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  • Perkypat 14 posts

    Hi, Ryanair have cancelled our flights NCL-FAO in May. They are refusing(via chat) to book us on JET2 flights for the same day despite claiming in their cancellation email that they can assist us with booking another airline.
    Im pretty sure we have the right to a reroute with Jet2, but its going to mean forking out £800 for 2 flights than claiming it back, with no certainty that they will pay up.
    We can put something together with them from Edinburgh,which we can change to but will need a hotel for a night.
    Thoughts?
    Thanks.

    NorthernLass 8,250 posts

    Did you ask whether they would agree to cover the hotel cost?

    You are legally entitled to be re-routed from NCL but as you know, you might have to fight to get reimbursed.

    First of all I would try another agent as you may get a completely different response. Make a careful note of what they say (or screenshot the chat) as you will need to refer to this if you do end up putting in a claim against them.

    I assume there’s no other Ryanair flight that day?

    Scott 257 posts

    I’m currently dealing with AviationADR for similar situation with Easyjet, albeit for a smaller sum

    Yes, you’re entitled to a re-route on another carrier, but if you have to book it yourself you may have to fight to get reimbursed.

    Don’t bank on screen-shots being worth anything when the time comes, you may just get hit with stock response of “declined – not entitled” no matter what you were told previously.

    After Easyjet first rejected my claim I decided I didn’t want the hassle of proceeding so took a refund, which left me out of pocket for £115 due to higher cost of replacement flights.
    Half a year later it was still bugging me so I decided to pursue it – initially by complaint to Easyjet, which led nowhere and now with AviationADR – Easyjet have contested my claim, just waiting on the adjudication.

    Even if I get my money back it hasn’t been worth it, although different for a larger sum. I had to submit my response to Easyjet’s case whilst on holiday (only get 7 days to respond) which I could have done without. They, on the other hand, get something like 3 months to submit their case to my claim.

    Scott 257 posts

    To add: Their reason given for rejection of my claim is that they offered an alternative flight within 24 hours. Their two closest flights were the day before my original date (this is where the 24hrs comes from) and two dates after my original date. Neither were suitable to me.

    Nothing in the re-routing rights article mentions 24 hrs – the wording is that the aim should be to get the passengers home the same day as their original flight, even using another carrier if necessary.

    NorthernLass 8,250 posts

    @Scott, if you accepted a refund then you gave up your re-routing rights. It’s clear from the legislation that you get one or the other. There is a really long thread here on delays and cancellations which refers to this numerous times.

    Scott 257 posts

    @NorthernLass Although that’s oft repeated, I’ve seen JDB post that it’s incorrect, e.g. from a recent thread about a cancelled BA Holidays flight.

    “…an airline can’t simply cancel your rights by paying your refund and as the pax I would rather have the cash and just fight for the difference … ”

    Also, Easyjet rejected my claim for reimbursement even before I’d taken the refund, so they weren’t relying on that as their get-out!

    Perkypat 14 posts

    Thanks for the responses. Cancelled flights are on a Wednesday, only other flights are a Saturday, cant really move them because of wife’s work commitments. Have tried 2 different agents, same story, and very quick to cut off when I pushed it. May not need a hotel if we fly from EDI as flight times are decent; their conditions say they will provide accommodation and transport costs, but they also say they will reroute. Would imagine EDI hotel prices will be fairly high in May.
    Just wondering really if there is any chance they will pay out of we book the Jet2 flights. Am prepared to go to ADR, because I know I’m in the right, but do Ryanair just ignore the judgements?

    JDB 4,643 posts

    @Scott hasn’t given up his rights for EasyJet to refund the cost of replacement tickets by taking a refund. EasyJet would appear to concur as otherwise they would no doubt have used that simple defence at the first stage and at ADR.

    HampshireHog 131 posts

    @NorthernLass Although that’s oft repeated, I’ve seen JDB post that it’s incorrect, e.g. from a recent thread about a cancelled BA Holidays flight.

    “…an airline can’t simply cancel your rights by paying your refund and as the pax I would rather have the cash and just fight for the difference … ”

    Also, Easyjet rejected my claim for reimbursement even before I’d taken the refund, so they weren’t relying on that as their get-out!

    JDB was responding to my point which I respectfully disagree with. I would definitely have on record that you rejected the refund as resolving the issue. I speak from personal experience having won a CEDR with BA when they refunded my cancelled booking without asking me. They claimed that was the end of the matter but I took the precaution of advising them in writing I didn’t accept the refund. I also took the precaution of making my credit card company aware of a potential claim under section 75 flagging the original transaction and refund.Belt and braces maybe but whatever

    HampshireHog 131 posts

    Under the relevant legislation you have a choice of re routing OR refund. I’d be crystal clear with the carrier which you want

    HampshireHog 131 posts

    Thanks for the responses. Cancelled flights are on a Wednesday, only other flights are a Saturday, cant really move them because of wife’s work commitments. Have tried 2 different agents, same story, and very quick to cut off when I pushed it. May not need a hotel if we fly from EDI as flight times are decent; their conditions say they will provide accommodation and transport costs, but they also say they will reroute. Would imagine EDI hotel prices will be fairly high in May.
    Just wondering really if there is any chance they will pay out of we book the Jet2 flights. Am prepared to go to ADR, because I know I’m in the right, but do Ryanair just ignore the judgements?

