Regular Avios booking – cancellation query

[david2910]

Hi all, i’ve looked through various threads here but it’s difficult to get definitive answer! simple question:

– I’ve just had family of 4 Club Europe, Avios RFS (not 2-4-1), LHR-Sweden (GOT), one-way, booking cancelled by BA. 10 days to departure.
– Via MMB/rebooking page, I cannot rebook onto any flights that same day. I can rebook (also into club Europe) on to a flight the following morning (12 hours or so later).
– I’m fine to take the following morning flight (imperfect: it impacts my holiday plans, but so be it I know the risks these days)
– If I rebook via that MMB/rebooking page onto the following morning flight, the question is: am I also able to later petition for EU/UK261?

Thank you all. hopefully a succinct question but these things never seem to be!

David

[meta]

Yes, cancellation compensation is due regardless of rebooking under UK261. You also have duty of care too. So accommodation for the next day departure plus meals and two phone calls/internet.

[StanTheMan]

BA have cancelled my flight to and back from Glasgow in July. No flights going up in the morning and back in the evening now. Do I have any options ??!!

[SamG]

@david2910 if you can see any other flights on ba.com then you can ask for those (e.g. travel earlier) – sometimes MMB doesn’t offer all the possible options, especially for Avios tickets. you do not need Avios seats for a rebooking, just availability

@StanTheMan if Easyjet have flights book those, do NOT cancel the BA ones and submit the receipt as reroute expenses. You do need to have given BA the chance to reroute you so try get them on the phone and note in your PNR that you needed to travel same day and they didn’t have anything to offer

[david2910]

Thanks both foe your responses. Annoyingly no flights at all to GOT any more on any days around my original date. I have screenshotted the lack of options on MMB.

No direct flights on that day on other airlines.

My best bet is to take a direct BA flight to Stockholm (as an end destination. I won’t connect on to GOT as my end point is midway between the two cities).

If I find a flight on similar or slightly earlier timimg vs my original GOT booking, and ask BA to book me on to that, do I still get the compensation? Needless to say, I’m genuinely put out by the whole situation.

Thanks in advance.

David

[SamG]

I *think* if you accept Stockholm then that means no compo , but I’m not 100% on the finer points of the regs

[meta]

I think you still get cancellation compensation and duty of care as within 14 days. This is just re-route under Article 8, but Article 7 and 9 are separate. So OP can accept re-route to Stockholm and he gets cancellation compensation plus duty of care if for example he wishes to go from Stockholm to Gothenburg.

[StanTheMan]

@StanTheMan if Easyjet have flights book those, do NOT cancel the BA ones and submit the receipt as reroute expenses. You do need to have given BA the chance to reroute you so try get them on the phone and note in your PNR that you needed to travel same day and they didn’t have anything to offer[/quote]

Thanks. No Easyjet flight there and back on Saturdays either. What a shame.

@SamG

• This reply was modified 54 years, 4 months ago by .

[AJA]

@Stan could you travel by train? BA should pay for the cost of that instead

[StanTheMan]

AJA wrote:

@Stan could you travel by train? BA should pay for the cost of that instead

We want to be in Glasgow for a football game at 3pm Saturday, and come home after. So we booked 930am flight there, 730pm back.

Both of these now cancelled.

I can see an Easyjet flight up on the Saturday, and a BA flight back in the morning on the Sunday.

If i call BA, do they have the will/ability/brains/ to book both these flights for me – easyjet up, BA back?

Are they then also on the hook for the overnight hotel – or do I book that myself and claim back? (At up to £400 for a hotel room as its 2 of us ? Many thanks for any help. This is to take my son to a nice away day football trip, so loathe to cancel !

[JDB]

@StanTheMan there may be a gulf between what BA should do and actually does. They should rebook you on EasyJet if that’s what you request and if you can’t get home that night by U2 or BA etc then they should pay for your hotel, dinner and breakfast. £400 is high, but if that’s a reasonable price, for a last minute booking on a Saturday night, that’s the price; just screenshot a few comparables. They can’t ask you to stay in a fleapit, nor will they be expected to pay for the ritz.

If you do stay overnight, you should also get UK261 compensation but for the flight up that will potentially depend on actual arrival time.

