More evidence of British Airways prioritising Avios bookings for downgrades?

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• Adam says:

  26 Feb26 February 21:23

  Assuming that Singapore and Hong Kong you have less chance of being downgraded. I have 4 first tickets (2 for 1) booked for September this year. I get the impression that these routes have more capacity.
  All of us will be in Silver.

• LondonFoodie says:

  26 Feb26 February 22:41

  This just convinced me not renew the Amex card. No point getting the 241 and saving all these Avios if in the end you get downgraded because plane is full. Never happened to us so far, but perhaps we booked on flights which weren’t super over-booked, or before this policy came into force. Would have been gutted if I booked a Maldives flight and got downgraded.
  I think I’m getting the HSBC card.

  • the real harry1 says:

    26 Feb26 February 22:48

    get rational

    so it never happened to you, is never likely to happen to you – but you think it’s a good reason to abandon 241

    you’re worse than my wife with SARS & Bird Flu – my gods that was 2 wonderful holidays in Paradise (Thailand) that I only just managed to persuade my mad mad mad irrational (at the time! 🙂 ) woman to take, given the silly, inflated news

    as it turns out, they were naturally wonderful holidays with zero extra risk

    • Anon says:

      27 Feb27 February 03:19

      Real Harry – understand where you’re coming from regarding people remaining rational, but we are not all Mr Spock, we are emotional beings hence why we want to experience holidays in far flung places in the first place, despite me wearing my heart on sleeve occasionally, Im actually a pretty analytical guy who also believes people should be dealt with fairly and with decency.

      So maybe a reasonable course of action is for BA to proactively form pax in advance that their high demand & low frequency flight has been overbooked?

      With flights like ours there’s no flight later that day or even the next day. I was even preselecting my preferred CW meal 48 hours before takeoff, pretty sure BA already knew then the likely situation that was to transpire.

      BA knows what flights they’ve already overbooked in similar circumstances, they also know if a 241 has been used on those flights, if they’d offered me a suitable alternative routing from EDI a few days earlier I’d of took it with appropriate compensation.

      We all know how popular Qatar business class product is, I’d of accepted that alternative if the flight & connection times from EDI suited our circumstances.

      As for advising on anyone else “irrational” enough to be concerned about been downgraded, maybe see if the cabin you’ve booked into has seats left to book from 2 weeks before you’re journey departure, if there’s nothing left phone BAEC to ask if the flight has been overbooked, at least you’d have more info than me.

      • the real harry1 says:

        27 Feb27 February 15:45

        sorry Anon – I was experiencing real pain at the flashback of my wife moaning at me non-stop for several weeks pre the SARS & bird flu holidays, coming back to haunt me 15 years later 🙂

        • Anon says:

          1 Mar1 March 05:53

          No harm done, I still like your story tho, btw I took a great trip to Hong Kong during SARS and Bird Flu.

      • LondonFoodie says:

        27 Feb27 February 22:48

        Real Harry –
        Here’s my rationale and hopefully it will show that my behaviour is rational:
        – I assume that the new rules are indeed in place, meaning that if a flight is over booked in CW, I will be the one bumped if I have a redemption flight, especially with 241
        – I know from past experience that I am most likely to book CW/F flights on popular dates to popular destinations by booking 355 days in advance and calling the service center to secure return flight.
        – I assume (maybe wrongly so) that popular flights will be over-booked in most classes
        – If my assumptions above are true, then there is a good chance that I will be bumped off my “hard earned” CW/F flight.

        So if the main reason for me paying £200 for the Amex is to get a companion voucher to redeem on premium cabins, and there is now a real risk (50%? 30%?) that I will lose this benefit, it does not make much sense for me to continue using the card in order to earn Avios I’m unlikely to use.

        Hope this makes sense and explains why this isn’t just an irrational knee jerk reaction.

• the real harry1 says:

  26 Feb26 February 22:50

  Raffles:is your website under attack by anti-BA people? Seems there are a lot of new people spouting similar nonsense.

