Creation Financial Services bashing

[Colin MacKinnon]

@Aliks Yes, I’d launch now. By the time you get a claims handler, there should be quite a few resolved cases, so you’ll know where you are and be further up the queue!

Just booked an overwater villa at the Bora Bora Thalasso Spa with the wife last IHG voucher. A $1300 night. So along with the ones I sent them, more string to my bow for the lost sum from both my and my wife’s unissued Free Nights.

[Lady London]

I am so glad to hear that Colin. This kind of thing helps prove the value of any nights earned that Creation broke the terms of their card offering, by not awarding.

Note that the value of an IHG night earned will vary for each customer. If making a claim, this sort of thing, or a history of any previous usage of a free night vs how much cash it would have cost, or comparison with cash cost using an IHG hotel you would credibly use the free night for (eg have a trip booked there especially if staying in comparable hotels, stayed there before, a general stay history of staying in similar-costing places…).

All these things can help your loss of any free night earned, be valued if you’re suing, claimimg or complaining.

[NorthernLass]

I sent a screenshot of my booking at the Kimpton Seafire with the free night cert, plus the cash price next Easter when we’re next visiting (on points!) and it’s $1500 pn.
I find the FOS’s response bewildering, tbh, and I’m actually starting to wonder whether Creation has launched some kind of counter-accusation to muddy the waters and stall the FOS.

[stevenhp1987]

I made a FOI to FOS. They responded today to some of my questions (not all).

—

The information provided includes data about both Creation Consumer Finance Limited and
Creation Financial Services Limited. This is because there are a number of trading names for
Creation. So, in order to answer your request, I’ve provided the data relating to complaints
regarding credit card accounts for all trading names for Creation.

Between 1 October 2021 and 27 September 2022 there have been a total of 369 complaints
investigated by our Service against Creation relating to credit cards. This number includes cases
which were reviewed on the merits of the complaint, as well as those reviewed to confirm whether
the complaint fell within the jurisdiction of the Service.

Of the 369 complaints reviewed, there were 88 upheld in favour of the consumer. This number
includes complaints resolved by an investigator, and those resolved with a final decision being
issued by an Ombudsman.

On average, the time taken for a complaint to reach an initial resolution from the time an
investigation begins was 206 days. This is the average time taken between 1 October 2021 and
27 September 2022.

[JDB]

@stevenhp1987 you could have got most of that from the FOS website without an FOI. I think the data you have posted is quite misleading (not your fault) as it relates to cases investigated, so may not cover (m)any cases relating to the account closures, but ones made much earlier. There are as yet no published decisions on this up to the end of August, although some preliminary decisions have been reported. The published figures for complaints received to give a sense of the extra ones created by the closures is far from the tsunami of thousands of cases predicted – maybe 100-150?? Some people reported lodging more than one complaint with the FOS. The amazing stat from your FOI is that less than 25% of cases were upheld.

2020 H1 149
2020 H2 156
2021 H1 143
2021 H2 119
2022 H1 258

[stevenhp1987]

@JDB, “less than 25% of cases were upheld” is not necessarily true.

They state that 369 cases were reviewed but they don’t define what “reviewed” means. It could simply be someone taking a look at the case to ensure it fits into their remit (thus some investigatory work) and therefore, not all the cases could have come to a conclusion.

I agree their stats are misleading.

They refused to answer more relevant questions such as:

– What is the average time for FOS to allocate one of these complaints to a case handler
– What is the average time for FOS to allocate any complaint from any provider to a case handler

[JDB]

@stevenhp1987 it does say:- “this number
includes complaints resolved by an investigator, and those resolved with a final decision being
issued by an Ombudsman.” so I think it does refer to investigated cases. If you look at some of the reported cases you will see why there are long delays; just so many totally absurd/meritless complaints that most people would recognise shouldn’t have been made or could be upheld.

[Colin MacKinnon]

@JDB Well, looked at the resolved Creation cases over the past year – and, wow!

