BA 10-abreast on B777’s, Club Europe on domestics & other IAG Capital Markets Day news

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• Boris says:

  5 Nov5 November 10:16

  In the old days was not the BA slogan “The Customer is King”.

  Or was that a pun on the Big Boss?

  • Lewis Watson says:

    5 Nov5 November 15:04

    Is that not burger king 😉

• mark2 says:

  5 Nov5 November 10:22

  If BA are going to the considerable expense and inconvenience of increasing the number of seats, should we assume that they have more potential passengers than they can accommodate?

• Andrew H says:

  5 Nov5 November 10:29

  Club Europe on domestic flights!

• Mikeact says:

  5 Nov5 November 10:42

  NOT impressed with the image, even if it has been deleted.

• Nick says:

  5 Nov5 November 11:06

  Rob

  Does this kind of behaviour by BA and the general ill feeling towards BA/avios etc ever cause you concern in terms of your medium/long term prospects for the site? Not that I think BA will go bust overnight but I think the days of relying on loyal long term customers is now changing along with their business model.

  Me personally I’m back to blue stopped chasing status stopped flying BA for the past 18 months or so. Why? Price and service, I’ve flown other airlines eg flybe etc just because it’s more convenient and with no real passion for customer service and thought for the customer I like others on here think what’s the point in being loyal.

  Interestingly I still try as much as I can to collect avios with Amex etc as I still think redeeming on Qatar etc is excellent value for money. As for flying BA I always look, then see the price, then look elsewhere, then think is the few avios I’m getting for flight plus car or flight plus hotel worth the hassle. We regularly used to drive from up north 3 hours just to fly from Heathrow, just to fly BA because we were proud, the service was good, the food and drink was a small but nice feature, club Europe was a solid business service, and we collected avios in the process. I wouldn’t say I would never fly BA again but wonder if I’m the only one with this thought process?

  • Rob says:

    5 Nov5 November 11:17

    No, not really. If you add together our email list and daily visitors you get to 20,000 people. That isn’t much. There are more potential new readers than there are current readers who may lapse.

  • Leo says:

    5 Nov5 November 12:10

    I get why you ask that question but to be fair this site is a bit more than just BA and Avios. My own point collecting is centred around hotel points and up until now a sideline through Flying Club. I’m a daily reader and I won’t be going elsewhere even if I part company with BA. I tend to leave the avios collecting mostly to my o/h who sometimes flies with work internationally on OW.

  • Paul says:

    5 Nov5 November 20:39

    Hi,

    I completely get your point, and agree mostly. However, I think this site is the best thing since sliced bread, and will continue to report on the best deals out there for everyone. Rob does an amazing job as does Anika and after a recent referral which I have not had time to thank him for (sorry Rob), the time and effort shown by these guys is out of this world.So regardless of BA and it’s behaviour we’ll carry on regardless and Rob and co will find the best alternative.

    Personally I completely agree and am shocked, disgusted and ashamed of BA. I’ve got a couple of error fare trips coming up then it’s QR all the way. The lounges don’t even interest me now since they’ve halved the food in the First at LHR and living up north, why waste your time… Just accept you’ll spend £40 more than the EZ baseline fare and have fun in a nice airport pub instead 🙂

    • Paul says:

      5 Nov5 November 20:45

      PS) I spent 30 mins on the phone to BA Customer Relations last week (their new policy phoning back…). It would have been a 2 minute call until she told me it was as a result of customer feedback they were introducing BOB. I asked her who they had surveyed and how many people had asked to be charged for a G&T… Promptly got awarded my Avios and call ended. Move on… It will all go full circle but it’s going to take a number of years. Spend elsewhere and it may happen sooner. Even QR are starting to cost cut though to put in in perspective and be balance 🙂

      • Alex W says:

        6 Nov6 November 20:26

        I am guilty of falling into their trap. I did a rewards for thouts survey, or similar. There was a question phrased along the lines of: would you be prepared to pay slightly more for better food and service? To which I responded yes, because I would be prepared to pay slightly more than Ryanair etc for better food and service. Never did it cross my mind that I was voting for Buy on Board. I feel conned and ashamed.

• JamesLHR says:

  5 Nov5 November 11:25

  The message from many airlines boards is the same. Cut costs and become a better “investment.” It is a race to the bottom though with cutting staff, cutting service and a confusing product. The issue is that people aren’t willing to pay, but to the point where they aren’t even covering the actual cost of flying. There is huge legal requirements to running an airline, costs at every turn, high capital and large staff and infrastructure costs. New airlines are more competitive as they do not have a workforce with old contracts and length of service, but even they find it difficult once the brand starts to mature and time passes by.

  We are being told there is over capacity in the market place, but then airlines are adding seats to an aircraft. This grows the problem, because as each airline goes to 10 across, there are more seats on the route and more excess capacity.

  Merges and failures in the USA helped with this problem, but the rest of the world has not gone through such a re-adjustment, Asia for example is now full of competition, new airlines throwing new aircraft on routes never before served, the bubble will burst for some.

  The flying public are loyal to a point and will pay an affordable margin to fly with the perceived “better airline.” But once this margin becomes too large, they will vote with their wallet and fly the cheapest. The “premium” airlines then have to adjust their fares which means their yield drops and the added service becomes no longer affordable. It is amazing how many passengers are truly naive to an airlines product. Most do not know the aircraft type unless it is an A380, they don’t know that airline X has 9 across whilst airline Y has 10 across, so airlines cannot really market upon this, especially with travel agent and online tickets.

  • Temp says:

    5 Nov5 November 12:12

    Exactly. The price/cost differential is the problem… And the lower prices go, the more people get used to it! The ex-EU QR deals are a case in point. I am yet to partake as I prefer the convenience of going direct and taking full advantage of a flat bad without a break. But I am increasingly tempted as the cost saving (and better service) offsets the inconvenience.

    I would say Asia is slightly different in that it has the population and economic growth to support large capacity increases. It is mature markets that are most experiencing a structural shift. Two points of interest: 1. There has already been significant M&A in Europe (but maybe not enough failure?) yet the trend is still down. 2. After years of cuts in the US it seems the legacy carriers are now actually investing in service improvements. Maybe this is what we can look forward to in the future?

• Will says:

  5 Nov5 November 11:50

  Guys chill it’s just locker room banter 🙂

• Geoff says:

  5 Nov5 November 11:54

  How is there room to go 10 across without making seats *even narrower*?

  • Rob says:

    5 Nov5 November 11:59

    The seats go even narrower, losing 3cm or so plus a bit off the aisles.

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