British Airways clamping down on dropped final legs of ex-EU tickets

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• Waribai says:

  20 Jul20 July 05:29

  I couldn’t see much mileage (excuse the Minday morning pun!) in BA pursuing the legal route. I could see that they might get vengeful though and close your BAEC account.

  • RIccati says:

    20 Jul20 July 05:35

    It’s like giving a toy (fare) to a kid and then withdraw their dessert because they played with the toy not in the way you imagined.

    People will ALWAYS use a product/technology in unexpected and unintended ways.

    • jonboy73 says:

      20 Jul20 July 06:30

      Yes but.. in this case… us kids created websites and discussed at length, right under their noses, ways to play with the toy to create the maximum annoyance and eat the least amount of dinner before getting dessert. Lol

      It was only a matter of time Imho.

      • RIccati says:

        20 Jul20 July 19:32

        As you might’ve noticed, kids do not play any other way than to create the maximum annoyance. The nature of creativity. The louder and squeakier the better. It’s exciting!

• RIccati says:

  20 Jul20 July 05:32

  If BA would like to pursue a customer for not fulfilling their obligations under a contract while they were able to (if we treat the ticket as such a contract, it might be the right but not an obligation), the burden of proof would be on BA.

  If someone self-certifies themselves as unfit to travel, it’s BA who should seek the proof to the contrary (not you who should supply a doctor’s note).

  Any lawyers to correct this?

  • Jimmy says:

    20 Jul20 July 10:12

    I would love someone to test this in a court. If ever I have the opportunity to, I will!

    My own (semi-educated) guess is that while a US court might find for the airline on the basis that you ‘signed’ the contract so you should fulfil it, a European court would likely rule that the relevant conditions are either unfair or unenforceable.

    Realistically I don’t think it will ever get to court. Indeed, they’d be brave even to bill people for ‘missing’ revenue. BA would blink first rather than risking having it categorically established that they’re onto a loser.

    Far more effective is to scare people from time to time and put about the rumour that they could – if they wanted to – but, y’know, they don’t really … but they could … so, watch it.

• Stu R says:

  20 Jul20 July 05:38

  British Airways really has gone to the wall. Once proclaiming themselves as ‘the World’s favourite airline’, I doubt they’re even in the top 25 now?

  Instead of bleating about the ME3 and Turkish, it’s time they completely overhauled their product (including a complete redesign of Club World as I really don’t want folks climbing over me in flight, and those ‘cubicles’ are quite claustrophobic) and made sure they have ample food choices and champers to last an entire flight.

  For example, choosing between BA & QR isn’t a choice; the QR 330/777 old style business is way better than BA, and the 787/350/380 knocks spots off BA – and QR’s food and service is also streets ahead!

  It’s come to the point now where if you get on a BA Club World flight, think ‘this will be bad’ from the outset, then anything else is a bonus ….

  • Polly says:

    20 Jul20 July 09:09

    Agree completely, which is why we actually cancelled out BA 241 in F and are now flying QR J from CPH. The 1-2-1 config is fantastic. No climbing over anyone else’s legs etc. And re used our 241 next March. As you say, it’s no contest. Hate to say it but their J cabins are even more spacious than BA F on some planes. BA really ought to decrease the number of seats in J, at least to a 2-2-2 format. As the ba staff on biz traveller note, J is rarely full, and that says it all, really.

    • Stu R says:

      20 Jul20 July 19:03

      We did exactly the same, we ‘were’ booked on BA in F to Japan for the fall colours but decided we’d rather have 2 weeks in sun so we’re flying with QR to BKK in J instead – never more happy given we live in Scotland and the weather this summer’s been dire – at least we have some sun to look forward to!

      I have flown on BA in J and the service was appalling. I also have colleagues who’ve recently travelled and instances of no champagne or running out 2 hours into the flights have both been encountered.

      So, as far as BA are concerned, they can offer all they like from Europe but I’d rather save my cash for the QR deals so they won’t be pursuing me for an unblown leg any time soon 😉

      • Stu R says:

        20 Jul20 July 19:07

        * unflown *

        • Will says:

          21 Jul21 July 07:37

          Sounded like a spurious DVT claim for a moment!

  • Ronster says:

    20 Jul20 July 13:58

    Its important to understand why BA has not chosen to update its Ying-Yang Club design just yet. One of the major reasons, I believe would be simply down to business sense. With the new First class being introduced, if BA had also introduced a product that was similar , then there would be little incentive for people to actually either buy/redeem for a first class ticket or even upgrade to first from Club.

    There have been patented designs of a possible new Business class seating(with direct isle access), that BA might introduce one day but whether they do is anyones guess.

    I’m happy to stick to my ONLY F class redemption policy when it comes to BA. I’m certainly looking forward to our far eastern trip in BA F. Though I am aware of QR’s excellent J product, it most certainly is not a F product. Also I much prefer the direct service where I will be able to hopefully get a good uninterrupted sleep, without having to change in the middle east.

