Forums › Frequent flyer programs › British Airways Executive Club › Unpopular opinion: BA has made a bold move to preserve exclusivity
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I’ve always thought airlines were nearer to 2-3%. We’re constantly hearing that it’s a low profit industry.
Airlines in general yes. BA is quite more profitable than average (didn’t check if the 10% is correct or not).
I’m wondering if it will go the other way. I can’t be the only one who booked a business flight on a domestic during the sales, and up to 10 months in advance to get 80 tier points for about £160.
If demand for ClubEurope drops, will we potentially see domestic flights going back to all-economy?
I think this is partly the reason for the changes. BA has given away status far too cheaply and easily (even if it was their choice to do so). Now they are trying to reset the parameters but perhaps have gone too far in the other direction – time will tell.
I don’t think they will go as far as dropping CE from domestic flights. More likely the cabins will be smaller which is easily done thanks to that moveable curtain but also there will probably be aggressive upgrade offers to persuade people to sit at the front or maybe even freebie upgrades to people to persuade them that it’s worth it.
And more likely they can just open up space to last minute high fare paying business passengers. The reality is if they cheaply sell out the cabin to people buying ten months in advance they can’t really sell seats to last minute passengers especially as the preferred seats will likely have been preselected by those with status.
I am curious how many people will actually abandon BA. Lots say they will and yet the premium cabins are always full despite the IT failures, brunchgate, last minute cancellations, people saying lounges are overcrowded zoos with crap catering and aircraft are dirty etc.
I doubt I will reach Silver again let alone the heady heights of Gold and GGL but that won’t stop me flying BA given LHR is my preferred airport and it flies at convenient times to places I want to go to. But I will likely be as happy flying business class on another airline as the changes to the tier points required make it less likely I will ever spend enough with BA to do so. I will wait to see what the t&Cs of the tier points for spending on the BAPP will actually require because it is possible I will be able to regain Bronze status under the new scheme which given I fly business class anyway is really all I need. With fewer Gold and Silver Members preselecting seats for free at time of purchase the 7 day window may just become a more valuable perk.
A Facebook post in a group the other day revealed that a significant portion of BAs business comes from just 6 London boroughs. From Richmond, to Hampstead.
I’m staggered.
So much spend from locations where the majority of the UK’s biggest companies (including travel agents) have their registered address?
Wonder how much came from EH1 pre-2008. The domestics were a sea of ties bearing the “daisy wheel” and “chips ‘n peas”.
If demand for ClubEurope drops, will we potentially see domestic flights going back to all-economy?
They should just rename it economy plus.
London Airways, indeed!
Absolutely!
LHR is my local airport and thus BA is likely still going to be my main airline because they easily have the best network from there, however much I try to find other experiences (eg. IcelandAir or KM Malta business – I’d recommend both!). Time is crucial for us on short haul flights, hence an aversion to connecting flights, and the tier point change won’t alter that. What it will change is my behaviour on long haul cash fares. To see the eclipse last last year I built a great ex-EU itinerary but only considered one world carriers so I could get status. I’ll now be looking at other alliances next time I do similar.
If you’re elsewhere in the UK and therefore connect at Heathrow for BA destinations then I can totally understand the attraction of throwing your lot in with other airlines now. “Some bloke who travels” released a video about moving to Lufthansa and in his situation I don’t blame him. https://youtu.be/AXOYxZ97218?si=7kiM1OFl4dYunQIk
I won’t work for me though…
London Airways, indeed!
Thing is, what else is there?
When I worked in the Canaries, people used to use Monarch as well. But everybody in the North was Easyjet and Jet2.
So I’m not sure there was ever a viable alternative. And this whole country has been London-centric forever anyway.
London Airways, indeed!
Absolutely!
LHR is my local airport and thus BA is likely still going to be my main airline because they easily have the best network from there, however much I try to find other experiences (eg. IcelandAir or KM Malta business – I’d recommend both!). Time is crucial for us on short haul flights, hence an aversion to connecting flights, and the tier point change won’t alter that. What it will change is my behaviour on long haul cash fares. To see the eclipse last last year I built a great ex-EU itinerary but only considered one world carriers so I could get status. I’ll now be looking at other alliances next time I do similar
It really depends on where you intend to fly in the future. Star Alliance 1st and then Skyteam are the ones to go for and I’m a bit gutted that I didn’t go for a recent Star Alliance status match.
