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Forums Payment cards Barclaycard Avios Downgrade via app – “no options available”

  • JDB 6,204 posts

    @slliw – thank you very much; will try that!

    Aston100 1,727 posts

    Hi JDB, there’s a really crappy fried chicken shop nearby. They need someone to defend themselves from angry customers.
    Given your track record for shilling, I think you’d be a great fit. How much do you charge for your mercenary services?

    JDB 6,204 posts

    Hi JDB, there’s a really crappy fried chicken shop nearby. They need someone to defend themselves from angry customers.
    Given your track record for shilling, I think you’d be a great fit. How much do you charge for your mercenary services?

    Sorry, would love to help but as I have never frequented any sort of fried chicken shop I am not well placed to advise. As for my hourly/daily “shilling” fee, if you need to ask…

    Aston100 1,727 posts

    But you do such a good job of defending the indefensible, think of this as your next challenge!

    Tom2 116 posts

    I sit firmly with JDB on this one and that comes from someone who sits miles away from his views on Creationgate.

    Anyone looking to downgrade this card to the free one at this point in time is doing so after gaming Barclaycard out of the sign up bonus. They can pretend it’s because of the poor service of Barclaycard (which I agree has been poor on this card so far) but it’s clear as day, if you were really upset about service then why keep the free card? Why not go after refunds on the monthly fee which a number of people have got out of Barclaycard?

    ed_fly 388 posts

    I sit firmly with JDB on this one and that comes from someone who sits miles away from his views on Creationgate.

    Anyone looking to downgrade this card to the free one at this point in time is doing so after gaming Barclaycard out of the sign up bonus. They can pretend it’s because of the poor service of Barclaycard (which I agree has been poor on this card so far) but it’s clear as day, if you were really upset about service then why keep the free card? Why not go after refunds on the monthly fee which a number of people have got out of Barclaycard?

    I think in most cases you will be correct, it will be people gaming the system switching to free card at this stage. Though barclaycard left themselves open for it by the model they’ve created. I.e. Not paying bonus Avios after six months, not making it an non-refundable annual fee etc. They’ve also to some extent given an indication that switching the card was possible (how much of an indication is open to interpretation depending on your view point). Only barclaycard can answer whether they’d rather the keep the customers or let them cancel. Because if you signed up only to get the sign up bonus that’s what they’ll end up doing. People spending on the card, telling their friends about it etc has some value to barclaycard. But unless you work for them and have seen the figures, I don’t think any of us know what the BC view actually is. Rob himself suggested the free card would be a struggle for BC to make money off, so in which case why have they offered it? Got to assume the wider benefits to BC of expanding their customer base etc.

    brassneck 28 posts

    @rob are you able to comment on this at all, we have asked before. Your article clearly stated downgrade was available and I think you said Barclays okayed your copy before you posted it. Everyone’s experience however is that Barclays think they get to tell you the customer what you can have and it’s entirely up to them, there is a very 1950s-esque attitude to their company where they think they are in charge and we the customer should be jolly grateful for what they offer, rather than them seeing themselves as there to meet customer desires wherever reasonably possible.

    I’m quite sure that all the information Rob has published has been provided with the utmost good faith, so it is quite unreasonable to harangue him in respect of the execution over which he has no control. You are also asking, or rather rudely demanding, that he should put himself in the invidious position of highlighting to Barclays that some customers are wanting to cut and run after grabbing their welcome bonuses within weeks of launch. Probably not the calibre of customer they were hoping to attract. You need to contact the card provider, not the messenger.

    I still have no option to downgrade and I would like to for the simple reason I have a credit limit which is too small to be useful and over 1 per cent of the monthly fee.

    PeteM 917 posts

    You’ll have to help me with your logic here, @Tom2 and @JDB.

    If I downgrade the card, I expect Barclaycard will eventually resolve the issues I am having with it. I would then expect to have a long and (presumably profitable for Barclaycard) relationship with them. Who knows, maybe it will one day get to a point where I am happy to pay £20pm for it because it actually works as advertised.

