flybmi goes into receivership, all flights cancelled – why did it happen?

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• Genghis says:

  16 Feb16 February 21:33

  Small mistake: “a flight of 17 Embraer aircraft” should be “a fleet of…”

  • David says:

    17 Feb17 February 01:20

    I thought this, but if you can have a “flight” of wines, why can’t you have a “flight” of Embraers? Especially if you consider the pun bonus…

  • Rob says:

    17 Feb17 February 08:35

    Doh, will fix.

• Will says:

  16 Feb16 February 21:50

  The livery on those ERJ’s pictured looks fantastic!

• Charlieface says:

  16 Feb16 February 22:30

  Anyone with flights booked by credit card should remind their provider that section 75 means they are equally liable for consequential loss, in this case rebooking under EC261/2004, not just a refund.
  I pity Failing Grayling who just announced 2 days ago the renewal of the Derry-Stansted PSO. He really doesn’t seem to get anything right.

  • Save East Coast Rewards says:

    16 Feb16 February 23:01

    Let’s not pity Failing Grayling considering the amount of public money he’s wasted with his dodgy decisions in the past. Perhaps Loganair will be able to take over this route if they have the aircraft to do so.

    It’s sad to see the end of the bmi brand. Diamond Club was what gave me my love of loyalty schemes as I could get amazing benefits from the scheme. Although bmi regional never flew anywhere I needed to go and didn’t have Diamond Club it was still nice to see the bmi brand and livery around when flying.

    • Mikeact says:

      17 Feb17 February 08:21

      It does make me concerned about Loganair as well…..are they financially sound……what are their load factors ? I guess underlying, that they get subsidies to ensure they keep going ?

      • Mr Dee says:

        17 Feb17 February 09:43

        So Flybmi was run separate to ensure profitability on the routes they took on, makes sense.

• BJ says:

  16 Feb16 February 22:30

  To be honest I had forgotten that BMI regional even existed. I cannot recall noticing an ad or promotional material for them anywhere. That may have been part of their problem.

  • Save East Coast Rewards says:

    16 Feb16 February 23:11

    I guess it depends where you lived. They weren’t much use for those of us in London (except for the Derry flight). I’d have hoped they promoted themselves in the areas where they had a presence.

  • Rob says:

    17 Feb17 February 08:35

    Agreed.

  • RussellH says:

    17 Feb17 February 11:54

    Amex had one of their “Spend £xxx, save £yy” offers on flybmi about 12 months ago. It was never mentioned on here, though, in an article, though I mentioned it as an OT.

    I also mentioned flybmi here a few months later when my partner tried to use them for a day trip from NCL-BRU. The plane was supposed to arrive at NCL in the evening, stay the night then leave for BRU at some ungodly hour in the morning. Even though the plane nevver arrived at NCL on the Tuesday, she only found out when she tried to check in in the morning. She was given a piece of paper with instructions to phone an 0845 number (08xx numbers having been banned for CS purposes some months earlier) which just went to voice mail, with an announcement to try after 0800. Flight should have left before 0600.

    • Lady London says:

      17 Feb17 February 15:06

      Haha Hertz has for some time now removed all the normal 01- 02- 03- numbers for branches on its website, and displays only 0843- numbers. Hertz disabled all the old regular numbers. so even if you know the “real” phone numbers still, which do exist, Hertz seems to have made great efforts to illegally charge their customers so far as I can tell by forcing them to dial these expensive numbers that I believe, it is illegal for them to do.

      These numbers that Hertz is apparently allowing customers to dial as the only way of reaching a branch are charged at at 7p extra per minute, apparently. Customer will pay this as well as potentially huge surcharges on mobile or other phone line if needing to call Hertz on these 0843- numbers. I did mention it as potentially illegal but apparently Hertz doesn’;t seem to think so.

• hdagz says:

  16 Feb16 February 23:05

  I had an outstanding EU Regulation 261/2004 (flight delay) claim against them, they hadn’t responded for quite a while, now I know why!

  I have travel insurance and booked on Amex gold, unlikely I know but does anyone know if either will cough up the €250 in bmi’s absence?!

