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  • Crafty 150 posts

    I’ve now responded to my case handler to say that IHG has unexpectedly sent me some points, but not enough, and I’m still missing my free night voucher; and clarified that for the avoidance of doubt, I haven’t “accepted” these points, and the case very much should remain open.

    EwanG 111 posts

    I’d rejected the Creation offer and found myself with:
    >20k Points credited on 3rd April – this is the correct total for November and December spend (until card disabled).
    No points yet for September and October (<2k points)
    Neither of my free night certificates credited

    Seems odd to miss out the points from those first 2 months, but after the shambles from Creation, nothing surprises me!

    memesweeper 1,244 posts

    Just a data point: I didn’t use FOS, my case is outstanding a hearing at the county court, and I’ve had no offer from Creation or their lawyers. No points or free nights have appeared on my IHG account either.

    I imagine eventually I’ll get a similar offer, and if the underlying calculation is correct, and, if my court fees are covered, I’ll accept of course. What’s of interest in my case (and this presumably applies to handful of other people here) is will Creation make the same offer to people who never went to FOS? I would expect a normal company with standard ethics and business practices to systematically track down those that have been affected and offer the same compensation. But this is Creation. So maybe they won’t. Will FOS care if they won’t? Can they be directed to make good on their broken promises to all customers, not just those that complain?


    @jdb
    your ire at those that have clogged up FOS with complaints about missing free hotel nights (when FOS should be dealing with missing pensions etc) should be rightfully directed at Creation who created an inevitable backlash to their petty and unlawful actions. The individuals seeking restitution — through the very mechanism Creation told them about — are not in any way shape or form the wrong doers.

    JDB 4,339 posts

    @memesweeper my ‘ire’ wasn’t directly at those making claims to the FOS per se, but those chasing them repeatedly. The FOS does triage complaints and, however it feels to those affected, these ones are very low down the scale of harm/importance. While you correctly point the finger at Creation, you should also direct your ire at those whose greed and bravado provoked Creation into stopping the use of Curve and cancelling a small percentage of accounts. They precipitated all this such that you and others lost your cards and their future points and voucher earning potential.

    The FOS hasn’t done a bad job, has got to the bottom of the issue and essentially forced a settlement. The outcome of this vs MCOL is interesting in demonstrating the difference between ‘fairness’ in consumer law vs that within the FCA handbook with its principles/rules/guidance/outcomes regime.

    Aston100 1,382 posts

    The FOS hasn’t done a bad job

    Adding to my list of JDB’isms.

    Jamjaw 37 posts

    I accepted – nothing yet!

    Lady London 2,030 posts

    I would be quite surprised if the FOS does not require Creation to offer the same terms, at a minimim, to every cardholder whose account they cancelled. And preferably they should ensure Creation cleans up its card agreement to ensure it is fair.

    However especially in light of the fact that it doesn’t appear as though the FOS has required Creation to increase the amounts they should have provided 18 months ago, and are only providing now partially so far, and under duress and 18+ months late… well the FOS really hasn’t done the job

    harley 109 posts

    A furthwe amount of points has just landed in my account today ontop of the amount from monday- this is now the total i expected. Although i also had rejected the FOS proposal weeks ago

    SteveJ 977 posts

    @harley same. In total expected points have now arrived.

    Harrier25 849 posts

    Even now Creation aren’t acting properly. The FCA should terminate their licence.

    rams 223 posts

    I have also had another addition of points today. Reflecting total balance that was in my account

    PeteM 715 posts

    05/04/2023
    IHG Credit Card Goodwill Adjustment
    113 pts

    The point may have arrived despite me rejecting the offer, but my fight continues 🙂

    NorthernLass 7,472 posts

    Indeed, my “missing” 10k points have also shown up, though I still only have 1 free night certificate. This peeves me slightly as I had claimed two, one was nailed on and the other slightly grey, lol.

    eskimoboy 14 posts

    So like others have said my remaining points have posted No sign of the pro rata card fee yet though!

    Crafty 150 posts

    I have a further small tranche, yesterday, but still less than half of my total. And no free night in sight. So here’s hoping they haven’t reached the end of addressing the matter…

    JDB 4,339 posts

    However especially in light of the fact that it doesn’t appear as though the FOS has required Creation to increase the amounts they should have provided 18 months ago, and are only providing now partially so far, and under duress and 18+ months late… well the FOS really hasn’t done the job

    The FOS doesn’t have the power to add “extra” and even if it did, could hardly ask Creation to pay for FOS delays. I thought your comment was premature as more points were being delivered and continue to be, per multiple posters.

    In terms of delay, the FOS is another hard pressed public service with too few staff trying to deal with an explosion of complaints albeit with no discernible uptick in upheld ones. They rightly have to triage cases and you couldn’t objectively say these case should be at the top of the list. The FOS has obliged Creation to provide free night vouchers to those not strictly entitled to them per the terms and also required pro rata refunds also not strictly required. It has happened within a similar timeframe to those who went to MCOL because they thought it would be quicker and get a better result. The FOS as a statutory body subject to Judicial Review has to act in a very specific and methodical way to avoid its decisions being challenged; that does take time. Nobody has waited 18 months.

    If you analyse the facts rather than just being angry, a number of cardholders broke the spirit of the terms earning points by taking cash advances they knew they shouldn’t. Those people have then rather ironically insisted on the letter of the law being applied to their complaints. What the FOS has done (which MCOL can’t) is to apply the letter and spirit of the law greatly to the advantage of cardholders.

    I’m all for fair criticism where it’s due, but aside the delay, I don’t think your criticism is justified and much is because you say they should have done things they cannot lawfully do.

