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  • PB2 203 posts

    Let’s say you hold a BAPP for a few years before leaving the UK and moving to an EU country. In the U.K. you maintain a bank account, mobile phone contract, postal address and a good current account balance. All of which have been stable for many years. Your BA account remains linked to the above U.K. address where you genuinely stay from time to time (parents address). However you now have no U.K. income and do not pay tax in the U.K. You never removed yourself from electoral register (at a previous property now sold) or local GP register. In the EU country where you work and pay tax, you have amex platinum with decent spend and regular annual retention bonuses offered to you, and even several centurion card offers (sub 100k€ annual spend though). Should you be concerned about amex suddenly closing your BAPP and if they did would there be any consequences to Avios or vouchers earnt? Surely there must be many with similar circumstances. You may wish to return to the UK and don’t wish to cut all financial ties. Are you doing anything amex would be concerned about? You always pay card off in full each month.

    BBbetter 717 posts

    MR points should be ok. Another card that earns avios would be a problem.

    PB2 203 posts

    Two other EU based cards (where I am resident and pay tax), that do earn Avios, go into their respective airline loyalty schemes (not BA). In the U.K. it’s just the £12pm Barclays Avios Premier scheme and BAPP, all to BA and registered at same U.K. address – which as I say is not just a post box, I typically spend a couple of nights there per month. All these reports of accounts being closed with no explanation – I hope I’m not doing anything wrong. Many people split time around Europe I’m sure.

    BBbetter 717 posts

    Two other EU based cards (where I am resident and pay tax), that do earn Avios, go into their respective airline loyalty schemes (not BA). In the U.K. it’s just the £12pm Barclays Avios Premier scheme and BAPP, all to BA and registered at same U.K. address – which as I say is not just a post box, I typically spend a couple of nights there per month. All these reports of accounts being closed with no explanation – I hope I’m not doing anything wrong. Many people split time around Europe I’m sure.

    Accounts are likely not closed due to this, you are confusing this with something else.

    BA simply won’t allow credit of avios from local partners if the address in your profile is different. Set your address to an EU one and see if you can get avios from the BA avios card and Barclays.
    When Tesco used to be a partner, BA rejected transfers until the country was updated to UK.

    PB2 203 posts

    Yep for sure the BAPP / Barclays schemes require a U.K. BAEC address. I’m not doing anything underhand – just wasn’t sure if lack of U.K. income or tax residence (a change since initial application) would cause any issues. Having searched around that doesn’t seem to be the case – so long as you have a U.K. bank account and U.K. address, many people seem to hold the BAPP without issue. If I was ever asked by Amex UK to prove income I can do so – even if not in GBP. Thanks.

    JDB 4,515 posts

    @PB2 – the issue is that on application you warrant that you are a UK resident, have a permanent UK home address and will notify them of any change. To an extent, this is a box ticking exercise because Amex isn’t authorised to sell the BAPP product in other jurisdictions, warrants to partners that it will not do so and in the event of default it wants a UK service address and to be able to pursue you in the English courts. If they discovered you were resident elsewhere, or suspected you were, they would have little choice but to act so as to protect their position. In reality a lot of people do this and a real UK address where post doesn’t get returned and the other UK links you reference should protect you.

    John 1,012 posts

    You never removed yourself from electoral register (at a previous property now sold) or local GP register.

    The new residents of your previous property would probably remove you when the annual canvas comes around. It’s an offence not to respond (although we could contrive a scenario where nobody responds yet nobody commits an offence).

    If you are of a certain age or have certain conditions, GPs will send you requests to do certain things and if you don’t respond you are likely to be removed after a while (depending on when they do a tidy up of their list).

    Although you say you genuinely regularly spend time at a UK address, so if you are registered with a local GP you would respond to any letters. You are also entitled to register to vote there at the discretion of the registration officer – when you fill in the online form there is an option to say you live at multiple addresses and it does not say that all of them must be in the UK

    BA simply won’t allow credit of avios from local partners if the address in your profile is different. Set your address to an EU one and see if you can get avios from the BA avios card and Barclays.

    I know it doesn’t work with UK/EU and UK/US, but my UK-registered BAEC receives avios from UK Amexes and Hong Kong credit cards

    polb 33 posts

    We lived in the Netherlands from 2017-2023, we kept our BAPP cards. We informed Amex of our change of country and they happily updated our address to Amsterdam and sent our statements to said address.
    We even held a Dutch platinum Amex too.