  • Will says:

    17 Feb17 February 00:57

    Possibly, check the terms of your policy amex plat says £150 for refreshments if 4 hour delay in departure time. Presumably they’d want receipts although perhaps you submitted them to Flybmi and they are now awol.

  • Charlieface says:

    17 Feb17 February 02:24

    Similar to what I mentioned above, Amex should cover EC261 claim under section 75. It’s also a joint liability.
    Insurance would be separate and usually only cover losses.

    • Shoestring says:

      17 Feb17 February 08:08

      Amex charge cards don’t come under S75 (which applies to credit cards).

      And don’t forget S75 is for when you paid over £100.

      • Oli says:

        17 Feb17 February 08:17

        Over £100/person/flight or £100/booking?

      • Shoestring says:

        17 Feb17 February 08:28

        @Oil pretty sure it would be covered – see www
        financial-ombudsman org
        uk/publications/technical_notes/goods-and-services-bought-with-credit.html
        case study 1
        [Mr McF used his credit card to buy a travel voucher for £220 that was valid for ten single trips. He had made three trips using the voucher when the travel provider went into administration.
        The credit card provider argued that the value of each individual trip under the voucher would be less than £100. It said this meant it could have no potential liability under section 75.
        We disagreed. Mr McF had not purchased ten individual trips costing £22 each – he had purchased a single voucher costing £220. As the item purchased under the contract was above £100, it was covered by the provisions of section 75.]

      • John says:

        17 Feb17 February 10:09

        Over £100 per transaction according to your card statement, at least. If two pax at £50 each are charged separately (as happens with Amex Travel) they would argue it’s two transactions and would require some escalation.

  • Shoestring says:

    17 Feb17 February 08:09

    No to EC261 EUR250 compo but you might be able to claim actual losses

    • Charlieface says:

      17 Feb17 February 12:11

      Joint liability means the credit card is also liable for EC261 in the same way the airline would be. That means they must cover rebooking even if it costs more than the original charge.
      Granted the OP has a charge card so no s75.

  • Rob says:

    17 Feb17 February 08:34

    Unlikely. You can claim from the administrator but I doubt there is any money in the pot.

    • hdagz says:

      17 Feb17 February 08:57

      Thanks all. I’ll try travel insurance, Amex and administrator, but not getting my hopes up. Forgot to mention my Gold is (still) a charge card so as suggested no S75 for me 🙁

      • Shoestring says:

        17 Feb17 February 09:04

        Amex’s chargeback scheme is meant to be just as good for small things so mention that to them

      • John says:

        17 Feb17 February 10:10

        That will provide a refund but not the compo or a replacement flight though

• Oli says:

  17 Feb17 February 07:11

  OT – I have a Transavia flight in April from Marrakech to Nantes which scheduled landing time has been modified from 2pm to 8pm. As we cannot drive the 3 hours to our final destination that evening with small kids, are we entitled to an hotel in Nantes paid by Transavia?

  • Rob says:

    17 Feb17 February 08:31

    No. Two months out, your only right is the right to cancel and get a refund, I think.

    • Shoestring says:

      17 Feb17 February 08:38

      I’ll challenge that – depends if you insist on your right to re-ticketing, in which case duty of care come in:
      [What are my options?
      If your cancelled medium-haul flight is covered by EU law, your airline must let you choose between two options:
      1. Receive a refund
      You can get your money back for all parts of the ticket you haven’t used. For instance, if you have booked a return flight and the outbound leg is cancelled, you can get the full cost of the return ticket back from your airline.
      2. Choose an alternative flight
      If you still want to travel, your airline must find you an alternative flight. It’s up to you whether to fly as soon as possible after the cancelled flight, or at a later date that suits you. Airlines often refer to this as being ‘rerouted’.
      Although most airlines will book you onto another of their flights to the same destination, if an alternative airline is flying there significantly sooner then you may have the right to be booked onto that flight instead. You can discuss this with your airline.
      Care and assistance
      If you choose an alternative flight you are also entitle to care and assistance. This usually means food, drink, access to communications (this could be by refunding the reasonable cost of phone calls) and accommodation (if necessary).]

