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  • FFoxSake 217 posts

    The majority of this thread seems to be about IHG Creation (understandably so).
    But there were also some legacy Marriott Creation cards caught up in the same cancellation wave.

    Has anyone received any missing/frozen Marriott points from their Creation cards since they were cancelled?

    Saddle Point 13 posts

    Long time observer but first time poster (too busy!) I went down the FOS route and accepted the offer, and got all my missing points and free night certificate over the weekend.

    I do recall at the time, having only spent £1000 on the card when receiving Creation’s cancellation notice, that even if Creation were to honour any rewards that I won’t be due anything. So I pumped £9K spending into the card in the 3 months of the notice period, and so am pleased all that spend came to something.

    Still waiting for pro-rata refund of annual fee.

    Good luck to everyone else!

    ps. If any good came out of this it’s this pretty awesome community.

    teddyboy 15 posts

    Offer rejected 18/3. Acknowledged by FOS 20/3 (“Thank you for your prompt response letting me know you don’t accept the settlement offer. Your comments have been noted and will be taken into consideration once your case is assigned to an investigator.”). But I have now received a Free Night Award and a “Goodwill Adjustment” that covers the points that weren’t transferred in October and November 2021. I’m not sure why Creation have done this. Maybe because they know they are bang to rights on the points/free night but think they might have a shout arguing over “points I could have earned 6 Nov to 3 Dec” and “inconvenience/stress”.

    truthbetold 131 posts

    as we are now into the new financial year, has anyone’s free night certificate counter reset yet?

    NorthernLass 7,472 posts

    Which free night certificate counter resets in the new financial year?

    truthbetold 131 posts

    The one in the creation app that appears when you click on the points earned section. Shows where you are in relation to the £10k annual spend requirement.

    strickers 657 posts

    as we are now into the new financial year, has anyone’s free night certificate counter reset yet?

    It’s not tied to the financial year, it’s a calendar year from when you signed up. My wife’s account resets in Dec, mine in July.

    Ryanfozzie 26 posts

    Hi all!

    I have just had my Credit Card closed with another points earning provider (will give more info in due course) as I’ve clearly been naughty and they don’t want to do business with me anymore (just like how Creation acted with many of us). I’ve always wondered, how does this affect your credit report / rating? I can’t see it being discussed much.

    WillPS 194 posts

    Hi all!

    I have just had my Credit Card closed with another points earning provider (will give more info in due course) as I’ve clearly been naughty and they don’t want to do business with me anymore (just like how Creation acted with many of us). I’ve always wondered, how does this affect your credit report / rating? I can’t see it being discussed much.

    Intriguing, do tell more.

    It’ll show on your Credit Report as a closed account, no different to if you had closed the account yourself. Credit ratings (both made up/seeable by you and meaningful/not seen by you varieties) may or may not consider a recent closure or account length, but it’s never caused me significant issues (that I know of, anyway).

    Depending on quite how ‘naughty’ you have been CIFAS markers will be more of a concern, although Creation haven’t gone down this route as these are all ‘no fault’ closures.

    HughM 71 posts

    I’ve accepted the free night and credit of outstanding points. A small credit balance was left on my IHG Premium card (refunds from BA, believe it or not) so I still needed to ring Creation. In case anyone else is in the same situation, there’s a free number: 0800 7835881. They are now processing my refund, and the case is closed.

    truthbetold 131 posts

    as we are now into the new financial year, has anyone’s free night certificate counter reset yet?

    It’s not tied to the financial year, it’s a calendar year from when you signed up. My wife’s account resets in Dec, mine in July.

    Ok but my year ended 24 March. I received the annual statement and the free night but the counter still has not reset

    Dan Hurley 22 posts

    Is there anyone else on here like me that had their account closed by Creation and doesn’t know why. It had been open 5 weeks and I never used Curve.

    Harrier25 849 posts

    Was your card closed down recently or at the end of 2021?

    Dan Hurley 22 posts

    It was 2021, same time as they blocked Curve and closed other accounts but I’ve never had a Curve card.

    davefl 1,218 posts

    Is there anyone else on here like me that had their account closed by Creation and doesn’t know why. It had been open 5 weeks and I never used Curve.

    Yes, I’d had it for a couple of years, it wasn’t connected to curve and they owe me 52 points

    Dan Hurley 22 posts

    Any idea why they closed it? I’m just curious, the only reason I could think of for me was that it was the large amount I spent on the card. In the month and a bit I had the card I bought 2 expensive double beds (2.5k with built in TVs) one of those I bought for myself and my father in law saw it and decided he wanted one. We put it through my card for the points. I also work for a supermarket, it was during the pandemic I shopped at the end of my shifts for a few friends and dropped stuff at their door, people that were vulnerable or elderly and my cousin who has 6 kids who was screwed up by the quantity limits to stop panic buying. Maybe because I spent so much on the card they thought it was being used for business use? Even if I was using it for business (I wasn’t) I don’t see why they were that bothered tbh.

    I also don’t understand why they went so hard on the “miscreant” accounts manufacturing spend with Curve. They still got their transaction fees. It was Curve that got f***ed over by it.

    Aston100 1,379 posts

    I also don’t understand why they went so hard on the “miscreant” accounts manufacturing spend with Curve. They still got their transaction fees. It was Curve that got f***ed over by it.

    Those IHG points awarded for the MS activity (and otherwise) were costing Creation.