The ridiculous:

1. Mr P complained that Creation didn’t offer contactless cards – complaint rejected.

2. Miss K had a credit balance of £1.96 on her closed account. Creation said they’d transfer to her bank, she said she wanted a cheque – because she was worried about her bank privacy. Ombudsman rejected her complaint saying Creation knew her bank details anyway from her payments!

Lack of communication

3. Payment made to card account didn’t show up in app, so Mr R spent six hours on the phone trying to get through. Payment did get through eventually and Creation, without speaking to Mr R refunded interest charged etc. Mr R complained, Creation failed to respond to any FCO requests, so FCO passed it to ombudsman. £150 compo. A common theme in many many cases is lack of appropriate input from Creation.

4. Mr H didn’t get the 11,000 IHG points that he’d earned. Creation failed to respond to FCO investigator’s request for final response letter and complaints file. So investigator ordered Creation to give the points plus £100 for distress Mr H said he’d suffered due to … wait for it …lack of communication! Creation then transferred the points, but not the £100 – so it went to the ombudsman!

5. Mr R set up a direct debit, but he didn’t realise it wouldn’t cover his first month. Said Creation comms were misleading/unclear. So Creation charged him a late payment fee and put a mark on his credit report. Creation refused to refund him etc. Ombusdman ruled in Mr R’s favour.

Ombudsman human and acting for consumer!

6. Mr G entered a 10-year deal for solar panels, which didn’t work out as promised. Ombudsman said Creation must put it right and offered four solutions for Mr G – not Creation – to choose from.

There are others, such as a cruise where the ombudsman ruled for c£1,000 more than his investigator suggested and a car issue where he ruled that the claimant had underestimated her loss by about £500, and ordered Creation to pay.

In summary. I’m actually very impressed by the way the FCO has handled these cases. It does seem a theme, though, that Creation are not that co-operative in making the FCO investigator’s task straightforward!

Maybe it is a common theme in the industry, I don’t know. But if I was an FCO investigator, I would have given up long ago in frustration to stack supermarket shelves!

[wideboys182]

Just received an email.

I’m sorry it’s been a while since you’ve heard from us. Your complaint is currently waiting to be allocated to an investigator. I know you’ve been waiting some time and I want to thank you for your patience.

We’ve been in contact with Creation to get the information we need to investigate your complaint. Generally speaking, businesses can choose who they want to provide financial services to. Providing they close an account in line with the terms and conditions, we wouldn’t necessarily say they acted unfairly.

Least I have not been forgotten about but am interested if anyone has won against Creation with their compliant to close our accounts. Closed accounts online with T&Cs I would like to know what that means.

[DJ]

Got the same email, I have filled the complaint with them since Jan 2022.

[Lula]

Me too. Replied, pointing ackowledging the email, but being clear that it in now way represents an update, and urging them to get on with it. I expect it’ll be deleted unread, but I was quite irritated by the empty apology.

[wideboys182]

I am expecting creation to get away with the bulk cull of customer being within T&C you wait and see. Thought most of us used Curve with the card which led to the ban not sure how that warrants an account closer.

IHG are the losers here as once my points are used I am turn to a different hotel brand

[EwanG]

Colin MacKinnon wrote:

Maybe it is a common theme in the industry, I don’t know. But if I was an FCO investigator, I would have given up long ago in frustration to stack supermarket shelves!

Could this be exactly why some cases have been paused, because the FCO investigators have had enough and upped sticks……?

Like the others above, earlier this evening I received the holding email referred to by @wideboys182. I submitted my complaint in August, was allocated an investigator a month later in September and, until tonight, have heard nothing else. The holding email I received also states they are waiting to allocate an investigator, which contradicts with the investigator emailing me to introduce herself in September.

FOS are an absolute shambles!

[Lady London]

YES to cull of customers, they generally have that right

NO to Creation doing the following:-

Cull of customers without the notice period in the contract being provably personally provided to each culled customer.

