The (leaked) new Avios partner flight pricing looks OK if true …. so why is BA keeping shtum?

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• guesswho2000 says:

  1 May1 May 04:51

  Apparently the lowest increase is 4%, but they haven’t confirmed the highest, in a tweet from their CS responding to my questioning. Even getting that much was an uphill struggle!

  • Julian says:

    1 May1 May 07:19

    The level of increase in Avios required is quite clearly 33% for flights in the lowest up to 650 miles category. Which is a lot.

    But only 4% increase for journeys over 2,000 miles, which is not very much at all, although every increase in Avios required is bad as it is a devaluation of the currency or Avios inflation (depending on which way you choose to see it – small increase such as 4% looks like inflation while a large increase like 33% looks like a wholesale devaluation)

    Since the flights in the 33% increase in Avios required category were also not subject to Reward Flight Saver (RFS) and already came with a lot of taxes and charges it now seems to be even more essential to avoid such flights and to only travel on RFS qualifying ones. Over 2,000 miles they already levy lots more of cheating taxes and charges (as they are not RFS qualifying) and so this is presumably why only a 4% increase in the Avios redemption amount has been asked for?

    • Callum says:

      1 May1 May 08:26

      Short flights on other airlines don’t tend to have a lot of taxes and charges, quite the opposite in fact.

      It’s never been “essential” to avoid them, and short flights on AA, Alaska, LATAM, Qantas, JAL, Cathay Pacific and Malaysian amongst others are often very good value.

      • Julian says:

        1 May1 May 11:00

        I was talking of flying with other airlines short haul from a UK airport, where the non RFS based taxes and charges usually are even higher.

      • Callum says:

        1 May1 May 12:30

        Oh ok, I can’t think of a single flight from the UK affected by this increase in the <650 mile category though?

        Hardly any in the category above it either – London, Edinburgh and Manchester to Helsinki, any more?

      • Lady London says:

        1 May1 May 13:45

        @Callum I don’t want to be obvious but that’s exactly the value that’s being attacked here. Foregn domestic flights on other airlines.

      • callum says:

        1 May1 May 14:20

        Lady London – I know, nothing I’ve said contradicts that does it?

        Julian first said that it’s “essential” to avoid non-IAG short haul flights because of the high surcharges. I pointed out that they generally do not have high surcharges and are therefore often great options to spend Avios on, so he changed his argument to non-IAG flights leaving the UK under 650 miles. My subsequent objection was that I don’t think such a flight exists (that can be bookable with Avios).

• Nigel the Pensioner says:

  1 May1 May 05:57

  4500 to 6000 is a 33.3% increase but as Rob says you would tolerate 1500 Avios extra better than a 33.3% increase in your mortgage repayments – for those living outside London!!

  • Alex says:

    1 May1 May 07:10

    Exactly my thoughts on the “insignificance ” of the increase as that’s what i use my avios for – short hopp flights with partners. Two points here – avios price was way too cheap vs cash price so not surprised with this devaluation. The increase is bit less than 30% if the cash component (7£ or so) stays the same.

  • reddot says:

    1 May1 May 07:40

    +1 Nigel. At work, I always have to pull my analyst/manager back when they get excited about a high percentage over a small number. Go look at that 4% vendor rate increase over the £1m spend category, not the 33% increase over the £1,000 one.

    • Mr(s) Entitled says:

      1 May1 May 08:54

      I dont think people understand percentages, as these comments bear out. A percentage is only relevant to the base figure. If that base figure is de minimis it will have a materiel impact on the output.

      I’ve had people quote percentage to me as though that it itself was a useful figure. When I then question what that means in absolute terms, they often dont know.

      I’m with Rob, change as presented is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. But, if you consider 1,500 Avios detrimental then you probably don’t have enough Avios in the first instance to play this game.

      • Alex says:

        1 May1 May 09:04

        It depends on how many of these SH flights you take. 1500 avios is obviously nothing, but if you have to take let’s say 10 of these flights a year (or maybe just 2-3, but for a family of four), the numbers look totally different, don’t they?

      • Russ says:

        1 May1 May 10:47

        Exactly Alex, another example where big numbers don’t act the same as small numbers. If someone buys 10 business class seats a month the points earned after 30th May are worth 33% less against award flights. Take your partner and that’s 20 business class seats and that’s before you’ve included your annual holidays. It is a big devaluation made to look palatable.

        My tingley spider sense is telling me that the bit BA are keeping under wraps till 30th is they’re raising the cash element in tandem with the avios amount.