    Alternatively, I could, as you suggest, cancel the card now, bag the bonus and say goodbye to this organisation. Apart from the loss of future business, I would have cost them the referral fee to Rob, all the set-up fees, all the times they’ve had to speak to me and the 25k Avios. How on earth would this be the preferable outturn for Barclaycard?

    marks7389 561 posts

    I still have no option to downgrade and I would like to for the simple reason I have a credit limit which is too small to be useful and over 1 per cent of the monthly fee.

    20p? 😂

    Tom2 116 posts

    You’ll have to help me with your logic here, @Tom2 and @JDB.

    If I downgrade the card, I expect Barclaycard will eventually resolve the issues I am having with it. I would then expect to have a long and (presumably profitable for Barclaycard) relationship with them. Who knows, maybe it will one day get to a point where I am happy to pay £20pm for it because it actually works as advertised.

    Alternatively, I could, as you suggest, cancel the card now, bag the bonus and say goodbye to this organisation. Apart from the loss of future business, I would have cost them the referral fee to Rob, all the set-up fees, all the times they’ve had to speak to me and the 25k Avios. How on earth would this be the preferable outturn for Barclaycard?

    The free card is a loss making product for Barclaycard. Why would they make it easy for a customer who has CLEARLY played the system in getting the 25k Avios bonus to then downgrade?

    Allowing you to downgrade turns you into an even bigger loss making customer.

    • This reply was modified 55 years, 1 month ago by .
    flyertalk29 9 posts

    The free card is a loss making product for Barclaycard. Why would they make it easy for a customer who has CLEARLY played the system in getting the 25k Avios bonus to then downgrade?

    Allowing you to downgrade turns you into an even bigger loss making customer.

    Because Rob has (apparently) promised us that it would be easy to downgrade (at any time) via the app. I got told by Barclaycard customer support that I could only downgrade after holding the card for 6 months, and they recommended I cancel the card and reapply for the free card…

    • This reply was modified 55 years, 1 month ago by .
    PeteM 917 posts

    The free card is a loss making product for Barclaycard.

    They probably shouldn’t offer it, then?

    can 506 posts

    I honestly do not understand why a lot of people try to “defend” and “justify” Barclays. Nobody begged them to issue this card. It is a business decision, perhaps with a thin margin of profit. Then, they could’ve upped their game and offer other products to Avios Plus owners to make more money off of them. I don’t understand how the free card can be a loss making product. That defies reason.
    Plus, if Rob had advised them, how is “getting 25K and canceling” is playing the system? That IS part of the system — even cancelling or downgrading after 6 months of use.

    I think Barclays product is good but the service is awful, which explains how they are trying to make money off of it.
    I am not going to defend neither Barclays nor Rob. There is a lot to criticise as well. Yet, I have no hope that there will be any significant improvement on either side — because that’d require investment and money. Not going to happen with this interbank exchange rate cap.

    Tom2 116 posts

    The free card is a loss making product for Barclaycard.

    They probably shouldn’t offer it, then?

    We all know the reasons why they offer the free card, the type of person who immediately downgrades after getting the 25k Avios is not what the free card was designed for. Rob himself has stated that the free card is loss making.

    Tom2 116 posts

    I honestly do not understand why a lot of people try to “defend” and “justify” Barclays. Nobody begged them to issue this card. It is a business decision, perhaps with a thin margin of profit. Then, they could’ve upped their game and offer other products to Avios Plus owners to make more money off of them. I don’t understand how the free card can be a loss making product. That defies reason.
    Plus, if Rob had advised them, how is “getting 25K and canceling” is playing the system? That IS part of the system — even cancelling or downgrading after 6 months of use.

    I think Barclays product is good but the service is awful, which explains how they are trying to make money off of it.
    I am not going to defend neither Barclays nor Rob. There is a lot to criticise as well. Yet, I have no hope that there will be any significant improvement on either side — because that’d require investment and money. Not going to happen with this interbank exchange rate cap.

