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  • owjey 31 posts

    I’m due to fly home to London from San Francisco tomorrow – or so I thought: My flight has been cancelled. BA have rebooked me onto a flight via PHX, and I’d really rather fly direct on the A380 as originally intended, so if I possibly can, I’d rather stay an extra night here and rebook myself onto a direct flight day after tomorrow.

    My questions are: Am I due any compensation if I accept the flight via PHX? I was originally due to land 24/04 at 1000. If I take the suggested flight, my ETA is 1335, same day. I’m in no rush to get home and favour money over punctuality. lol

    In case it’s important: I’m BAEC Silver, flying on a reward flight in Economy.

    owjey 31 posts

    I just want to add that I’ve now found an old post here on the site, and as far as I can see, I am entitled to stay here an extra night and fly direct, if I want, but I presume I would have to pay for my own accommodation. As for the compensation, how is that calculated? Will they go by when the flight via PHX lands at LHR even if I don’t take it? I would be surprised if I get compensated for a 24hr delay just because I prefer to fly direct.

    ChrisBCN 261 posts

    If you go into MMB it will probably offer you to change to tomorrow’s flight for no cost. If you want to do that be quick before everybody else does it. You don’t get compensation but I think they will pay for your hotel and meals if you submit a claim after.

    Not sure what happens if you take the PHX flight.

    BA Flyer IHG Stayer 2,169 posts

    1. If you voluntarially delay until the next day you pay for the hotel.

    2. To get the compensation you would need to take the via PHX flights

    owjey 31 posts

    I just called the Silver Exec number and spoke to someone who also offered to book me onto a direct earlier United flight or the BA flight a day later. I’m torn. 🤔 I’ll probably just go with the original one via PHX. If nothing else it’s an opportunity to fly with an A350 for the first time and bag some compensation (he said the cancellation was due to an “operational incident, whatever that means).

    SamG 1,668 posts

    An A380 had to do a U turn and go back to Singapore so I think they’re short

    Paul 138 posts

    You are entitled to U.K. 261 comp £600 Euro unless the cancellation was extraordinary circumstance. That’s unlikely given the dire state of BA A380 fleet. They cancelled a SIN flight on Saturday.

    This is the full U.K. regulation.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2004/261/contents

    Note- when BA cancel they relinquish their right to dictate terms. Article 8 gives the passenger, and only the passenger, the right to choose what they want!

    Duty of care is separate to the compensation and should be claimable to if you take the direct non stop service 24 hrs later. You could turn up at SFO and ask for this in person.

    Personally I’d take the Phoenix option for additional tier points and £600

    JDB 4,514 posts

    @Paul it’s rather more nuanced than you suggest. BA may not be able to dictate terms, but nor can the passenger. If the passenger rejects a reasonable rerouting offer, they may render themselves ineligible for both compensation and ‘right to care’ expenses and note that in this instance, per Article 9 of the legislation, it is a fairly tightly circumscribed ‘right to care‘ and not ‘duty of care’ which is a different and broader concept. The terminology matters because it’s very easy for an airline to refuse a claim if you ask for the wrong thing.

    Lady London 2,112 posts

    @Paul Is it the full £520 compo, though, via Phoenix? seems would qualify for only 50% due not landing so late after the original landing time (if it’s on time)

    TGLoyalty 574 posts

    Yeah it’s only a 3:30 delay so 50% or perhaps nil if doors open within 3hrs as it’s the actual not scheduled time that matters.


    @JDB
    a routing leaving at a different time and with a stop is not the same as a direct flight, especially if it’s earlier as you might have plans. I suspect you’ll be successful with a claim for duty of care if you delay for 24 hrs or so ie 1 night. Deffo not if it’s a longer delay of your choosing or you were offered a direct flight on another carrier not long after your original flight departure time.

    Richie 1,020 posts

    Always go straight to MMB on ba.com when you have a cancellation and pick the best alternative for you.
    IIRC you can do a search to see any alternatives without rejecting a proposed re-routing.

    JDB 4,514 posts

    Yeah it’s only a 3:30 delay so 50% or perhaps nil if doors open within 3hrs as it’s the actual not scheduled time that matters.



    @JDB
    a routing leaving at a different time and with a stop is not the same as a direct flight, especially if it’s earlier as you might have plans. I suspect you’ll be successful with a claim for duty of care if you delay for 24 hrs or so ie 1 night. Deffo not if it’s a longer delay of your choosing or you were offered a direct flight on another carrier not long after your original flight departure time.


    @TGLoyalty
    both of your points are addressed in Article 5.1(c)(iii) although there is a slight tension in the -1/+2hr window as the CJEU has determined that any rerouting over one hour earlier (per your other point) requires 100% compensation whereas the three hour later arrival is more complicated and should also be 100% but arguably isn’t.

    While a connecting flight is for practical purposes not the same as a direct one, for 261 purposes they are treated as the same – the thrust of the statute is to get you on your way at earliest opportunity although guidelines say connections should be kept to a minimum. Downgrading is also allowed but compensable under Article 10.