    They will comply with ADR but you need all your whatever in a row. CEDR/ADR is not a slam dunk win as numerous reports confirm

    JDB 4,643 posts

    Under the relevant legislation you have a choice of re routing OR refund. I’d be crystal clear with the carrier which you want

    What you write above isn’t wrong but it’s not as simple as those words alone. The law doesn’t allow consumers accidentally to extinguish their consumer rights and both CEDR and MCOL interpret the rules/law purposively. Taking a refund may sometimes have the effect of ending your Article 9 rights but not your Article 8 rights. It is of course a good idea for any issue of this nature, not just in the aviation sphere to cover your basis do that the other party is on notice that any refund provided is without prejudice to your full statutory rights.

    Perkypat 14 posts

    Not sure who is replying to who here! Would be slightly concerned about losing the case as replacement flights are 400 quid each, but even the email they sent me said they are obliged to offer replacement flights with another airline if there is no acceptable Ryan Air flight available, which there isnt

    Scott 257 posts

    I wasn’t the OP for this thread, but as I chimed in with my own tale of woe, I thought I’d update with a happy ending.

    To recap, Easyjet cancelled my flight a few months in advance, they suggested an alternative the day before, their next flight after my original date was two days later. Neither were suitable, so after getting confirmation from an EJ agent, I booked an alternative carrier for my original date and claimed on EJ’s compensation form(*) for the cost of the new flights (*I was actually claiming reimbursement, not compo.)

    My claim was declined, and after some to and fro, I decided I didn’t want the hassle of pursuing further for the amount involved, so accepted a refund of my original flight cost.

    Months later it was bugging me, so I submitted a complaint asking to be reimbursed for the additional cost of replacement flights, and after more to and fro my complaint was declined.

    I then submitted to Aviation ADR. EJ still refused, using the defence that they had given 14 days notice (irrelevant as I was asking for reimbursement, not compo) and that they had offered a suitable alternative within 24 hrs (’24 hrs’ was a red herring, as a flight the day before was not a suitable alternative.)

    I submitted my rebuttal, and 3 months later have just been told my complaint has been upheld. Within the next 30 days, and more than 18 months since the cancellation, I should receive the £115 that I’m out of pocket!

    Something to note, that was discussed earlier in this thread, is that my acceptance of a refund did not preclude me from later receiving reimbursement of my costs, so dispelling the myth that once you accept a refund you lose any rights to further redress. I saw the refund as part payment of what I was due, with the remainder of the reimbursement coming later through the ADR process.

    I’ll add that I don’t feel the time I spent on this was worth £115, however, the principle of EJ wriggling out of paying what they owed was what led me to pursue it to the end.

    Richie 1,035 posts

    Thanks @Scott that’s really good feedback.

    Lady London 2,140 posts

    I wouldn’t take a refund as it can be exploited by the airline to claim that’s all you settled for and nothing else is due to you.

    Relatively few people have the knowledge to cover themselves as @Scott did, and it puts one more opportunity for the airline to say you agreed to settle for that as it is stated as one of the choices a passenger can make in EU261 text which UK version of same seems to have brought in too.

    I may have to take a refund on a different type of product later this year but as I am likely to open a dispute about the value, when I formally write for it I intend to add a note that taking it is in no way acceptance of that value as being all that is due to me as a complaint is being pursued about the value.

    IANAL so I have no idea if it will work but I intend to think about how I do it carefully. Most airline passengers faced with a refund are unlikely to be given support in securing additional amounts due to them.

    Perkypat 14 posts

    Update on OP. Put an expenses claim in to Ryanair for train to EDI and extra hotel night, paid in full within 48 hours. Cant really fault them.

    slidey 294 posts

    Their reason given for rejection of my claim is that they offered an alternative flight within 24 hours.

    Offering a flight within 24 hours doesnt get them out of needing to provided a replacement flight on the same day as the original booking, does it?

    If they offered a flight 2 hours later, that probably does.. but 24 hours?

    Lady London 2,140 posts

    Easyjet during covid tried to tell me once or twice that their rule was it was sufficient for them to offer an alternative flight within 24 hours and then the passenger couldn’t insist on being rerouted closer to their booked departure time.

    Of course this does not meet the legislative requirements as as a contract-level-or-even-less rule claimed by the airline, as generally a statute / legislation such s 261 overrides anything contract or less.

    Annoying also that the claimed 24 hours’ leeway the airline is claiming for itself is not 24 hours but means anytime in a 48-hour period – as 24 hrs either side meets it.

    JDB 4,643 posts

    Their reason given for rejection of my claim is that they offered an alternative flight within 24 hours.

    Offering a flight within 24 hours doesnt get them out of needing to provided a replacement flight on the same day as the original booking, does it?

    If they offered a flight 2 hours later, that probably does.. but 24 hours?

    It would depend entirely on the specific circumstances as to whether the airline’s position is reasonable. The statute is silent about the time requirements so it depends on availability of other flights, what they offered, what you asked for or refused or what they refused to do etc.

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