    You have answered your own question. How do you think a product offering 0.8% (at the floor Avios to Nectar conversion rate) cashback can make money when the interbank exchange rate cap is 0.3%? Every £ someone spends on the free card is loss making. Yes, Barclaycard will hope that they can make some money out of these people in other ways – hope they don’t pay off their card in full each month, aren’t savvy enough to not use the card abroad, think favourably towards other Barclays/Barclaycard products in the future etc. None of those potential ways of turning this loss making customer into a profitable one is likely with someone who bags the bonus and immediately downgrades.

    I have no problem with people gaming the system, i have done various banking and card offers in the past for various rewards but don’t act like Barclaycard owe you an easy route to do so. Yes, Rob stated you will be able to downgrade from the app and for a lot of people that option is not available (not available for me either) but Barclaycard themselves don’t say that they say you may be able to and some evidence suggests that availability appears once you have been a cardholder for more than 6 months. If you can’t wait that long then close the account!

    can 506 posts

    I disagree with the %0.8 cash back analogy.
    For that we need the exact information of how free-card holders use their Avios.
    My intuition tells me that
    I) a lot of people don’t know how to Avios
    II) a lot more uses it for cash+Avios bookings which in turn reduces the cash back value significantly.

    It is only a bunch of us who would/could get the 0.8% cash back from the free card.

    I’d argue Avios rewards are more profitable from any cash back rewards.

    Tom2 116 posts

    I disagree with the %0.8 cash back analogy.
    For that we need the exact information of how free-card holders use their Avios.
    My intuition tells me that
    I) a lot of people don’t know how to Avios
    II) a lot more uses it for cash+Avios bookings which in turn reduces the cash back value significantly.

    It is only a bunch of us who would/could get the 0.8% cash back from the free card.

    I’d argue Avios rewards are more profitable from any cash back rewards.

    Barclaycard purchase the Avios from Avios. Avios set the price, it doesn’t matter how the Avios are subsequently used by Barclaycard customers. Barclaycard are unlikely going to be paying less (or significantly less) than the cashout value of 0.8p per Avios. I have been involved in a business (admittedly much smaller than Barclaycard!) that had a relationship with Avios where the Avios cost the business over 1p and that was when the floor price was 0.5p per Avios.

    can 506 posts

    Are you sure a bank of this size would purchase Avios for any more than 0.8p.
    There was some news during the early months of the pandemic, if I’m not mistaken, to show how little Amex paid for it.

    But yes, you are right the bank buys it from Avios. Yet, if I know those 2 criteria, then anyone involved in this knows, which in turn reduces the prices. I think.

    briankeane 3 posts

    the Hfp page still says “Because the £20 fee is paid monthly, we can downgrade at any time via the Barclays app.”

    Given that there is no formal announcement from Bclays that this is true, and plenty of evidence on here that it is not true, this should be removed from the advertisment.

    Tom2 116 posts

    Are you sure a bank of this size would purchase Avios for any more than 0.8p.
    There was some news during the early months of the pandemic, if I’m not mistaken, to show how little Amex paid for it.

    But yes, you are right the bank buys it from Avios. Yet, if I know those 2 criteria, then anyone involved in this knows, which in turn reduces the prices. I think.

    https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/07/24/american-express-iag-credit-card-contract-750-million-avios/

    Rob seems to suggest that 0.8p is likely how much Amex paid Avios for £750m worth. I doubt Barclaycard purchased that number so if anything i would expect their price to be higher.

    harley 125 posts

    JDB you ask why people are asking for Rob/HFP clarity on this and not asking barclaycard directly which I am surprised about. It is clear you have an advanced knowledge of the financial industry but Barclaycard did not to my knowledge anywhere in the signup process confirm or deny you can change cards. Hence if i was to raise a formal complaint with barclaycard they would almost certainly reject the complaint. The issue is that this was advertised by HFP and whilst i love this site and everything that Rob and team do I am surprised by the silence on this.
    I already have a PRG card and had moved all my spending to AV+ and have now hit the signup bonus, I have no intention of keeping the AV+ so it is now up to Barclays to either allow me to downgrade by the end of this month or I will be cancelling the card and put all my spending back on PRG ( better rate once you include the 15K spend bonus) for the future. Whether its loss making or not business models usually want to retain customers. I am also looking to buy a house in the near future so have no intention of cancelling and reapplying as this would effect by credit score

    Tom2 116 posts

    It is clear you have an advanced knowledge of the financial industry but Barclaycard did not to my knowledge anywhere in the signup process confirm or deny you can change cards.