Oneworld is largely irrelevent outside London in the UK, South America and various other places in the world. In the US, AA are ridiculous in terms of cancellations and rescheduling if you book a long way in advance, so only Alaska routes are relevent in the US.
If you always fly Club, Silver status is practically worthless. For Gold, First Wing and First Class lounges outside LHR T5 are nice but not life-changing.
But BA probably loses money when a Silver flies in economy. The £100 fare simply can’t cover two lounge visits and an extra legroom seat.
So BA must make enough extra profit on the Gold/Silver qualification flights in Club to cover the subsequent loss making economy flights. Tier point runs break the economics. When only a few people did it, BA didn’t care. When cheaply attained status became widespread, BA started caring.
Change was economically unavoidable. There’s no point crying over it. BA exists to make money for its shareholders.
But BA probably loses money when a Silver flies in economy. The £100 fare simply can’t cover two lounge visits and an extra legroom seat.
The lounge visits cost very little in terms of marginal cost.
The problem is not with costs, it’s more that BA wants to retain elites that spend £20k but don’t want to be in the poor quality lounges which are also crowded now.
BA better have a plan to improve the lounges when numbers get trimmed.
We also forget that airline industry is hugely cyclical. When next recession hits, don’t be surprised if BA cuts the requirements massively.
Remember that the BAH route became attractive only since Covid.Talking about lounges, last week in the 5B lounge, there was a well dressed woman shouting ‘disgusting’ repeatedly.
There’s always someone flying BA first time.Alternative argument to the complaining.
https://www.godsavethepoints.com/british-airways-changes-adult-babies-throwing-toys/
The lounge visits cost very little in terms of marginal cost.
Most destinations outside the UK are served by contract lounges that will charge at least £20 per person, and I imagine visits to the Cathay First lounge in T3 cost BA at least £80.
As for T5, no-one runs a business solely on marginal cost, and marginal cost is never used where the resource is scarce. The BA lounges are already over-full, so BA must increase capacity or reduce usage. Given the superior food and dark offering in the BA lounge compared with PP lounges, I expect BA attributes an internal charge of £30 or more for lounge access.
So, that £100 economy class ticket costs BA £50 for lounge access and £13 APD. If the flight starts in Edinburgh or a guest is bought, the position is even worse.
Result: unhappiness for BA.
I am curious how many people will actually abandon BA. Lots say they will and yet the premium cabins are always full despite the IT failures, brunchgate, last minute cancellations, people saying lounges are overcrowded zoos with crap catering and aircraft are dirty etc.
Probably not very many. But plenty have said here — and I have no doubt they mean it — they will shift some spend away, because they will look more favourably at alternatives. That’s the money BA will loose (along with a smaller amount from people flying BA and crediting to another one world airline, I believe there is some revenue sent to the “credited to” airline). I can see my BA cash fares and holiday bookings dropping to nil.
We have a very UK biased view here, don’t forget there are people all over the world crediting to BA, scraping in the minimum four flights every two years, clocking up the required TPs for Silver or Gold, and costing BA money every time they visit a lounge run by AA or Cathay. I suspect that cost will have been mounting, not reducing, as other FFPs moved to a “dollars paid” basis for status and more people abandoned their “home” programme and discovered BAEC.
It’s a shame, I think BA probably just went from one extreme to another. They could have scrapped the arbitrary 40/80 boundaries and gone for multiples of distance, required more BA flights (or make them credit more per mile), removed 12/24 month rules and done a rolling look-back. Instead they’ve removed everyone from status who might benefit from it, which, along with the recent Avios earning changes, leaves me with no incentive not to credit to another scheme, or fly in another alliance. There are going to be very, very large numbers of people in the same place as me. Many will stick with BAEC out of a lock of understanding of the alternatives, or default to BA as it is Heathrow and direct, but lots of savvy frequent flyers won’t.
For the first time ever this year I have SkyTeam Silver. Not much, but any cash flights are going that way for me, for now. OneWorld will be credited to Alaska (pending advice from @Rob to the contrary). Not quite “never flying BA” but I can see it being years before I buy another full price ticket.
Slow hand clap for the loyalty team please…
A Facebook post in a group the other day revealed that a significant portion of BAs business comes from just 6 London boroughs. From Richmond, to Hampstead.
Indeed, this fact was actually given in BA’s own Investor Day presentation – see page 19: https://www.iairgroup.com/media/1d4l44gu/british-airways-investor-insight-day-2024.pdf
Maybe SW Airways is even more appropriate @NorthernLass ?
