Why are British Airways pilots supporting the new low cost carrier at Gatwick?

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• Tim says:

  29 Aug29 August 11:47

  It seems pretty obvious to me: BA should just dump Gatwick and set Manchester as their second base. Larger catchment area for direct flights. Same airport group. Good for public relations. Easier to negotiate terms with employees (but you’ll need to relocate t’ North…)…Simple. You’re welcome Sean 🙂

  • ChrisC says:

    29 Aug29 August 12:06

    What do you mean ‘same airport group’

    Manchester Airport Holdings has nothing to do with LGW

    • Matthew says:

      29 Aug29 August 14:50

      I think Tim is getting mixed up with STN which is owned by MAG along with MAN and EMA.

• Matarredondaaa says:

  29 Aug29 August 12:06

  Prior to the pandemic BA to/from Malaga were more than competitive with easyJet and Norwegian
  Major difference was they were not maximising income from food, etc and sustaining stupid costs with a handful travelling in the front cabin being treated like kings with two staff members looking after 6 or so people plus lounge costs, etc.
  BA need to be bold by doing away with the front cabin and all the associated costs, increasing the capacity of the aircraft, getting cabin crews to push food and drink sales like easyJet, etc.
  The vast majority of travellers use an airline based on the flight cost.
  Easyjet’s cost base is around mid way between BA and Ryanair/WizzAir and if BA can get down to EasyJet they will make a success of Gatwick.

  • patrick C says:

    29 Aug29 August 12:38

    For vacation flights from Gatwick maybe, but personally I specifically avoid any LCC. From the non existing service to the annoyance from the booking to the arrival at the destination, some people are willing to pay for it to some extend .
    I would have thought that BA finally learned that you cannot compete with a pure LCC on price, and trying to do it destroys the brand value even if it is under a slightly different brand name. (Eurowings is still linked to lufthansa by customers)
    The only strategy is not to compete on max capacity, but on service and quality and charge for it. The operations need to run efficiently though.

    • JDB says:

      29 Aug29 August 15:26

      I agree. I have zero interest in flying easyJet or Ryanair; that is not a holiday experience we want, having tried it in the distant past. We are more than happy to pay to be just that bit more comfortable at each stage of the journey and I don’t think we are alone. It may be partly an age thing!

      • Bonglim says:

        29 Aug29 August 18:38

        I’m with JDB – I would be happier to pay extra for a better service. I pay extra for the empty middle seat, the time in the lounge and less arguments about luggage being 2cm bigger than it should.

        But I don’t think I am in the majority here. I don’t have kids, travel as a couple, and between us earn enough money to spend on things that others would consider frivolous.

        I’d love there to be an airline which charged loads, but had proper luxury for European flights, just don’t think it is economical for any airline to deliver it.

        • Anna says:

          30 Aug30 August 16:42

          After a fair bit of experience of both, I can state categorically that direct with a LCC beats BA via LHR on short haul!

  • ChrisC says:

    29 Aug29 August 13:13

    On every SH flight I’ve been on as soon as the meal and first round of drinks has been served in CE the junior member of cabin crew has been sent down the back to help with BoB or collecting rubbish etc before coming back to the front to assist again.

    And there could be more people in economy that had lounge access than there were passengers in Club who it can be argued paid for their lounge access via their ticket price.

    The BA crew who I know wanted to try and flog as much as they could for the minimal commission but the carts were often poorly loaded with things like sandwiches in short supply. You can’t sell what’s not there and BA and Tourvest messed up with BOB by not having adequate stocks.

  • ADS says:

    29 Aug29 August 13:28

    “getting cabin crews to push food and drink sales like easyJet”

    The difference in culture is huge.

    I regularly fly 1 hour sectors where Ryanair staff complete a full round of food & drink sales, a few lottery sales, and a full round of perfume sales.

    On the same sector, the BA staff used to manage to offer food & drink purchases to about half the plane.

    The BA “polite” culture just doesn’t work for these sectors.

• Anonymous says:

  29 Aug29 August 12:12

  The new airline at Gatwick will use a few existing pilots for a fixed period but new recruits will be paid an inferior salary . All pilots will be on a just above legal scheduling agreement. Pilots will be on the seniority list at BA but are likely to burnout after their fixed period (5+ years) at Gatwick store being allowed to request to move on.

  BA pilots should beware. This is the virus that will quickly spread to other fleets if voted through. the new airline will be unencumbered by BA debt, will be able to negotiate its own catering/handling/engineering contracts. It may well look like BA on the outside but what happens under the skin will look and feel very different.

  Why BA want to dip their toes again into a pool where it has already failed, who knows. If I want a cheap seat and a friendly smile, I travel Easyjet. If I want a bit more, I dig deeper and go with BA. But I refuse to support a new start up that are ruining BAs good name, cheapening it’s brand and exploiting its staff. BA are fast losing the faith and trust of its loyal customer base with excessive cancellations at all 3 of its bases.