    BBbetter 717 posts

    I know it doesn’t work with UK/EU and UK/US, but my UK-registered BAEC receives avios from UK Amexes and Hong Kong credit cards

    “Hong Kong credit cards“ – don’t suppose any of them are avios cards?
    As I mentioned earlier, Amex MR points, Citi points and the like should be all ok. Products marketed with Avios branding have more restrictions.

    RK228 212 posts

    I am a dual US/UK citizen with long-standing links to both countries and Amex should be aware of this, as I have transferred MR points from UK to US account and I think the UK Amex application also explicitly asks whether you have Amex cards in other countries (so I have declared this accordingly). To this point, no issues have been raised.

    More recently, in reading forums such as this, I have become concerned whether BAEC would take issue with transfers from both US and UK Amex to a single BAEC, although everything is in my name; I only transfer to BAEC (and have a history of doing so); I can demonstrate legitimate links to both the US and UK; and I always book tickets for my wife, son, and me, so hopefully this sort of activity isn’t raising any red flags.

    Most of my spending is on BAPP and I am resident in the UK with a UK BAEC account, but am sitting on a relatively decent size of MR points in the US that I have just been waiting for an Avios transfer bonus before sending to BAEC. I’ve never had a problem transferring before, but I’m wondering if I wait to transfer until after completing my summer 241 trip just in case.

    Andrew. 491 posts

    Not being on the voter’s roll at the account holder’s registered address will be red-flagged sooner rather than later.

    Finance companies are cross-referencing the data far more often than they used to. I have to go into Nationwide around once a year to explain why I’m not on the voter’s roll for the joint account I have with my mother. (Nationwide systems can’t do multiple addresses on a single account).

    QFFlyer 160 posts

    @PB2 – the issue is that on application you warrant that you are a UK resident, have a permanent UK home address and will notify them of any change. To an extent, this is a box ticking exercise because Amex isn’t authorised to sell the BAPP product in other jurisdictions, warrants to partners that it will not do so and in the event of default it wants a UK service address and to be able to pursue you in the English courts. If they discovered you were resident elsewhere, or suspected you were, they would have little choice but to act so as to protect their position. In reality a lot of people do this and a real UK address where post doesn’t get returned and the other UK links you reference should protect you.

    Even in this scenario, and even outside the UK, Amex can and do let you update your address on file to an overseas address and keep the account open.

    QFFlyer 160 posts

    Not being on the voter’s roll at the account holder’s registered address will be red-flagged sooner rather than later.

    Finance companies are cross-referencing the data far more often than they used to. I have to go into Nationwide around once a year to explain why I’m not on the voter’s roll for the joint account I have with my mother. (Nationwide systems can’t do multiple addresses on a single account).

    I’m registered to vote but not on the electoral roll for the address I have in the UK (I’m registered as an overseas voter, I also want my postal votes sent overseas). Nationwide send my new cards to my overseas address, as do some other banks. Some are still registered in the UK, at my UK address, and haven’t had any issues with opening new accounts either.

    JDB 4,515 posts

    @PB2 – the issue is that on application you warrant that you are a UK resident, have a permanent UK home address and will notify them of any change. To an extent, this is a box ticking exercise because Amex isn’t authorised to sell the BAPP product in other jurisdictions, warrants to partners that it will not do so and in the event of default it wants a UK service address and to be able to pursue you in the English courts. If they discovered you were resident elsewhere, or suspected you were, they would have little choice but to act so as to protect their position. In reality a lot of people do this and a real UK address where post doesn’t get returned and the other UK links you reference should protect you.

    Even in this scenario, and even outside the UK, Amex can and do let you update your address on file to an overseas address and keep the account open.


    @QFFlyer
    – nobody has said otherwise, but Amex is rather two faced in this regard. If they decide to close someone’s card it’s conceivable but unlikely they might close it for reasons of residency (most likely under pressure from a regulator in one of the jurisdictions). However, if they decide to close an account for more flaky commercial or credit reasons, they have a cast iron reason to provide confidentially to the FOS if someone is technically ineligible to hold the card.

    JDB 4,515 posts

    Not being on the voter’s roll at the account holder’s registered address will be red-flagged sooner rather than later.

    Finance companies are cross-referencing the data far more often than they used to. I have to go into Nationwide around once a year to explain why I’m not on the voter’s roll for the joint account I have with my mother. (Nationwide systems can’t do multiple addresses on a single account).