      From CAA. Yes – no compo if over 2 weeks’ notice.

      • Rob says:

        17 Feb17 February 08:55

        This flight isn’t cancelled though, just moved 6 hours.

      • Shoestring says:

        17 Feb17 February 09:00

        Should have read that bit. Yep – this one’s clear – they wouldn’t pay for a hotel the other end, no duty of care there.

      • Bill says:

        17 Feb17 February 17:53

        I had a ryanair flight schedule change by something like 8 hours. They rebooked me on an alternative flight with same destination but a different origin (resulted in the same date of travel and same departure and arrival time). Nothing to pay. That was about 8 months ahead of departure

      • sunguy says:

        18 Feb18 February 13:26

        It all depends on whether the flight number has stayed the same……as to whether its cancelled or a schedule change.

        Its a nuance – but if the flight number changes, you have been cancelled and rebooked if the number is the same, you have just had a schedule change….

        I had to argue this point with an American Airlines first line agent last year – eventually passed to a manager who whilst reading the booking mentioned the flight had been cancelled (no longer running at the time I had booked).

• Billy says:

  17 Feb17 February 08:22

  Loved how they blamed it on Brexit, the media is gonna have a field day with this. The CEO was a remainer no doubt.

  • Chrisasaurus says:

    17 Feb17 February 08:37

    Or saw that the reduction in forward bookings into the EU, the cost associated with making changes to the legal structure of the airline and the quite obvious uncertainties that surround any business with any exposure whatsoever to the EU all contributed to a situation where the shareholders could no longer guarantee the companies survival?
    Y’know, facts and that?

    • Shoestring says:

      17 Feb17 February 08:41

      You two must have missed this bit: [which has led to our inability to secure valuable flying contracts in Europe and lack of confidence around bmi’s ability to continue flying between destinations in Europe]

      • Rob says:

        17 Feb17 February 08:54

        It’s true that they wouldn’t have been able to confirm any EU-EU routes and would probably have had to surrender those they had. Still an under 50% load factor though.

      • Chrisasaurus says:

        17 Feb17 February 09:42

        That was the legal structure bit – easyJet-esque Austrian setup if wanting to continue within EU

    • hdagz says:

      17 Feb17 February 08:54

      +1

    • Alan says:

      17 Feb17 February 22:10

      Shhh, you’re sounding a bit like someone well-informed and reasonable and you know we’ve all had enough of experts… 😉

  • Roger* says:

    17 Feb17 February 08:38

    No. ‘The airline has faced several difficulties, including recent spikes in fuel and carbon costs, the latter arising from the EU’s recent decision to exclude UK airlines from full participation in the Emissions Trading Scheme. These issues have undermined efforts to move the airline into profit. Current trading and future prospects have also been seriously affected by the uncertainty created by the Brexit process, which has led to our inability to secure valuable flying contracts in Europe and lack of confidence around bmi’s ability to continue flying between destinations in Europe. Additionally, our situation mirrors wider difficulties in the regional airline industry which have been well documented.’

    Your point is? No, let me guess.

    • Roger* says:

      17 Feb17 February 08:39

      That was a response to Billy.

• Nigel the pensioner says:

  17 Feb17 February 08:57

  Rob – i assume you got my PM re the regional airlines editorial i sent you a couple of days ago?
  There goes number one; whatever Virgin have in mind for Flybe I believe they are safe for now. I would be very aware of the “independents” though on niche routes and also on the “challengers” on competitive routes. Make a note of which airline is giving a profits warnings and which are “delighted” with new financial backing – this simply means greater long term debt in the first instance.
  Oh and finally (and i expect obviously) do distinguish between a credit card and a debit card when booking…..

  • Shoestring says:

    17 Feb17 February 09:02

    It does help Flybe mgt’s case that it was a case of ‘sh!t or bust” and 1p is generous

  • Rob says:

    17 Feb17 February 10:39

    Yes, thanks for that. I think the Flybe deal is a done deal and this will simply remind anyone who thought there was an alternative that there really isn’t.

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