Creation Financial Services bashing

[Jamjaw]

marks7389 wrote:

NorthernLass wrote:

Good luck – I got that response back in March and still haven’t got a case handler, it’s very poor (and dishonest) that they’re still promising that.

Same here, my original 4 months to assignment email having been received at the end of January. Typically not one to spend a fortune on hotels but at least the one voucher they did eventually manage to award me (9 months late) for the previous membership year saved us £500+ on a San Francisco booking in September when rates were generally through the roof. I’ve still no idea why they were so high on that particular Monday night…

On that basis I do at least feel I got good value from my two years as a card member even if that was on IHG/the hotel rather than Creation delivering what was promised. My complaint still stands though and I remain hopeful that Creation will be told to make good on what they promised. In the meantime I’m not investing energy in chasing, just checking in on here every now and again to see if anyone has got anywhere.

This is my exact approach – use my last voucher at Heckfield Place for an amazing value redepmtion, but I can demonstrate at least £450 of spend I would have saved if they had given my voucher, which I had earned the full £10k by notification and my year rolled over in the 2 month dead period before cancellation. I am not putting much effort into getting this, but have made the complaint as it is, frankly, the definition of unfair practice and financial services providers should not be allowed to get away with it (I linked to curve, but no MS at all).

[memesweeper]

My case was referred to a real court several months ago. Not a peep since. I have no idea when I get asked for more evidence (if ever) or when a date is set. I know the FOS is slow, but MCOL is hardly a mad-dash for a result either.

Incidentally, I got a default judgement in my favour originally, but the court reopened the case after Creation lodged a late defence.

[Lady London]

memesweeper wrote:

My case was referred to a real court several months ago. Not a peep since. I have no idea when I get asked for more evidence (if ever) or when a date is set. I know the FOSS is slow, but MCOL is hardly a mad-dash for a result either.

Is it possible to ring the Clerk to the Court for an update?

[memesweeper]

Lady London wrote:

Is it possible to ring the Clerk to the Court for an update?

I hadn’t considered actually contacting the MoJ. I might try.

[JDB]

memesweeper wrote:

My case was referred to a real court several months ago. Not a peep since. I have no idea when I get asked for more evidence (if ever) or when a date is set. I know the FOS is slow, but MCOL is hardly a mad-dash for a result either.

Incidentally, I got a default judgement in my favour originally, but the court reopened the case after Creation lodged a late defence.

You should easily be able to find the email address for the local county court to which your case has been transferred and you can also call the court or the central number; they are very helpful. The MCOL dashboard ought to give the status of your case as well.

[JDB]

@memesweeper in the judgment/order setting aside the default judgment, you would usually also have an order for the defendant to provide a defence by x date and the order transferring the case from the centre to a local court where the case is to be heard. The whole process is usually quite swift – six months max, but the set aside will have delayed things. It is possible that the transfer hasn’t happened and as the claimant it is up to you to manage the case and get it moving; Creation won’t be doing that.

[Jon]

Sounds similar to my case. Has taken 8 months so far, including a judgment by default that was then set aside, but we do now have a hearing next month. Couple of thoughts: I found the MCOL dashboard stopped updating once the case was transferred to an actual court. But that court has been incredibly helpful whenever I’ve phoned for an update or to check on procedure and next steps etc – well worth phoning if you have any questions. Google for your court’s direct number rather than the central one.

[kwho]

In my case, none of my emails were responded to by the local court. Not even sure they read them. Letters by post seemed to be more effective.

Re: MCOL online update stops updating once assigned to local court.

All letters should be sent by Special Delivery, as Court once claimed they haven’t received my statements, despite me having proof of delivery.

[Jon]

Morning all, quick MCOL update: my hearing is next week. I will endeavour to return here afterwards and share any learnings and experience etc that might help others, but if I don’t, it may be that the court has ordered confidentiality or some such.

With any luck the hearing might finally reveal Creation’s justification for not awarding points and vouchers, though I’m not holding my breath 😉

[points_worrier]

Jon wrote:

Morning all, quick MCOL update: my hearing is next week. I will endeavour to return here afterwards and share any learnings and experience etc that might help others, but if I don’t, it may be that the court has ordered confidentiality or some such.

With any luck the hearing might finally reveal Creation’s justification for not awarding points and vouchers, though I’m not holding my breath 😉

Correct me if I’m wrong, but shouldn’t creation clearly set out their arguments beforehand (so you can discontinue if clearly wrong and vice versa)? There should be no surprise arguments that the other side does not know about to avoid the ‘I wouldn’t have continued if I’d known’ situation which wastes everyone’s time…

[Jon]

I believe that’s correct, yes…

[JDB]

points_worrier wrote:

Jon wrote:

Morning all, quick MCOL update: my hearing is next week. I will endeavour to return here afterwards and share any learnings and experience etc that might help others, but if I don’t, it may be that the court has ordered confidentiality or some such.