    I’m registered to vote but not on the electoral roll for the address I have in the UK (I’m registered as an overseas voter, I also want my postal votes sent overseas). Nationwide send my new cards to my overseas address, as do some other banks. Some are still registered in the UK, at my UK address, and haven’t had any issues with opening new accounts either.

    Banks are different to credit cards. A UK bank can open an account for resident of another country and will exchange information with local tax/regulatory authorities, but Amex is not licensed or authorised to sell the BAPP to residents of Australia and contractually not allowed to do so owing to its agreement with Qantas.

    BBbetter 717 posts

    @PB2 – the issue is that on application you warrant that you are a UK resident, have a permanent UK home address and will notify them of any change. To an extent, this is a box ticking exercise because Amex isn’t authorised to sell the BAPP product in other jurisdictions, warrants to partners that it will not do so and in the event of default it wants a UK service address and to be able to pursue you in the English courts. If they discovered you were resident elsewhere, or suspected you were, they would have little choice but to act so as to protect their position. In reality a lot of people do this and a real UK address where post doesn’t get returned and the other UK links you reference should protect you.

    Even in this scenario, and even outside the UK, Amex can and do let you update your address on file to an overseas address and keep the account open.

    Are you sure it’s not just the communication address that’s being changed and not the permanent address?
    If you are travelling for long periods, Amex is happy to change the communication address temporarily to send you cards or statements. But this ‘temporarily’ becomes permanent for some customers and they just ignore it and Amex also ignores it until there’s an enquiry in the future.

    BBbetter 717 posts

    I am a dual US/UK citizen with long-standing links to both countries and Amex should be aware of this, as I have transferred MR points from UK to US account and I think the UK Amex application also explicitly asks whether you have Amex cards in other countries (so I have declared this accordingly). To this point, no issues have been raised.

    More recently, in reading forums such as this, I have become concerned whether BAEC would take issue with transfers from both US and UK Amex to a single BAEC, although everything is in my name; I only transfer to BAEC (and have a history of doing so); I can demonstrate legitimate links to both the US and UK; and I always book tickets for my wife, son, and me, so hopefully this sort of activity isn’t raising any red flags.

    Most of my spending is on BAPP and I am resident in the UK with a UK BAEC account, but am sitting on a relatively decent size of MR points in the US that I have just been waiting for an Avios transfer bonus before sending to BAEC. I’ve never had a problem transferring before, but I’m wondering if I wait to transfer until after completing my summer 241 trip just in case.

    Do people just read some text and ignore others?
    Twice it has been mentioned above that MR points are fine to transfer from cards in other jurisdictions.

    RK228 212 posts

    Do people just read some text and ignore others?
    Twice it has been mentioned above that MR points are fine to transfer from cards in other jurisdictions.

    I thought the previous posts were ambiguous. I’m more concerned specifically about BAEC (upon receiving Avios via BAPP and UK/US Amex, especially after reports of account closures with other frequent flyer programmes) and the previous posts were more focused on Amex and MR points without mentioning BAEC.

    PB2 203 posts

    Thank you all for the advice. It was the recent reports of these sudden account closures (with no explanation given) that caused me some concern. I accept that I am not 100% watertight given my circumstances but hopefully my situation doesn’t trigger any such action. If it were to, one assumes worse case I would just lose the latest months BAPP Avios held in the Amex app pending transfer to BA, but at least they are sent over to BA on a monthly basis (and I trust safe once there like the 241 voucher is said to be?). If Barclays ever advised I was no longer eligible for the Premium Avios scheme I trust that would just be closed too – no implication to Avios accrued over with BA. As for BAEC itself, I imagine you are free to provide any (genuine) address you wish on that account (irrespective of residence) so they would not be concerned by such events. I hold a significant Avios balance (too high sensibly!) and the last thing I’d want is that account being arbitrarily blocked too!

    icemankaka 12 posts

    I know it doesn’t work with UK/EU and UK/US, but my UK-registered BAEC receives avios from UK Amexes and Hong Kong credit cards

    “Hong Kong credit cards“ – don’t suppose any of them are avios cards?
    As I mentioned earlier, Amex MR points, Citi points and the like should be all ok. Products marketed with Avios branding have more restrictions.

    I still have a HK Avios card and was ok when i last credited that way in a UK address.