Michelle of TLFL is not happy:
https://www.turningleftforless.com/an-open-letter-to-british-airways-ceo-sean-doyle/
The letter conflates lower Covid TP thresholds with current overcrowding but I do agree with her that it seems counterintuitive that BA would chase corporate travellers over leisure travellers when the former is unlikely to ever grow again.
Michelle of TLFL is not happy:
https://www.turningleftforless.com/an-open-letter-to-british-airways-ceo-sean-doyle/
The letter conflates lower Covid TP thresholds with current overcrowding but I do agree with her that it seems counterintuitive that BA would chase corporate travellers over leisure travellers when the former is unlikely to ever grow again.
The former brings in the highest marginal revenue while the latter demand is largely inelastic.
Try telling your partner and children you are taking them on a one stop flight when a direct flight is available and within your budget, wasting 3-4 hours minimum of precious vacation time instead dragging them around airports.
@BBbetter it all rather depends upon which sector will grow. I work in a very cash rich business and we have zero interest in growing travel budgets. That seems true for our customers and suppliers too. Work has changed forever.
Michelle of TLFL is not happy:
https://www.turningleftforless.com/an-open-letter-to-british-airways-ceo-sean-doyle/
The letter conflates lower Covid TP thresholds with current overcrowding but I do agree with her that it seems counterintuitive that BA would chase corporate travellers over leisure travellers when the former is unlikely to ever grow again.
Is anyone out there still benefittign from the covid status extentions?
Because I don’t think there are and it’s now a non issue. Anyone in a lounge these days either has it via status they have earned and paid for via flying or becasue their ticket allows for it.
Blaiming people for taking up the BA Hols offer isn’t the way to go either The people earning status that way have still paid for it one way ot another.
Yep. Travelling at my company now involves Director-level approval, when before it was just project managers/line managers, or whoever was relevant to the task at hand. The form basically asks why we can’t do this over Teams instead of travelling. Clients also ask for meetings in person much less now (and are many times surprised when we propose to travel; before it was common for clients to come to us all the time, without us even asking – or wanting them here!).
Travelling in business class is now also much more restricted (need to arrive for a meeting shortly afterwards, etc.), when before on any trip over 6 hours it was a given. For this one the excuse is the environment, to reduce GHG emissions of the company.EDIT: this was in response to @masaccio.
So given all the changes in travel policy mentioned here and elsewhere since Covid, who are these companies that Rob said are paying £12k for fully flex business class tickets to New York?
I presume these are the exotic beasts being targeted by BA now.Earlier in the thread he suggested that if a company does do this, they are more likely to shop around for status as they bag Gold after two such flights and can go status shopping elsewhere.
There are many airports were there really is no exclusivity to preserve.
Does a First class passenger on the most expensive fares get driven in a lovely car from T5’s Concorde room to their aircraft?
Has BA ever really understood what its high spending passengers really want in terms of exclusivity?
So given all the changes in travel policy mentioned here and elsewhere since Covid, who are these companies that Rob said are paying £12k for fully flex business class tickets to New York?
I presume these are the exotic beasts being targeted by BA now.Aston, the London based corporates may be stagnant or even shrinking since brexit, but for Americans, £12k is chicken feed.
I was on a BA flight from India and half the business class pax were families connecting to US, mostly working for tech companies. Average salaries in tech are USD 200k+.
We need to get out of the mindset that world revolves around London. Every corporate is trying to woo the Americans.
The question is would these people really be booking directly with BA or crediting to BA?There are many airports were there really is no exclusivity to preserve.
Does a First class passenger on the most expensive fares get driven in a lovely car from T5’s Concorde room to their aircraft?
Has BA ever really understood what its high spending passengers really want in terms of exclusivity?
Ha. Although I definitely wasn’t on an expensive fare, my visit to the CCR in November culminated in a bus journey from A10 😂
Aston, the London based corporates may be stagnant or even shrinking since brexit, but for Americans, £12k is chicken feed.
I was on a BA flight from India and half the business class pax were families connecting to US, mostly working for tech companies. Average salaries in tech are USD 200k+.
We need to get out of the mindset that world revolves around London. Every corporate is trying to woo the Americans.
The question is would these people really be booking directly with BA or crediting to BA?https://x.com/armankhon/status/1874857900361015624?s=46
$160k for a grad.
Who gives a toss about poor Brits.
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