating (as expected) exceptional circumstances
– Reimbursement of cost lodged with Lufthansa and has been approved, pretty impressive and in less than 1 week having been asked to allow up to 10!Is this now the event to lodge my complaint with SOP to make the case above?
Ok so by way of an updated, this following events have taken place.
– Compensation claim lodged with Lufthansa and declined stating (as expected) exceptional circumstances
– Reimbursement of cost lodged with Lufthansa and has been approved, pretty impressive and in less than 1 week having been asked to allow up to 10!Is this now the event to lodge my complaint with SOP to make the case above?
Good to get the expenses reimbursed, now for the difficult bit. If LH has refused, you should be able to go to SöP. You need to formulate precisely how LH failed to take adequate reasonable measures to reroute and assist your cancelled journey to a sufficient degree that it effectively invalidates the ‘exceptional circumstances’ defence. From what you say, there was nothing in the app that offered you the opportunity to rebook (as eg BA often does in the event of disruption) and having failed to offer a technological solution failed to roster sufficient staff to handle the inevitable passenger calls resulting from the strike. LH was negligent in failing to plan adequately to rebook passengers whose flights they knew would be cancelled. Did the strike involve any of their staff – it was across the sector, but maybe some LH staff were also on strike? They failed to provide the high degree of protection supposed to be afforded by EC261 and ??didn’t advise you of your rights under EC261, let alone provide such rights within any reasonable timeframe. List all your attempts to contact the airline and all the availability of alternative routings they didn’t book you on. It’s a bit of a long shot should, so you will need to be very robust and provide as much detail as you can, plus cite the TAP case.
Kinda included in JDB’s above but to add to the bish-bash list of Lufthansa’s start-position of ignoring EU261 required actions, it looks like LH also breached Article 14 of EC261/2004 in not informing you of all your rights including rerouting at the time they cancelled.
I’m also interpreting from LH’s inclusion of SoP’s name in an early communication to you that LH does take note of SoP and prefers not to be referred to them…which is good news.
Would be grateful if you could keep us informed as the TAP case found by AJA and mentioned by JDB could make a big difference to settlement of claims if it becomes used widely.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
New to Head for Points?
Welcome! We’re the UK’s most-read source of business travel, Avios, frequent flyer and hotel loyalty news. Let us improve how you travel. Got any questions? Ask them in our forums.
Latest Forum Posts
-
travelmonkey on Am I using our 241 vouchers and Avios points efficiently in this booking?
-
YC on Am I using our 241 vouchers and Avios points efficiently in this booking?
-
-
Aston100 on Better to book a TK direct or with a ticket selling agent
-
FearlessTraveller on Plutus. Trial coming to end. What to do?
-
drdan on Better to book a TK direct or with a ticket selling agent
-
can2 on Curve Card and HMRC
-
t0m on Chat thread – Friday 19th April
-
-
BA Flyer IHG Stayer on Help needed! Virgin Atlantic suspended my account for fraud without explanations
Get 40,000 bonus points (worth 40,000 Avios) and £300 dining credit with The Platinum Card
Check reward flight availability instantly for free!
Get £10 when you spend £150 on your free Currensea card
Booking a luxury hotel?
Our luxury hotel booking service offers you GUARANTEED extra benefits over booking direct. Works with Four Seasons, Mandarin Oriental, The Ritz Carlton, St Regis and more. We've booked £1.7 million of rooms to date. Click for details.
SME? SPECIAL OFFER TO 12TH MAY EARN POINTS WORTH 30,000 AVIOS WITH CAPITAL ON TAP
Get 20,000 bonus points, four airport lounge passes and your first year free with American Express Gold