    QFFlyer 160 posts

    @PB2 – the issue is that on application you warrant that you are a UK resident, have a permanent UK home address and will notify them of any change. To an extent, this is a box ticking exercise because Amex isn’t authorised to sell the BAPP product in other jurisdictions, warrants to partners that it will not do so and in the event of default it wants a UK service address and to be able to pursue you in the English courts. If they discovered you were resident elsewhere, or suspected you were, they would have little choice but to act so as to protect their position. In reality a lot of people do this and a real UK address where post doesn’t get returned and the other UK links you reference should protect you.

    Even in this scenario, and even outside the UK, Amex can and do let you update your address on file to an overseas address and keep the account open.



    @QFFlyer
    – nobody has said otherwise, but Amex is rather two faced in this regard. If they decide to close someone’s card it’s conceivable but unlikely they might close it for reasons of residency (most likely under pressure from a regulator in one of the jurisdictions). However, if they decide to close an account for more flaky commercial or credit reasons, they have a cast iron reason to provide confidentially to the FOS if someone is technically ineligible to hold the card.

    Fair enough, but (without bothering to read them right now), don’t the terms usually say something like you need to be a resident to apply, not necessarily to continue holding the card?
    I know some banks in Australia have the reverse (i.e. they clarify that if you no longer live in Australia you must close your account), and MBNA UK used to have a FAQ on keeping your account when moving overseas.

    QFFlyer 160 posts



    @QFFlyer
    – nobody has said otherwise, but Amex is rather two faced in this regard. If they decide to close someone’s card it’s conceivable but unlikely they might close it for reasons of residency (most likely under pressure from a regulator in one of the jurisdictions). However, if they decide to close an account for more flaky commercial or credit reasons, they have a cast iron reason to provide confidentially to the FOS if someone is technically ineligible to hold the card.

    Fair enough, but (without bothering to read them right now), don’t the terms usually say something like you need to be a resident to apply, not necessarily to continue holding the card?
    I know some banks in Australia have the reverse (i.e. they clarify that if you no longer live in Australia you must close your account), and MBNA UK used to have a FAQ on keeping your account when moving overseas.

    QFFlyer 160 posts

    Banks are different to credit cards. A UK bank can open an account for resident of another country and will exchange information with local tax/regulatory authorities, but Amex is not licensed or authorised to sell the BAPP to residents of Australia and contractually not allowed to do so owing to its agreement with Qantas.

    I appreciate that, but even Amex I would assume can (could, if it so chose) open a UK based account for a non-resident – I would agree the Contract between BA and Amex probably specifically prohibit them doing so for that card, and vice versa for Amex Australia and the QF/VA cards (with Amex AU not being permitted to issue BA cards and Amex UK not being allowed to issue Qantas/Velocity cards). It makes sense that in many countries only Green, Gold and Platinum are available.

    QFFlyer 160 posts

    Are you sure it’s not just the communication address that’s being changed and not the permanent address?
    If you are travelling for long periods, Amex is happy to change the communication address temporarily to send you cards or statements. But this ‘temporarily’ becomes permanent for some customers and they just ignore it and Amex also ignores it until there’s an enquiry in the future.

    Certain, it even reflected it in my online account as residential address – I had a mixture at one time, some Amex UK cards were Australia, some UK.

    Recently (sometime last year, so not that recently) I got a change in T&Cs about a card I held saying the residential address needs to be in the UK as of some time in the future, I think around Oct 2023 (so it appears they have changed that policy, at least on paper) – I didn’t action it, nothing happened. I did finally move it back in December, I maintain residence in both, so it makes no difference to me really (and they will mail a card out to a different address without actually changing your address, so I could get a replacement while away if required).

    The ICC cards that used to be available are a good example – they issue them from the UK to a list of countries – now a vastly reduced list; again, sometime last year I got a notification saying that from X-date only UK applicants would be allowed to apply, including supplementary cardholders, but overseas residents could continue to until said date. That date has long passed, but they made it clear that existing cardholders in a shorter list of countries (including Aus, but not NZ, which I found odd) could keep them.

    BBbetter 717 posts

    The ICC cards that used to be available are a good example – they issue them from the UK to a list of countries – now a vastly reduced list; again, sometime last year I got a notification saying that from X-date only UK applicants would be allowed to apply, including supplementary cardholders, but overseas residents could continue to until said date. That date has long passed, but they made it clear that existing cardholders in a shorter list of countries (including Aus, but not NZ, which I found odd) could keep them.

    Well, the ICC cards are not a great example as they are sold across jurisdictions and which is one of the reasons it has been shut down now in many markets.
    One thing is certain – the regulations on cross selling are only getting tighter and what was possible in the past may not be in the future.

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