The problem is that if BA refuses your proposed reroute and you do it yourself, you will be out of pocket for quite a bit of money while you sort it out – you will likely be waiting many weeks. Keep a very good record of all your efforts to resolve with BA, justification of high hotel price etc. and every receipt. You should get everything back, but there is no guarantee and you may have to fight.

Speed is presumably of the essence as with all these cancellations everyone will be scrambling for the few seats left.

• This reply was modified 54 years, 4 months ago by .

[StanTheMan]

JDB wrote:

@StanTheMan there may be a gulf between what BA should do and actually does. They should rebook you on EasyJet if that’s what you request and if you can’t get home that night by U2 or BA etc then they should pay for your hotel, dinner and breakfast. £400 is high, but if that’s a reasonable price, for a last minute booking on a Saturday night, that’s the price; just screenshot a few comparables. They can’t ask you to stay in a fleapit, nor will they be expected to pay for the ritz.

If you do stay overnight, you should also get UK261 compensation but for the flight up that will potentially depend on actual arrival time.

The problem is that if BA refuses your proposed reroute and you do it yourself, you will be out of pocket for quite a bit of money while you sort it out – you will likely be waiting many weeks. Keep a very good record of all your efforts to resolve with BA, justification of high hotel price etc. and every receipt. You should get everything back, but there is no guarantee and you may have to fight.

Speed is presumably of the essence as with all these cancellations everyone will be scrambling for the few seats left.

Thanks very much for your reply. Looks like a painful call ahead of me. Fingers crossed they re-book me on Eeasyjet. Then i’ll only be out of pocket for the hotel – I can see £200 ish for the Marriot inc dinner.
Will worry about the UK261 comp at a later stage.

[StanTheMan]

JDB wrote:

@StanTheMan there may be a gulf between what BA should do and actually does. They should rebook you on EasyJet if that’s what you request and if you can’t get home that night by U2 or BA etc then they should pay for your hotel, dinner and breakfast. £400 is high, but if that’s a reasonable price, for a last minute booking on a Saturday night, that’s the price; just screenshot a few comparables. They can’t ask you to stay in a fleapit, nor will they be expected to pay for the ritz.

If you do stay overnight, you should also get UK261 compensation but for the flight up that will potentially depend on actual arrival time.

The problem is that if BA refuses your proposed reroute and you do it yourself, you will be out of pocket for quite a bit of money while you sort it out – you will likely be waiting many weeks. Keep a very good record of all your efforts to resolve with BA, justification of high hotel price etc. and every receipt. You should get everything back, but there is no guarantee and you may have to fight.

Speed is presumably of the essence as with all these cancellations everyone will be scrambling for the few seats left.

So yes, BA are refusing to re-route me on easyjet – “this can only be done if we cancel within 24 hours of the flight” !

Not sure what to do next…

[StanTheMan]

JDB wrote:

@StanTheMan there may be a gulf between what BA should do and actually does. They should rebook you on EasyJet if that’s what you request and if you can’t get home that night by U2 or BA etc then they should pay for your hotel, dinner and breakfast. £400 is high, but if that’s a reasonable price, for a last minute booking on a Saturday night, that’s the price; just screenshot a few comparables. They can’t ask you to stay in a fleapit, nor will they be expected to pay for the ritz.

If you do stay overnight, you should also get UK261 compensation but for the flight up that will potentially depend on actual arrival time.

The problem is that if BA refuses your proposed reroute and you do it yourself, you will be out of pocket for quite a bit of money while you sort it out – you will likely be waiting many weeks. Keep a very good record of all your efforts to resolve with BA, justification of high hotel price etc. and every receipt. You should get everything back, but there is no guarantee and you may have to fight.

Speed is presumably of the essence as with all these cancellations everyone will be scrambling for the few seats left.

So yes, BA are refusing to re-route me on easyjet – “this can only be done if we cancel within 24 hours of the flight” !

will HUACA

[JDB]

@StanTheMan – they are talking nonsense of course! The agent is perhaps getting confused re the 24 hours. What the BA policy actually says (at Option 10) re its rebooking policy for cancellations (in Standard Customer Guidelines) onto non OW partners (or special commercial agreements on some routes eg with LH) is: “The new flight must take place within 24hrs of the original cancelled flight” which is rather different!