Cull of customers with the contractual notice given, however during the notice period not continuing to provide to those customers all of:

…..full continued use of card throughout the notice period as otherwise it’s a change of contract without notice (not allowed)
……full accrual of IHG pointa for spend continuimg as previously through notice period (that’s the point of a notice period=things continue during it.)
……the free night if the remaining amount waa earned during the notice period.
……any free nights previously earned, whether credited or not prior to the notice period, or during it, to be honoured

…All the above, as a mimimum. There is a case for more.

And such reasonable requirements as prompt communication with all customers particularly those whose cards Creation decided to close.

[JDB]

wideboys182 wrote:

I am expecting creation to get away with the bulk cull of customer being within T&C you wait and see. Thought most of us used Curve with the card which led to the ban not sure how that warrants an account closer.

IHG are the losers here as once my points are used I am turn to a different hotel brand

I’m not sure what you mean by “get away with” here. Every credit card provider has the statutory right to close your card on two month’s notice in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s98A and s176. Thus any complaint solely relating to the closure (rather than about missing points/vouchers) is bound to fail.

[Rui N.]

Well, if the bulk of complaints were about closure per ser, then Creation are more than right to win.
But, of course, people that followed the conversation here know that.

(Also received that stupid email from the FOS. 1st paragraph: your case is not being investigated yet; 2nd paragraph: your case is being investigated and you are going to lose!)

[Olly]

I got the same email as Rui purportedly from the “ombudsman leader” which I presume they sent to anyone who has raised an issue about Creation. Posting it here in full in case there are those who didn’t receive it. It’s another holding note in effect:

Your complaint about Creation Financial Services Limited

I’m sorry it’s been a while since you’ve heard from us. Your complaint is currently waiting to be allocated to an investigator. I know you’ve been waiting some time and I want to thank you for your patience.

We’ve been in contact with Creation to get the information we need to investigate your complaint. Generally speaking, businesses can choose who they want to provide financial services to. Providing they close an account in line with the terms and conditions, we wouldn’t necessarily say they acted unfairly.

But we understand sometimes an account closure can have other impacts, such as no longer having the benefits you had as part of your account. So, we want to be satisfied the actions Creation took were reasonable, they treated you fairly, and that they followed their statutory, regulatory and legal obligations correctly.

More information on our approach to assessing cases like yours can be found on our website: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/banking-and-payments/bank-accounts.

In the meantime, we will progress your complaint as soon as we’re able to do so. We will keep you updated while you’re waiting, and let you know if there’s anything further we need from you to move things forward.

There’s nothing you need to do until you hear from us. But if your circumstances have changed – for example, because you’re experiencing severe ill-health or financial difficulty – you can call us on 0800 023 4567 or email complaint.info@financial-ombudsman.org.uk.

Thank you again for your patience.

[JDB]

@Olly very wise to post the whole thing! The first para posted by some gives a rather different message vs. the whole.

[stevenhp1987]

Had the same email like most.

Hopefully they will still actually investigate the account closure for some of us who were terminated with no notice while relying on a non-sensical argument!

[JDB]

stevenhp1987 wrote:

Had the same email like most.

Hopefully they will still actually investigate the account closure for some of us who were terminated with no notice while relying on a non-sensical argument!

There is no statutory requirement to provide any reason even for ‘no notice’ closures which would most commonly be for breaches of contract (the other reasons being much more serious) but you still have your consumer/contractual rights in place although the measure of damages is probably very limited.

[stevenhp1987]

JDB wrote:

stevenhp1987 wrote:

Had the same email like most.

Hopefully they will still actually investigate the account closure for some of us who were terminated with no notice while relying on a non-sensical argument!

There is no statutory requirement to provide any reason even for ‘no notice’ closures which would most commonly be for breaches of contract (the other reasons being much more serious) but you still have your consumer/contractual rights in place although the measure of damages is probably very limited.