With any luck the hearing might finally reveal Creation’s justification for not awarding points and vouchers, though I’m not holding my breath 😉

Correct me if I’m wrong, but shouldn’t creation clearly set out their arguments beforehand (so you can discontinue if clearly wrong and vice versa)? There should be no surprise arguments that the other side does not know about to avoid the ‘I wouldn’t have continued if I’d known’ situation which wastes everyone’s time…

I think you will find that as Jon was advised and acknowledged previously, when you deal with shyster lawyers, you should probably be prepared for the unexpected during the hearing. It’s highly unethical and frowned upon but difficult for a judge to unhear something prejudicial.

[Lady London]

Would have thought confidentiality an issue only if Creation offer a settlement and as part of that agreement they offer you they want a gag order.

Just be aware that a gag order should add to the price of what you’d expect to get. I am absolutely not sn expert but if they offered £300, say, and I thought that was fair then if they want a confidentiality agreement/gag order then I would want that considerably increased by at least 35% and ideally a lot more.

Remember the moment their lawyer steps in front of a judge their costs go up massively and go up each day after that if it goes over a day.

[Colin MacKinnon]

Which court is it in? Maybe Rhys can try being a court reporter? Is there a good hotel nearby he can review too!

[JDB]

Lady London wrote:

Remember the moment their lawyer steps in front of a judge their costs go up massively and go up each day after that if it goes over a day.

Unless they engage counsel, the solicitors will attend and will be paid almost nothing unless they win. Alternatively, they might even find very cheap counsel on a success fee basis. In the event they were to win and be awarded any costs, they will ask for the uplifted fee. It’s listed for two hours (not days) which is already a very long time for this sort of hearing.

Amazed neither side has apparently tried to settle yet.

[Jon]

@LadyLondon Very much my thinking too, although I’d prefer not to have any confidentiality restrictions at all.

@Colin Lol. It’s virtual – sorry Rhys! 😉

@JDB To your last point, I couldn’t possibly comment, except to say one should never assume 😉

It has indeed been listed for two hours (in a block) and Creation apparently appointed counsel on Friday afternoon.

[JDB]

Jon wrote:

@LadyLondon Very much my thinking too, although I’d prefer not to have any confidentiality restrictions at all.

@Colin Lol. It’s virtual – sorry Rhys! 😉

@JDB To your last point, I couldn’t possibly comment, except to say one should never assume 😉

It has indeed been listed for two hours (in a block) and Creation apparently appointed counsel on Friday afternoon.

Counsel may move things along a bit, including improving the prospects of settlement. Also more likely to have that settlement as a (consent) order to make sure the terms are honoured.

[Colin MacKinnon]

In Scotland the public and press can attend virtual hearings.

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/coming-to-court/access-to-virtual-hearings

So maybe an article on the best hotel chain to watch court cases from?!

[JDB]

Most court cases in England (other than many Family proceedings) are also open.

[Lady London]

Good luck for this week @Jon!

[Crafty]

So can we attend it virtually? Anyone know how?

[Harrier25]

Crafty wrote:

So can we attend it virtually? Anyone know how?

That would be fun!

[Jon]

My hearing has now taken place. It was long (we used the full two hours and then some, not the clear-cut case perhaps many of us thought it would be). Inconclusive outcome – it will go to written judgement unless we settle first. I’m mindful that I probably can’t say much more at this stage as confidentially will be in play.

A few notes on court process though, in case it’s useful to anyone else (whether for this matter or any other).

My hearing was virtual, via Microsoft Teams. The court sends the login details out about 3 days before, although mine didn’t reach me, so I called the court the day before to get them.

Worth installing the Teams app if you don’t already have it (although it can be done via web browser if you prefer), and definitely log in well beforehand to check it’s all working and to set up your audio/visual preferences etc, especially if you’re not already familiar with the vagaries of MS Teams 😉

On the day, log in about 10-15 minutes prior, and a clerk of the court will be along to let you in and check everything’s working, then once all parties are present, the judge will join and off you go. So if the hearing time arrives and you haven’t been let in, probably a good idea to call the court and make sure they’re not somewhere else waiting for you 😉

Useful to have as much screen real-estate as you can, for the various documents you’re likely to be referring to (I had laptop, external monitor, and iPad).

In my experience, Teams can cause performance issues (and occasionally crashes) on some laptops (MacBook, in my case), so may be worth having a second device (e.g. tablet or phone) set up ready to quickly switch over to if need be (wasn’t necessary for me here, but I’ve had to in the past for business meetings).

The hearing is recorded, and I may be mistaken, but I think I saw a message pop up about auto-transcription – I might follow that up as I wouldn’t mind getting a transcript for my records, although looking at the application form for that, it looks like it’s usually done manually and there is of course a cost. If anyone knows anything about that, do share.

Feel free to ask questions, though I may not be able to answer them.

Good luck to whoever goes next! 😉 (I should probably add that court is not at all scary or anything to be nervous about, but I think perhaps being a litigant in person does create its own challenges.)

[strickers]

Well done Jon, fingers crossed for a positive outcome.

[Lady London]

@Jon did the other side ambush you with anything or did they come up with something unexpected?

I am wondering which points made it require a written judgment. Is that code for “judge has to go and reference sources in order to check things before being able to decide”?