• This reply was modified 54 years, 4 months ago by .

[StanTheMan]

JDB wrote:

@StanTheMan – they are talking nonsense of course! The agent is perhaps getting confused re the 24 hours. What the BA policy actually says (at Option 10) re its rebooking policy for cancellations (in Standard Customer Guidelines) onto non OW partners (or special commercial agreements on some routes eg with LH) is: “The new flight must take place within 24hrs of the original cancelled flight” which is rather different!

Yep, but they wont budge! scumbags

[JDB]

@StanTheMan so you have done all you can and given BA ample opportunity to rebook/reroute you so you are clearly entitled to make your own arrangements to sort this out and get the money back later.

One would have thought it would be easier and cheaper just to rebook people rather than have to employ more people to organise compo/reimbursements which will cost more, but the unfortunate reality is that by being obstructive they probably shake off up to 75% of claims.

[StanTheMan]

JDB wrote:

@StanTheMan so you have done all you can and given BA ample opportunity to rebook/reroute you so you are clearly entitled to make your own arrangements to sort this out and get the money back later.

One would have thought it would be easier and cheaper just to rebook people rather than have to employ more people to organise compo/reimbursements which will cost more, but the unfortunate reality is that by being obstructive they probably shake off up to 75% of claims.

Totally right. Very poor show. Happy to re-book the flight there myself on Easyjet.

Then need them to move my return flight, which shouldnt be a problem. But will they cancel it if i dont show up for my now cancelled outbound flight!? What a mess

[SamG]

BA can’t rebook on Easyjet – Easyjet is a ticketless airline so they’d have to physically buy tickets and they just won’t do that

No problem with your outbound rebooking – you aren’t confirmed on the flight unless you accepted it so you can’t no show. However I’d give them a call, have them deleted the unconfirmed outbound sector and have your return protected . Make sure they note in the booking that they could not rebook you to the earliest available alternative which is on Easyjet

Then after your flight contact them for your rerouting expenses as you exercised your right to re-routing at the earliest possible opportunity (as per Article 8 of UK261) . From what I’m reading they’re refusing these upfront so then send a letter before action to Legal Department, Waterside, PO BOX 365, Harmondsworth, UB7 0GB and file MCOL if required if they don’t reply/ continue to refuse

Also ask for your compo per Article 7 as applicable

[StanTheMan]

SamG wrote:

BA can’t rebook on Easyjet – Easyjet is a ticketless airline so they’d have to physically buy tickets and they just won’t do that

No problem with your outbound rebooking – you aren’t confirmed on the flight unless you accepted it so you can’t no show. However I’d give them a call, have them deleted the unconfirmed outbound sector and have your return protected . Make sure they note in the booking that they could not rebook you to the earliest available alternative which is on Easyjet

Then after your flight contact them for your rerouting expenses as you exercised your right to re-routing at the earliest possible opportunity (as per Article 8 of UK261) . From what I’m reading they’re refusing these upfront so then send a letter before action to Legal Department, Waterside, PO BOX 365, Harmondsworth, UB7 0GB and file MCOL if required if they don’t reply/ continue to refuse

Also ask for your compo per Article 7 as applicable

Many thanks @SamG Appreciate this. Might be worth a few emails etc, a nice little fight to have for a few hundred quid.

[david2910]

Update on my situation and request for advice, bit of an essay i’m afraid but the questions are concise!

– As a reminder my family LHR -> GOT one-way (evening) biz tickets were cancelled <14 days notice and there are no other options to get to GOT directly (at all) on that day.
– Finally got through to BA and all they could propose was a flight via Helsinki (!) which would have required me to leave in the morning. I told them (truthfully) that doesn’t work for work reasons.
– Two other feasible airports within 350 miles were Stockholm or Copenhagen. Again, no direct evening flights with seats available. There are direct flights on SAS but they said ‘policy’ (not having a contract with them) prevented them from booking me onto those flights.
– They wanted to refund me given they had nothing left to offer me, but i said no.
– I have now booked SAS evening flight to Stockholm myself (business class) [departs 2.5 hours earlier than planned, and arrives in a different city of course]

I think the above entitles me to compensation, as well as a refund for the tickets i bought (not cheap). I will write up my claim etc before original scheduled departure date; i guess i don’t thave to touch my booking (given there’s no real flight attached to it now!)?