    On a practical/real experience level, BA will very commonly allow people simply to rebook for the next day as they will for people who are downgraded and cover the cost of accommodation but they do so as a matter of goodwill rather any legal obligation. Obviously it also suits BA to do this as when they cancel an A380 that’s even half full they aren’t usually going to find enough seats elsewhere to get everyone away on the same day.

    owjey 31 posts

    I got an email from BA saying, “ We’re really sorry your flight to London Heathrow has been cancelled at short notice due to aircraft serviceability.” I presume that makes me eligible for compensation. I wish it was £520, but I’m going by the assumption that it’ll be £260, as I’m not landing 4+ hours after my original arrival time – as Lady London mentioned. Sadly, I won’t get any extra tier points for my troubles by going via PHX, as I’m travelling on a reward flight. I also need to elevate my leg for medical reasons, but the flight is completely full (of course), so I won’t be able to spill into what was originally a blocked seat next to me nor upgrade to CW (I asked the agent who said I couldn’t pay to upgrade because it’s a reward flight. It’s full as well). In other words, I’m beginning to feel I would have been better off waiting an extra night and letting someone else who’d rather get back today do so. I don’t suppose that’s possible now that I’m checked in and all?

    Matt 338 posts

    I just want to add that I’ve now found an old post here on the site, and as far as I can see, I am entitled to stay here an extra night and fly direct, if I want, but I presume I would have to pay for my own accommodation. As for the compensation, how is that calculated? Will they go by when the flight via PHX lands at LHR even if I don’t take it? I would be surprised if I get compensated for a 24hr delay just because I prefer to fly direct.

    You would get delay/cancellation compensation (in the absence of exceptional circumstances) if BA can’t get you back within the 3 or 4 hours allowed. If you chose to go later that doesn’t affect it either way, and for a cancellation (not a delay) you don’t even have to fly at all. That means that if BA’s offer gets you 50% of the compensation as in this case, you would still be due that 50% even if you took a different, later option.

    BA Flyer IHG Stayer 2,169 posts

    Afraid not. When a flight is cancelled you basically get one chance to make changes to it.

    Ihar 156 posts

    I’d have stayed an extra day and expect BA/travel insurance to pick up the accommodation tab. The PHX trip sounds almost as hellish as being on the A380 from SIN for 5 hours, knowing you’re not going anywhere 😉 Of course if the PHX flight burns a bit more fuel, it could make it back within 3 hours….

    No offence to the OP, as I’m the same. It’s become a bit twisted when we’re coming in 2hrs 50 late and we’re all hoping for an ATC delay 😉 No idea why the level of compensation wasn’t linked to the ticket cost….

    owjey 31 posts

    I definitely regret not staying an extra day or maybe even two so that I might at least be on a flight with a blocked seat next to me or the option to pay to upgrade to CW, where I’d be able to elevate my leg. I consider this a rookie mistake. It’s my first cancellation where there were options on the same day. I presume I was put on the PHX flight due to my Silver status, but as I have nowhere important I need to be (except at work, but whatever!), I would have happily relinquished my seat and stayed overnight in favour of someone of lower/no tier with places to go. I’ll know better next time! The impending leg pain is not worth £260.

    PS. I saw the flight path of that A380 from and back to SIN. Poor passengers! 😳

    Richie 1,020 posts

    At least you’re getting an A351 aircraft and not a B777 from PHX.

    BA Flyer IHG Stayer 2,169 posts

    No idea why the level of compensation wasn’t linked to the ticket cost….

    1. To keep the system simple

    2. To stop airlines gaming how fares are constructed – which they used to do when calculating downgrade reimburment

    3. It values the time of delayed passengers equally.

    owjey 31 posts

    At least you’re getting an A351 aircraft and not a B777 from PHX.

    Fact. I must admit I am excited about that!

    TGLoyalty 574 posts

    @OP your flight on another carrier is likely to get TP even if your original flight was a reward flight 🙂


    @JDB
    agree I meant in practice as goodwill not because of 261

    Ihar 156 posts

    No idea why the level of compensation wasn’t linked to the ticket cost….

    1. To keep the system simple

    Yeah, not buying that… As someone who has got greater comp than the ticket cost, I don’t agree with it. EU261 is perfectly capable of using percentages in its compensation calculations.

    owjey 31 posts

    @OP your flight on another carrier is likely to get TP even if your original flight was a reward flight 🙂

    Indeed? I should let them cancel my flight more often! Except I now know I prefer the lounge in the International Terminal to the AA one here in T1 at SFO. ☹️

    BA Flyer IHG Stayer 2,169 posts

    Yeah, not buying that… As someone who has got greater comp than the ticket cost, I don’t agree with it. EU261 is perfectly capable of using percentages in its compensation calculations.

    You could have returned the excess to the airline!

    But whether you buy it or not or agree with it it or not that’s what the regulation states so that’s what the airlines have to comply with.

    owjey 31 posts

    In an interesting twist of events, my BA app now invites me to check in for my 1600 United Airlines flight to LHR. Meanwhile, I’m sitting by the boarding gate for the Phoenix flight. I’m so confused. 😅

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