    Lady London 2,030 posts

    @JDB Creation closed accounts in November 2021. We are now in April 2023, over 17 months later. Creation *still* hasn’t paid what they owe. We have some reports of partial restitution, only. And many not paid at all. Into this 17th+ month.

    Is it too much to reasonably calculate that Creation won’t have paid in full, in less than 4 weeks from now? So that takes us to the 18 month mark when Creation still won’t have paid what they owe.

    The FOS is nothing to do with it – Creation owes the fee refunds, IHG points and free nights and should have done the decent (and by the way, contractual) thing and paid. 18 months ago, realistically, by the time they pay in full. Not to mention quite possibly longer, till Creation pays. What.they.owe.

    The FOS, since they have been asked to intervene – as the FINANCE industry ombudsman, should be obliged to add the time value of money to its solutions. Time value of money is FINANCE 101. I am stunned that the FINANCE INDUSTRY ombudsman is not, competently, forcing this to be taken into account in any remedy they are involved with. It’s Finance 101… I am gobsmacked.

    Let’s not go into FOS delays, which are just one excuse after another. The FOS perhaps wanting to avoid its own delays being brought up (again), I hope is not a reason for their negligence in not requiring losses due to the time value of money or values being received notably late, to be taken account of by miscreant finance industry providers. The miscreant in this specific case being : Creation.

    Who cares about the tiny, unusual, minority who might have embarrassed Creation by exposing their incompetence? As you yourself point out Creation responded by unfairly treating a much larger number of other cardholders. Their response included breaching the terms of their own card agreement, which was just amateurish, further proving their unfitness as a financial provider. Like you, I am more concerned about the indecency of the way Creation has ended up treating a large number of cardholders who did nothing wrong. So we agree on that.

    stevenhp1987 330 posts

    FOS replied to me regarding my question as to why I never received the generic offer…

    “In terms of the offers, we were relaying offers made by Creation. They were made on some, but not all cases.”

    I wonder what criteria they used to not bother to offer on some cases!

    JDB 4,339 posts

    FOS replied to me regarding my question as to why I never received the generic offer…

    “In terms of the offers, we were relaying offers made by Creation. They were made on some, but not all cases.”

    I wonder what criteria they used to not bother to offer on some cases!

    My recollection is that you have told us a few times that your account, unlike most, was closed peremptorily so presumably that puts you in a different category to others, but who knows what the upshot of that will be.

    rams 223 posts

    If creation had written to card holders who had supposedly taken advantage of their lax processes to advise them this is why the card is closing creation would have a point. They didn’t though and just sent a letter saying account is closing without saying why. They are an amateur organisation. Simple as that. Allowing bills to be paid off by credit cards, unreal. Even advertising it on the payment page. And that’s without getting onto curve. Management at creation not the smartest it’s fair to say.

    JDB 4,339 posts

    If creation had written to card holders who had supposedly taken advantage of their lax processes to advise them this is why the card is closing creation would have a point. They didn’t though and just sent a letter saying account is closing without saying why. They are an amateur organisation. Simple as that. Allowing bills to be paid off by credit cards, unreal. Even advertising it on the payment page. And that’s without getting onto curve. Management at creation not the smartest it’s fair to say.

    Yes, they were hopelessly amateur. The law does not require a card provider to tell you why they are closing your account with two months notice, so as a matter of practice nobody does. It essentially doesn’t matter as no reason is required and card providers simply don’t want to get into some pointless argument and they were right not to go down the ‘warning’ route as the Curve closures proved.

    Rui N. 828 posts

    If creation had written to card holders who had supposedly taken advantage of their lax processes to advise them this is why the card is closing creation would have a point. They didn’t though and just sent a letter saying account is closing without saying why. They are an amateur organisation. Simple as that. Allowing bills to be paid off by credit cards, unreal. Even advertising it on the payment page. And that’s without getting onto curve. Management at creation not the smartest it’s fair to say.

    They didn’t even need to do that. They just needed to say “starting from date X you’ll no longer accrue any points from your purchases”. That would be a number of complaints already off the table.

    Colin MacKinnon 286 posts

    Ah @JDB – cash advances. Maybe that was what got me – I took out £10 or £20 a few times to pay the barber. (Yes, a real barber. That’s no secret code for a Beardy credit card!)

    Anyway, Mrs Mack has got the second tranche of her points – so £99 refunded months ago, free night a few days ago, and now all the points. All is well!

    My case, which I accepted the FoS solution on, is still in limbo.

    Now, are we better off that we would have been 18 months ago, since the price to hotels continues to skyrocket? So “free” is now worth a substantial sum, even in a Holiday Inn!

    Colin MacKinnon 286 posts

    Ah @JDB – cash advances. Maybe that was what got me – I took out £10 or £20 a few times to pay the barber. (Yes, a real barber. That’s no secret code for a Beardy credit card!)

    Anyway, Mrs Mack has got the second tranche of her points – so £99 refunded months ago, free night a few days ago, and now all the points. All is well!

    My case, which I accepted the FoS solution on, is still in limbo.

    Now, are we better off that we would have been 18 months ago, since the price to hotels continues to skyrocket? So “free” is now worth a substantial sum, even in a Holiday Inn! Who actually pays for the room – is it a flat rate to IHG, a flat rate to the hotel or a flat rate to Creation. Or a variable rate? Interested to know since the Free Night seems to have greater availability.

    Jon9 16 posts

    I have a further small tranche, yesterday, but still less than half of my total. And no free night in sight. So here’s hoping they haven’t reached the end of addressing the matter…

    I have received all my points but no free night yet. My year end was October, so I had assumed a straight forward resolution.

    Hopefully they aren’t now going to claim that as I had my £99 fee refunded in November, I never actually reached year end…

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