So, I was going to spend two nights in Gothenburg at a family home, for free, before heading east to Stockholm for the rest of the week. I cannot practically rent a car and drive to Gothenburg after landing at 9.35pm (i have a young family of 5, and it’s a non-stop 5.5 hr drive at best). I also can’t drive there the following morning just to drive back east the day after that – that’s 11 hours or so in a car within 24 hours. So i’ve accepted i’m writing off seeing my extended family.

So i’m stuck in Stockholm for two extra nights now before my originally booked accommodation becomes available. This is annoying, and there’ll be a lot of incidental costs too i hadn’t planned on spending if i’m not staying at a family home. Is it reasonable for me to charge BA for the two nights of accomm, as well as meal costs?

So the questions:
1) Do you agree that i’ve done all i reasonably can and should get my flight bookings and base comp covered? (assume i’ve taken vairous notes and photos etc along the way as well as name of the lady i spoke to).
2) Do you agree that i have reasonable grounds to request comp for accomm / food i wouldn’t otherwise have required?
2) If so, What classes as reasonable accomm? 2 adjoining double rooms in a sensibly placed hotel like a city centre Radisson feels sensible to me. Food-wise, i wouldn’t go lavish of course.

Thank you in advance, HFP hive-mind.

[Louise K]

Ba can rebook you on SAS via ARN to get you home.

[yonasl]

david2910 wrote:

Update on my situation and request for advice, bit of an essay i’m afraid but the questions are concise!

– As a reminder my family LHR -> GOT one-way (evening) biz tickets were cancelled <14 days notice and there are no other options to get to GOT directly (at all) on that day.
– Finally got through to BA and all they could propose was a flight via Helsinki (!) which would have required me to leave in the morning. I told them (truthfully) that doesn’t work for work reasons.
– Two other feasible airports within 350 miles were Stockholm or Copenhagen. Again, no direct evening flights with seats available. There are direct flights on SAS but they said ‘policy’ (not having a contract with them) prevented them from booking me onto those flights.
– They wanted to refund me given they had nothing left to offer me, but i said no.
– I have now booked SAS evening flight to Stockholm myself (business class) [departs 2.5 hours earlier than planned, and arrives in a different city of course]

I think the above entitles me to compensation, as well as a refund for the tickets i bought (not cheap). I will write up my claim etc before original scheduled departure date; i guess i don’t thave to touch my booking (given there’s no real flight attached to it now!)?

So, I was going to spend two nights in Gothenburg at a family home, for free, before heading east to Stockholm for the rest of the week. I cannot practically rent a car and drive to Gothenburg after landing at 9.35pm (i have a young family of 5, and it’s a non-stop 5.5 hr drive at best). I also can’t drive there the following morning just to drive back east the day after that – that’s 11 hours or so in a car within 24 hours. So i’ve accepted i’m writing off seeing my extended family.

So i’m stuck in Stockholm for two extra nights now before my originally booked accommodation becomes available. This is annoying, and there’ll be a lot of incidental costs too i hadn’t planned on spending if i’m not staying at a family home. Is it reasonable for me to charge BA for the two nights of accomm, as well as meal costs?

So the questions:
1) Do you agree that i’ve done all i reasonably can and should get my flight bookings and base comp covered? (assume i’ve taken vairous notes and photos etc along the way as well as name of the lady i spoke to).
2) Do you agree that i have reasonable grounds to request comp for accomm / food i wouldn’t otherwise have required?
2) If so, What classes as reasonable accomm? 2 adjoining double rooms in a sensibly placed hotel like a city centre Radisson feels sensible to me. Food-wise, i wouldn’t go lavish of course.

Thank you in advance, HFP hive-mind.

Duty of care is straightforward when you are put on a next day flight (so they pay that one night hotel). But having changed the airport etc. they may just argue you are getting to your (new) destination on time (same day similar hour) so no duty of care and no UK261 compensation.

In general, incidentals are not included in compensation or duty of care. You may need to call your insurance for that.