    With 42 787-9 and 787-10’s on order it will be a difficult choice of where to choose to burn my 2-4-1 vouchers.

    One thing that I would like to see introduced, would be a 2-4-1 oneworld voucher scheme with Amex.

    Not that would indeed be interesting?!

    • Polly says:

      20 Jul20 July 18:39

      Agree with you, of course the direct F service is great, and we slept most of the way to HKG. But this QR J ticket allowed us to divide our trip into 2 hols which is such a treat for us. As I managed to get really really good deals on hotels in Asia when changing our flights. We, like you only ever managed the one 241 F trip a year, but QR J does feel really spacious, and that’s what I meant by comparing it to BA F.

      Love your idea of an amex OW 241. Now that’s an original thought. Don’t think BA would want to refund any other OW carrier the cost of an F 241 say on CX to Australia! Great out of the box thinking. Maybe when BA send us a survey we should be suggesting this to them…bad enough that we can’t even change our FF number on the BA site.

    • RIccati says:

      20 Jul20 July 19:40

      But we do not care for BA First. They lost that luxury segment.

      98% of the travellers would step into CW and say if this is how Business is like, then what’s First is going to be.

      I think BA benchmarked against the older “First” of the US airlines (American, etc) which is hardly a luxurious experience by today’s standards.

    • Josh says:

      25 Jul25 July 04:08

      BA really need to update Club World, because basically it sucks. Having Club World the way it is is not encouraging people to pay more for a first class BA ticket, it is just encouraging them to pay for a business class ticket on a different airline.

      The only reason to fly BA Club World is:
      – they are the only airline available to you flying that route
      – they are cheap
      – you need the 96kg baggage allowance

      I think Club World was once a leading product, but it has now been overtaken and left far, far behind.

• sandgrounder says:

  20 Jul20 July 05:42

  http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/legal/british-airways/general-conditions-of-carriage?DM1_Channel=AFF&DM1_Campaign=UKI_GB_EN_PHG_ALWAYSON&DM1_Site=PHG&utm_source=PHG&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=UKI_GB_EN_PHG_ALWAYSON

  Section 3c.

  Unless I have missed something, the only sanctions are refusal to carry. People change their plans, and on a non refundable ticket you lose your money. They certainly could take your Avios though I would imagine.

  • sandgrounder says:

    20 Jul20 July 05:53

    You can be sancioned with suspension or termination for:

    “”Misconduct”

    includes:

    failure to comply with these Terms and Conditions or the terms and conditions of a Service or Airline Partner; or
    attempting to obtain Tier Points or Avios points by Fraud; or
    misusing the Services; or
    misconduct on board a British Airways or Airline Partner’s flight or in a Lounge or while checking-in; or
    misconduct in dealing with British Airways’ staff or the staff of any Service Partner; or
    failure to comply with the applicable General Conditions of Carriage for Passengers and Baggage and any other applicable rules and regulations.”

    You may well lose your BAEC account, but is anyone aware of precident?

    Re the extra charge, I know ferry companies have done this for day trips with a missed return, but in that case the contract explicitly says that you agree to pay the difference if you don’t return on time.

  • RIccati says:

    20 Jul20 July 06:07

    There is also a useful section,

    3c4) If you need to change any aspect of your transportation because of events beyond your control, you must contact us as soon as possible. We will use reasonable efforts to transport you to your next stopover or final destination, without re-calculating the fare.

  • Calchas says:

    21 Jul21 July 16:15

    Aye. There is no basis in the contract for what Raffles has suggested in his post. Even if there were, it would be easy to argue it was a penalty clause and therefore not enforceable in English law.

• Keith says:

  20 Jul20 July 06:01

  I don’t understand what they can do. They overbook flights because they know there will be ‘no shows’.

  It may unfortunately signal the end of some of the monster deals that have been available but they’ve created the disparity in fares in the first place. Why is Dublin 75% cheaper? I mean you have ti fly to London to get the plane you would have booked anyway.

  Has anyone that has done this on H4P ever been contacted by BA?

• Idrive says:

  20 Jul20 July 06:31

  I have an ex eu next March. I don’t want to risk it so i will make my all my way back. It’s a bit tiring but in the end it’s worth it. Also with a luggage i don’t see it very feasable to hope that AA check in agents will allow me to send it half the way.. Some reports on FT advised it’s a matter of luck…

  • CHRIS says:

    20 Jul20 July 08:58

    @IDrive ask them to short check your luggage to heathrow rather than all the way through as you want to change before your next flight.

  • Polly says:

    20 Jul20 July 09:03

    How come you didn’t book your last leg from a different airport in London??? Shame really, but I think we would also complete the last leg, ESP, if it’s a tier run one to obtain or retain silver.