    WillPS 194 posts

    Any idea why they closed it? I’m just curious, the only reason I could think of for me was that it was the large amount I spent on the card. In the month and a bit I had the card I bought 2 expensive double beds (2.5k with built in TVs) one of those I bought for myself and my father in law saw it and decided he wanted one. We put it through my card for the points. I also work for a supermarket, it was during the pandemic I shopped at the end of my shifts for a few friends and dropped stuff at their door, people that were vulnerable or elderly and my cousin who has 6 kids who was screwed up by the quantity limits to stop panic buying. Maybe because I spent so much on the card they thought it was being used for business use? Even if I was using it for business (I wasn’t) I don’t see why they were that bothered tbh.

    I also don’t understand why they went so hard on the “miscreant” accounts manufacturing spend with Curve. They still got their transaction fees. It was Curve that got f***ed over by it.

    Issuers don’t get ‘transaction fees’. They get a commission of interchange revenue paid to Visa/Mastercard. For UK cards used at UK merchants this is capped at 0.3%.

    In other words Creation were getting a share of 0.3% of the transaction. We don’t know what Creation were/are paying for IHG points, but it’s vanishing unlikely that it’s less than 0.3p.

    davefl 1,218 posts

    @Dan Hurley I have no clue. My spend was only a few hundred a month at best,some months nothing at all. Retailers that didn’t take Amex and the odd IHG hotel. Nothing MS, nothing Curve.

    Dan Hurley 22 posts

    Any idea why they closed it? I’m just curious, the only reason I could think of for me was that it was the large amount I spent on the card. In the month and a bit I had the card I bought 2 expensive double beds (2.5k with built in TVs) one of those I bought for myself and my father in law saw it and decided he wanted one. We put it through my card for the points. I also work for a supermarket, it was during the pandemic I shopped at the end of my shifts for a few friends and dropped stuff at their door, people that were vulnerable or elderly and my cousin who has 6 kids who was screwed up by the quantity limits to stop panic buying. Maybe because I spent so much on the card they thought it was being used for business use? Even if I was using it for business (I wasn’t) I don’t see why they were that bothered tbh.

    I also don’t understand why they went so hard on the “miscreant” accounts manufacturing spend with Curve. They still got their transaction fees. It was Curve that got f***ed over by it.

    Issuers don’t get ‘transaction fees’. They get a commission of interchange revenue paid to Visa/Mastercard. For UK cards used at UK merchants this is capped at 0.3%.

    In other words Creation were getting a share of 0.3% of the transaction. We don’t know what Creation were/are paying for IHG points, but it’s vanishing unlikely that it’s less than 0.3p.

    If they are paying more than 0.3p per point they would be making a loss from every transaction, manufactured or not.

    I bought two expensive double beds from Dreams for about 2.5k each. Dreams then pay Creation their 0.3%.

    A dodgy user “buys” 5k of premium bonds with Curve. NS and I pay Curve a few pennies for the debit card transaction. Curve pay Creation their 0.3%.

    That’s how I understand it.

    Creation should be just as happy with either purchase. MS (or cash recycling as they call it) is banned in the Curve Ts and Cs. Why aren’t they the ones jumping on it?

    JDB 4,339 posts

    @Dan Hurley the problem for Creation was the sheer quantum of the transactions. Many people weren’t just depositing money at NS&I, but shortly thereafter taking it out and then re depositing the same sum, rinse and repeat. They were also paying off other credit cards with their Creation card, topping up Revolut cards etc. so overall some people were circulating hundreds of thousands and even millions and inappropriately making cash type transactions at a big cost to Creation. Obviously, Creation should have spotted this much earlier and enforced terms re cash advances. The economics of these cards are based on some sort of average spending expectation and the hope they will pick up some other fees, so the cost to Creation of this activity was huge.

    Supergers49 225 posts

    Creation should have spotted this much earlier and enforced terms re cash advances.

    And my suspicion has always been that Creation’s technology was sufficiently antiquated, complex or both, that the types of changes required to enforce these rules were probably far more costly than they were prepared to invest… especially as I believe they are looking to exit the co-branded market (or the credit card market) in the UK. Much easier to shut everything down and play hard ball for 2-3 years.

    JDB 4,339 posts

    Creation should have spotted this much earlier and enforced terms re cash advances.

    And my suspicion has always been that Creation’s technology was sufficiently antiquated, complex or both, that the types of changes required to enforce these rules were probably far more costly than they were prepared to invest… especially as I believe they are looking to exit the co-branded market (or the credit card market) in the UK. Much easier to shut everything down and play hard ball for 2-3 years.

    Only a tiny number of accounts were shut down – over 95% still have their cards and a massive ongoing cost saving for all the points saved.

    Dan Hurley 22 posts

    @Dan Hurley the problem for Creation was the sheer quantum of the transactions. Many people weren’t just depositing money at NS&I, but shortly thereafter taking it out and then re depositing the same sum, rinse and repeat. They were also paying off other credit cards with their Creation card, topping up Revolut cards etc. so overall some people were circulating hundreds of thousands and even millions and inappropriately making cash type transactions at a big cost to Creation. Obviously, Creation should have spotted this much earlier and enforced terms re cash advances. The economics of these cards are based on some sort of average spending expectation and the hope they will pick up some other fees, so the cost to Creation of this activity was huge.

    I still believe Curve will have been losing far more than Creation from it. It will have cost Curve 0.3% per transaction. It will have cost Creation the difference between 0.3p and the cost of 1 IHG point per transaction. I doubt that was much. If they were paying substantially more than 0.3p per point the whole scheme would have been loss making.

    I suspect they just wanted rid of loss making customers. I was one, I didn’t use Curve but I spent a fortune each month on the card, always paid off in full (using a cashback credit card) why they allowed that is beyond me? I don’t believe I broke the spirit of any rules let alone the letter of them.

    duggie1982 261 posts

    How long were people able to MS with these cards before they spotted it and shut them down? Crazy to think that people were getting millions of points from it (not saying they never as they could have been making alot especially if they had a decent credit limit).

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