  This is not about covid. This has been in the planning for years, and hey, why waste an opportunity to kick a workforce while they are down. a generate the vast majority of the profit at IAG, but with lower paid staff, they can go further.

  Easyjet won’t lose any sleep over a new start up with 10+ aircraft and a workforce who are there through desperation, not through choice.
  Shame on BA. Go back to what you do best, and strive to do it even better

  • Mikeact says:

    29 Aug29 August 17:52

    ‘BA are fast losing the faith and trust of its loyal customer base with excessive cancellations’

    What Tosh…you guys have been saying this for years….Covid has not helped at all, but BA’s passenger numbers have steadily increased year on year.

    • Rob says:

      29 Aug29 August 17:59

      This is against a rapidly growing aviation market. Would be interesting to see BA’s market share over the last 20 years.

• Sunny smith says:

  29 Aug29 August 12:14

  BALPA is incompetent- professional pilots pretending to be professional industrial negotiators. In reality, a bunch of amateurs negotiators against the might of big business and their -actual- professional lawyers.

• Joe says:

  29 Aug29 August 15:48

  My 2p of thoughts is that BA’s best bet for LGW going forward is to launch a new subsidiary with reduced service on a par with easyjet etc but still offer tier points and avios (perhaps at a lower level than regular BA flights) as a differentiator. It wouldn’t cost much but would probably be enough to swing enough customers their direction to keep planes full.

• Dev says:

  29 Aug29 August 17:25

  BALPA are a joke! Who remembers them cancelling a strike 9 days out as “someone had to take the initiative…”

  they had the capability to cause management a real bloody nose and fight for T&Cs but caved in!

  • Dev says:

    29 Aug29 August 17:26

    The only negotiating tactic the Union has is to withdraw labour … and they chose not to do that! BA management probably could not believe their luck!

  • Rob says:

    29 Aug29 August 18:02

    Hard to imagine how they kept any credibility after that. Organise a strike unless BA changes its position, BA does not change its position and makes it quite clear that nothing will make it do so, BALPA cancels strike.

    • ChrisC says:

      29 Aug29 August 20:21

      It did cost BA a shed load of money in compensation for cancelled flights and paying other airlines to carry BA passengers.

• A loyal fan of BA says:

  29 Aug29 August 18:04

  Unless I am very much mistaken, BA already have a subsidiary at London City Airport, BA Cityflyer. I travelled with them on Friday evening and choose to travel with them whenever I can, both to avoid the chaos at Heathrow, but also because the service is lovely. They still offer complementary food in both Business and Economy class. The flight attendants on my flight on Friday evening were talking about the new airline and are worried it would be bad news for the flying staff at BACityflyer, who are already paid substantially lower wages than their BA counterparts. They are being threatened with paycuts and layoffs already for this Winter, yet It is their “big boss” who is setting up the new airline, which makes me wonder what the motivation is behind a brand new brand when he already has one that works so well. It doesn’t feel like a very clever move that’s for sure.
  Why do BA need another subsidiary when they already have a cost-low airline who “do the BA brand” very well?
  New start ups are risky and could damage the BA brand if they look and feel too far from what BA do so well. You only get one opportunity to get this right and as a loyal customer I think this feels very wrong.

  • Memesweeper says:

    29 Aug29 August 18:42

    City flyer have the wrong aircraft type for Gatwick, otherwise an expansion of their operations would be a good fit I’d have thought.

  • Joe says:

    29 Aug29 August 19:47

    City flyer is not an LCC – their flights are often more expensive than equivalents from LHR!

    • speedy says:

      29 Aug29 August 20:20

      they are not a LCC but since the collapse of Flybe, BMI regional and Stobart, their pilots and cabin crew are amongst the lowest paid in the country. Their main offices are based far from London and they have skeleton everything. you have Lo cost mentality towards staff with a BA tail plane, a free floppy sandwich and a BA price tag for passengers. I’d say it’s a goldmine for BA

    • John says:

      29 Aug29 August 21:34

      Part of it is increased charges at LCY compared to LHR

    • marcw says:

      29 Aug29 August 21:52

      LCC doesn´t necessarily mean LOW FARES.

    • David says:

      30 Aug30 August 00:17

      No “free” lounge either ☹️

• Kevin D says:

  29 Aug29 August 23:53

  So BA are setting up a low cost carrier. This is just a cost cutting exercise for a portion of the business. And I don’t think, no matter what they call it, they will be able to cut enough costs to make money. It could harm the BA brand too. I would love to see it work, but Ryanair and Easyjet have to run a pretty slick set up through out all parts of their business to make money, and ultimately, that’s what it’s all about.

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