    • idrive says:

      20 Jul20 July 12:45

      Polly, I could not because all flights were from LHR no other airport options. i booked it online btw.
      And I already saved more than 500+GBP. It is not a mileage run, it’s a proper trip to the US with exactly the flights I wanted (timing). and by the way, seen the recent news about the last leg of the flights, i do not want to risk. I can not afford being flagged/account closed. I can try to quote the same and see if the difference if offsetting the value of the flight back to the UK or similar

      • Polly says:

        20 Jul20 July 18:32

        Agreed, it is better to complete all legs if it’s not too much trouble. We will return to Ublin, then quick avios trip back to LHR. Worth it for the tier points at the time. The savings are great so we all appear to value this knowledge, much appreciated….

• Jon says:

  20 Jul20 July 06:40

  I am almost certain there has been an EU court ruling or decree that the requirement to take all legs of a journey is an unfair term and likely unenforceable. You are buying a right to take a flight, not a requirement to do so.

  • Callum says:

    20 Jul20 July 07:38

    Because BA competes with numerous carriers on the Dublin to X to Y route, but very few on the London to Y route. They can therefore charge a premium for direct while slashing prices with connections to complete with other one stop carriers.

    • Callum says:

      20 Jul20 July 07:39

      That went under the wrong comment.

      Though back on topic, are you sure you aren’t thinking of the proposed changes to EU261? They contain a similar provision.

      • Jon says:

        20 Jul20 July 09:28

        It’s entirely possible I was thinking of proposed rather than actual changes.

    • James67 says:

      20 Jul20 July 12:42

      True, but only until they reach a tipping point with regards to the fare, products and services on offer whereupon customers are no longer prepared to pay for the convenience of direct flights. It is clear from this blog that this tipping point has already been passed for many people. Further, more compelling, evidence is Emirates all a380 services from LHR and its introduction to LGW. It is not difficult to forsee an ME3 all 380 service at LHR within a couple of years. That they can do so is not because they are luring traffic away from LH or AF, it is clearly BA who are losing out. Some of ME3 success can reasonably be argued to be due to passenger growth but even so BA are still loosing out by failing to secure that growth for themselves. If further evidence is needed it is the increasing prevalence of smaller BA aircraft on major routes. This is not just driven by efficiency of individual aircraft but by a lack of passengers to fill a larger aircraft.

  • Rob says:

    20 Jul20 July 09:25

    IIRC it has been proved in court that you CANNOT buy a rail ticket from London to Three Bridges and get off at Gatwick (this is cheaper than booking London to Gatwick). This is no different.

    • Richard says:

      20 Jul20 July 09:58

      Think you can get off – there just maybe consequences.

    • sandgrounder says:

      20 Jul20 July 11:53

      IF the terms and conditions made it clear that this was the case, then it would be similar. However, the railways enjoy a comprehensive set of bylaws which set out very clearly that this type of behaviour is a criminal offence. This is not the case for airlines.

      Plus, the example given is different because the customers in question have booked the last leg to be taken at a later date. Such products do not exist on the railway, as far as I know?

    • Curon says:

      20 Jul20 July 13:32

      Different kettle of fish. The National Conditions of Carriage are clear on this:

      16. Starting, breaking or ending a journey at intermediate stations
      You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return
      ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you
      want to use.

      • sandgrounder says:

        20 Jul20 July 14:04

        So with a cheap train ticket you can miss any of the early sections of the trip, but not terminate early. Sort of the opposite! I knew you couldnt get off at an earlier stop on an advance ticket, but I was not aware you could join your train late. Good to know.

        • JQ says:

          20 Jul20 July 16:58

          No, you can’t. You’ve missed the last bit of the clause posted above: advance tickets are not valid unless you take the entire journey specified on the train you have booked, so you wouldn’t have a valid ticket for the trains you intend to use.

          Whether you get caught is a different matter.

        • sandgrounder says:

          20 Jul20 July 18:26

          Oooh selective posting. Could have got me in trouble there mate. Grrrr! 🙂

    • Calchas says:

      21 Jul21 July 16:17

      The rail network is governed by its own bye-laws. Your relationship with BA is a purely contractual one. There’s no contract term allowing BA to apply an arbitrary reprice on your journey if you no longer wish to make use of the ticket.

• Mark says:

  20 Jul20 July 06:40

  I flew back yesterday from LA on a LAX-LHR-DUB flight. The guy at LAX was very hesitant to only check my bags through to London an even went to check with his supervisor (I started to sweat a bit). I explained that I wanted to freshen up in London but my wash bag contained items over 100ml so I could not carry them on. All was fine, bags came out at Heathrow and I came home.
  Oddly enough I was travelling with 5 friends all on different bookings but doing the same thing, not one of them even got questioned about why they wanted too collect their bags in London.

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