Oh I’m expecting nothing more than £50 “goodwill payment” for closing my account without notice. This is FOS after all, not the supreme court!

They cited section 12 (breaking the agreement) but refused to state which part I had actually broken! When I questioned this they actually wrote back that this section gives them the ability to close my account immediately without reason, and they are doing just that…

[JDB]

@stevenhp1987 ironically I believe that while the FOS can instruct goodwill type compensation payments the courts cannot. A court will simply apply the law that doesn’t provide for that sort of payment, but will order compensation for actual losses caused by a breach of contract if they find there has been such a breach. Many are asking for theoretical losses which is an entirely different matter.

[jj]

I had the same letter as others.

I’m not sure who’s seeking theoretical losses. Having honoured our side of Creation’s sales promotion, most of us simply want either the promised IHG free night voucher or equivalent cash compensation. We also want some proportionate compensation for late delivery of the promised benefits.

I’m pleased to see that the FOS letter notes that Creation must do more than observe the law: it must also treat customers fairly and follow its regulatory responsibilities. My complaint to the FOS wasn’t grounded in law, as Creation’s contractual terms made it clear that they could terminate my agreement at any time provided they gave me adequate notice. My complaint was that I had been treated unfairly and that Creation had failed to uphold its regulatory responsibilities by creating and promoting a product that, through no fault of the customer, did not deliver the advertised benefits.

My case was a little different from others, as my renewal date fell within the notice period and Creation refunded the annual fee that it originally charged me. But I stressed to FOS that many other borrowers would be in a similar position to me, and borrowers who do not have the time or skill to articulate a complaint should not be disdvantaged. I’m glad to see that FOS appears to be dealing with the cases together, and I hope that Creation will also be instructed also to deal fairly with non-complainants.

[HughM]

I have received the same sign of life (if nothing more) from the Leader Ombudsman.

I am, indeed, seeking a theoretical loss: in the four remaining months of my £99 ‘membership’, arbitrarily cancelled by Creation Financial Services, I would (on past trends) have reached the points threshold for the tier then known as Spire. So I claimed a theoretical loss of free breakfast for two, theoretically not eaten four times during my theoretical Spire membership during 2023, never actually achieved. I quantified that at £200.

I proffered no basis in law. I just bunged my application in: they can only say ‘no’, whereas if I am silent, I have no opportunity of redress (MCOL sounds scary). That is my spirit: I have kept a foot in the door. It’s still there.

[Colin MacKinnon]

Have a look through the FCO Ombudsman case results on the FCO website – as entertaining as HfP, I promise.

So, people have complained about Creation dropping their credit limit overnight from thousands to just £500. (Is there some significance to this £500 limit, since Barclays has it too?) Or not having touch payments implemented, or refusing to send out a cheque, or….

In all cases, the Ombudsman said: if this is the way Creation want to run their business, the law says they can. However, some of these people did get £50-£150 compensation because Creation never answered the phone, emails etc and so that caused the customer lots of stress. Now being caused stress by a financial company is something the FCO can look at, and so it made an order for compo.

(and, yes, it turned down a claim for compo based on customer’s hourly rate – total c£600 I recall – and gave something like c£100.)

Oh yes, if you think you have a claim because you knew nothing about the closure until the day your card stopped working, or you got 59 days notice or whatever, there are related cases where the Ombudsman and Creation have looked at patterns of behaviour etc and just shrugged their shoulders. Sometimes things get lost in the post. It happens.

But if Creation then don’t answer letters, emails etc…. and you are stressed by this, and claim for stress, get £100 compo.

I am hopeful that my claim for voucher due to be handed over in November – a few weeks before closure – is a success. A few quid for cocktails in Bora Bora will also help reduce my stress levels.

For the missus, I simply don’t know. She spent her 10k before the closure date, but her year end was after that. So will she get the voucher? And she also got no points transferred. I fully expect them to be delivered, based on previous cases.

So that’s be another couple of cocktails!