    Can I switch between the Barclaycard Avios and Barclaycard Avios Plus cards?

    You can check if you’re eligible to change from one Barclaycard Avios card to another in the Barclays or Barclaycard app5. Any money spent on your existing Barclaycard Avios card won’t count toward your spending targets for extra rewards. You won’t receive a second welcome bonus.

    The above is on the FAQs on the Barclaycard Avios landing page. Vague language as to whether or not it will be possible. Seems to be that the downgrade is only available for people who have held a Barclaycard credit card for over 6 months.

    • This reply was modified 55 years, 1 month ago by .
    ed_fly 388 posts

    It is clear you have an advanced knowledge of the financial industry but Barclaycard did not to my knowledge anywhere in the signup process confirm or deny you can change cards.

    Can I switch between the Barclaycard Avios and Barclaycard Avios Plus cards?

    You can check if you’re eligible to change from one Barclaycard Avios card to another in the Barclays or Barclaycard app5. Any money spent on your existing Barclaycard Avios card won’t count toward your spending targets for extra rewards. You won’t receive a second welcome bonus.

    The above is on the FAQs on the Barclaycard Avios landing page. Vague language as to whether or not it will be possible. Seems to be that the downgrade is only available for people who have held a Barclaycard credit card for over 6 months.

    putting aside views on reasonableness of ‘downgrading’ promptly after hitting bonus. The HFP faqs approved by barclaycard, the barclaycard Avios card product page and also a general barclaycard faq page on switching between their card portfolio, all indicate that switching between cards is possible. The barclaycard page on ‘can I change to a different card?’ Provides a clear yes answer. I’ve not seen a reference to a six month window on their pages, but might be there somewhere. Reports on this thread of six months. If so, I’d expect a lot of cancellations in the next couple of months.

    trient 26 posts

    putting aside views on reasonableness of ‘downgrading’ promptly after hitting bonus. The HFP faqs approved by barclaycard, the barclaycard Avios card product page and also a general barclaycard faq page on switching between their card portfolio, all indicate that switching between cards is possible. The barclaycard page on ‘can I change to a different card?’ Provides a clear yes answer. I’ve not seen a reference to a six month window on their pages, but might be there somewhere. Reports on this thread of six months. If so, I’d expect a lot of cancellations in the next couple of months.

    Rather odd that in spite of this being raised multiple times in comments & on the forums there’s complete silence from Rob/HfP when they’ve been quite active on so many other related topics. Even a “will ask & will report back” like in other cases would have been better than the current radio silence on a very clear statement made in their promos.

    sloth 379 posts

    @rob are you able to comment on this at all, we have asked before. Your article clearly stated downgrade was available and I think you said Barclays okayed your copy before you posted it. Everyone’s experience however is that Barclays think they get to tell you the customer what you can have and it’s entirely up to them, there is a very 1950s-esque attitude to their company where they think they are in charge and we the customer should be jolly grateful for what they offer, rather than them seeing themselves as there to meet customer desires wherever reasonably possible.

    I’m quite sure that all the information Rob has published has been provided with the utmost good faith, so it is quite unreasonable to harangue him in respect of the execution over which he has no control. You are also asking, or rather rudely demanding, that he should put himself in the invidious position of highlighting to Barclays that some customers are wanting to cut and run after grabbing their welcome bonuses within weeks of launch. Probably not the calibre of customer they were hoping to attract. You need to contact the card provider, not the messenger.

    I still have no option to downgrade and I would like to for the simple reason I have a credit limit which is too small to be useful and over 1 per cent of the monthly fee.

    So why wouldn’t you just cancel the card if it’s no good to you?

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