      • Mr(s) Entitled says:

        1 May1 May 13:10

        Alex,

        I’d refer you back to my original comment. Even 10 x SH at plus 1,500 is only 15,000 Avios. If you can no longer afford to take 10 flights due to 15,000 (you could of course take 8 or 9) then you probably don’t have enough Avios to play this game. Changes are minor. Reaction (from some) is not.

      • Mr(s) Entitled says:

        1 May1 May 13:19

        Russ,

        If someone buys 10 x business seats their Avios are not worth 33% less as you state.

        They may be on one potential redemption option if that is how they are exclusively used, but of course on other options outside the prospective changes, they are worth the same. How they are spent will impact the return the 10x business seat buyer receives.

        If BA really wanted to devalue your Avios by 1/3 they could. But crucially, they have not.

      • Lady London says:

        1 May1 May 13:44

        @ Entitled you are describving the great majority of avios collectors. Many hardly ever scrape up enough avios even for the shortest flights. This just moved the bar for them further out of reach.

    • Lady London says:

      1 May1 May 13:41

      This is part of what I do for a living. Had the 4% on big amounts vs the 300% increase on little amounts conversation – who cares? many times. Depends on rate of growh of spend predicted for that little category if you care. such as digital spend for marketing has been tiny till very recently, but growing at 10,000%+ per year. Then you care about increases even on the little amounts. it depends where volume is shifting to. Right now I don’t care about, say, nondigital media marketing costs, even if tose are huge, as the switch is to digital media forcing those down rapidly.

      BA will have worked out their spreadsheets very carefully on this. and they’re not going to change it just because Tesco as a way of earning airmiles has just about disappeared and Amex has suddenly decided to be sensible and try to award sign-on bonuses mostly for those who are new(ish) signups.

• John says:

  1 May1 May 06:29

  OT I think my Lloyds Amex ends on 8th May, what would happen if I try to use it after then? I presume the Amex needs to still be open for pending transactions to post and for refunds/chargebacks etc. Can Amex transactions be carried over to the mastercard and earn the new low rate (not that I would want this to happen)?

• a9504477 says:

  1 May1 May 06:39

  I quite disagree that this “doesn’t seem too bad” since redemptions for short flights were one of the (few) sweet spots and with a 33% increase this is no more.

  • Gordon says:

    1 May1 May 06:48

    When Rob goes for his lunchtime sandwich and finds it has gone from £3 yesterday to £4 today he will tell himself that it’s ok. It’s only a 33.3% increase, but still not a massive amount 😁

    • Julian says:

      1 May1 May 07:30

      I have a feeling that Rob is someone who would only ever consider a supposedly top draw £5 M&S Sandwich meal deal (see http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6639296/marks-and-spencer-meal-deal-five-pounds-reddit-divides-internet) rather than slum it with a Tesco £3 Meal Deal as I nearly always do (even though I actually find Tesco wraps in particular and some sandwiches way superior to Asda or Sainsburys). Although occasionally I do have to pick up a £3.50 Morrisons or Co-Op Meal Deal.

      If on the other hand Rob’s rate of commission on his introductory new Amex cardholder links was cut by 33% (whether in cash or in personal Avios rewards) he might very well tend to notice and not be at all impressed……

      • Shoestring says:

        1 May1 May 08:07

        @Julian – I think you should give the Boots meal deal a go

        Did you know there are over seven million Boots Meal Deal combinations? At only £3.39* or less for a main, snack and a drink, there’s plenty of ways to mix up your meal deal. But if you ever find yourself confused in the aisles and need to know the lowdown on how to make your lunch picks healthier then read on…
        http://www.boots.com/wellness-advice/nutrition/healthy-meal-deals

      • Mark2 says:

        1 May1 May 08:39

        I see Rob as a Pret a Manger customer

        • Rob says:

          1 May1 May 08:41

          Just left there actually. Usually in Kings Road from 8.30-9 if anyone wants a chat.

      • Andrew says:

        1 May1 May 09:31

        £4.75 gets me a full roast dinner with all the trimmings in my works canteen.

        Can’t believe some people pay a fiver for a sandwich.

      • Genghis says:

        1 May1 May 10:12

        🙂 and I get my lunch for free, cooked by the Head Chef who did Will and Kate’s wedding

        • Rob says:

          1 May1 May 10:15

          We got stuffed, because WeWork has brought in a global vegetarianism policy. No on-site cafe is now allowed to sell meat. We now have probably the only veggie Le Pain Quotidien in the world in our building.

      • Doug M says:

        1 May1 May 11:18

        With subsidised canteens and even free lunches is that a benefit in kind? Are companies paying a an agreed settlement to HMRC to cover it? Not jealous, OK a little, but just wondered. Accountant at work said previously company had paid an agreed figure to HMRC to cover the stupidly expensive Christmas parties they used to organise.

        • Rob says:

          1 May1 May 11:52

          Yes it is. I remember my old lot having make a payment to cover the free coffee machine.

          Parties are ok at Christmas to £150 per head so Anika and I go out for a £300 lunch 🙂

      • Lady London says:

        1 May1 May 13:56

        You are correct the number of occurrences of any signup bonsues (or referrals) paid for Amex should now reduce. the rate of compensation for each one of those, however, is not being reduced. In fact it is more likely to go up. Amex will have to provide incentives somehow that are in accordance with the market. As bonuses and for the odd referral. So the volume is changing not the rate.

        the point is that for many businesses especially dynamic ones old sources of income will drop off and so will new ones arise.

        Btw Julian are you in the habit of going out for dinner and insulting your host? I don’t think you mean it but …. sometimes it comes across that way.

      • Lady London says:

        1 May1 May 13:58

        And ON topic, Shoestring/Julian, if you are at Gatwick I think I saw a voucher for the Boots meal deal online in Mygatwick email for which i’ve signed up, and it might also be in the booklet on the stands you see on the wall near to the drinking water tap as you come through security. It’s a chunk off the meal deal price.

    • Julian says:

      1 May1 May 11:18

      @Shoestring,

      Actually the main places I buy Meal Deals are normally Tesco, Co-Op and Boots in that order. Boots is usually chosen when passing through railway stations or airports (most of them charge more like £3.89 for the Boots Meal Deal). I just mentioned Morrisons as I happened to buy a meal deal there the other day and at least they do have one, unlike Asda where sandwiches are poor and there is no meal deal at all. Also no meal deal at Aldi or Lidl but the pre made iced coffees are usually remarkably cheap as a solo purchase.

      Regarding Tescos I reckon a Meal Deal price hike to £3.50 is clearly imminent (catching up with Co-op, although I expect they are waiting until Sainsburys hike the price of their now much inferior sandwich based product at £3 also) because they have now begun to start mirroring Co-Op’s far more extensive snack range including chocolate brownies and decent £1 pots of fruit instead of only the previous miserable bags of apple chips. Also at Tescos watch out for the fact that only the large chocolate bars are in the meal deal. In theory I know this but the other day I was in a big hurry and as they sneakily hide the large chocolate bars elsewhere grabbed a regular Whispa without thinking about it (classic Fast Brain vs Slow Brain stuff) but later realised that had landed me with a bill of £5.50 instead of £3 for the privilege of buying less Wispa in total…..

      • Shoestring says:

        1 May1 May 11:29

        seen it 🙂

      • xcalx says:

        1 May1 May 12:29

        I find the small independent sandwich shops far superior, Plus supporting the local community.

  • Nick says:

    1 May1 May 07:59

    Can we really complain if they are just closing out “sweet spots”/ underpriced redemptions? Disappointing though it is, it hardly seems unfair.

    • Mark2 says:

      1 May1 May 14:12

      +1

• Malibu Stacey says:

  1 May1 May 07:01

  “Based on reports I have pulled together from elsewhere ”

  LOL. Where could that be I wonder?

  😉

  • Rob says:

    1 May1 May 08:21

    That would be from the article linked to in the article, plus one comment made on One Mile At A Time. I think everyone else has used the 31B data.

• Alex W says:

  1 May1 May 07:24

  What about >3000 miles though, that is really worrying me!

  • xcalx says:

    1 May1 May 07:58

    3 to 4% So not too bad.

    • Alex W says:

      1 May1 May 08:45

      Where does it say that?

      • Rob says:

        1 May1 May 08:49

        You need to do the maths in your head, based on the longer bands.

      • John says:

        1 May1 May 09:21

        I think people are making too many assumptions.

      • Alex W says:

        1 May1 May 09:46

        Agreed John. The original article from 31B did no long haul analysis so we don’t know if 4% will apply or not:

        “I was able to piece together what I believe to be the award chart for the short and mid-haul flights most commonly booked with Avios (the Avios chart generally isn’t a good deal for long haul flights, so I didn’t focus on these). “

      • xcalx says:

        1 May1 May 10:21

        Phone BA and ask, they can see both award levels. Plenty of bloggers covering this story.

• Matt says:

  1 May1 May 08:31

  The cynic in me thinks that maybe they wanted people to think that it would be bad in order for people to use up some Avios balance on at what other airlines have admitted is a time of weaker than expected demand.

• Rooster says:

  1 May1 May 08:50

  They probably had a release date for it hence not bothering to release it before then

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