• Polly says:

  26 Feb26 February 23:17

  Harry, l think people are slightly ! Concerned as this may be a new development BA are thinking more about enforcing. The fact that one of our main contributors was affected is quite enlightening. It may well be route focused, ie very popular limited access places like Male, or indeed a Gold card holder insisting on their rights as Gold. I think we would have had more reports over the past few years from readers if it was happening at a higher frequency. I think as BA read this, they will realise quite quickly this may well jeopardise their relationship with Amex. As the 241 is very much a big part of pushing the BAPP card. Let’s see what the legal stance is that BA might present to Rob in the next week or so. We wait with bated breath. But l agree Harry, l think it’s is most unlikely we will be downgraded with such high frequency.
  Anon, you are being very gracious about the whole episode, and both you and your wife are very generous in spirit with swopping seats etc. Have a great holiday, and we will def not be trying to use our 241 for that destination. Sounds gorgeous, but Phuket, and Bali will do us. We thankfully have never been downgraded on any of our Asia routes in F.

• reds says:

  27 Feb27 February 00:10

  Well said Polly!

  To add, we had 3X 241 in the last 3 years in J/F and were never downgraded once.

• Ian Hubbard says:

  27 Feb27 February 06:07

  The real harry1 – thank you for the early morning chuckle…………… I have been an avid reader/lurker since 2013 and it is the situation described that has provoked my post. On a positive note hopefully the routes I wish to fly will not be under the same pressure as the Maldives……………. Ps still chuckling

• Nick says:

  27 Feb27 February 08:24

  Let’s see what they say. If this is true, it will be the end of the road for me and BA. My employer had just opened up the travel policy so that we can take the most sensible long haul flights rather than having to fly ba. And from a personal perspective, the rather rapid erosion of the entire experience of flying with ba, the devaluation of avios, the fact that cruz and team smoky don’t seem to want me on board any more and the fact that better airlines are often much cheaper means that i would be a fool to fly with ba unless I had to.

• Anon8 says:

  27 Feb27 February 08:43

  My reply from Amex:-

  Thank you for sharing your concern with us.

  Whilst I understand your concern but I am afraid that we are unaware of any such issue as of now. Also, the usage of the Companion Voucher and Avios come under the Terms and Conditions set by British Airways Executive Club, and any changes made are entirely at the discretion of British Airways, therefore, we are unable to influence their decision. All we do is inform British Airways as soon as you meet the spend criteria of £10,000 with the anniversary year to trigger the Companion Voucher.

  However, we thank you for sharing this issue with us and we assure you that I have immediately shared your valuable suggestions with the management so that they can look into this further.

  • Nick says:

    27 Feb27 February 09:18

    Hmm.

    I think this is a bit like the bob in ET. It’s not just an issue that affects the FT community like the enhancements to CW, this is something that will affect a fair chunk of the wider, ‘normal’ population. I don’t have any friends who spend any time on sites like this or would even notice many of the things that cause outrage on FT, but all of them collect avois and most of them have the BA credit card. To find out that 1)they will be targeted for downgrades and 2)they will not get a penny of commensation for it is so obviously unfair that it could potentially be a story that affects far more than our little community.

    I love Amex, and I really feel for them here. The BA they signed up with is a different business to the one they find themselves hitched to now. I dare say that if BA do confirm the stories, I won’t be the only one cancelling by BAPP and at that point they might try to do something. Let’s see.

    • Rma says:

      27 Feb27 February 11:22

      I’ve received an email from Amex this morning asking me to add a supplementary cardholder to my account as ‘all of the spend counts towards your Companion Voucher.’ What timing!

      Although Amex are distancing themselves from the issue ( see above), if BA single out these passengers for downgrading, then the main reason for paying for the cards is questionable.
      When we make a booking, even with Avios there is money involved going to BA in the ‘tax’ payment, we expect this contract to be honoured by BA.

      Rma

  • Anna says:

    27 Feb27 February 11:19

    That’s a complete cop out response and one which clearly hasn’t considered the prospect of Amex customers moving to other (cheaper) credit cards!

    • Anna says:

      27 Feb27 February 11:24

      Further to this, my OH was horrified when he heard that the BAPP Amex fee was going up to £195 and wanted to cancel. I persuaded him not to by showing him the value of the 2 4 1 voucher (roughly £1500 this year if you look at the cash price of our companion ticket, as long as we don’t get downgraded lol!).

      I’m sure other customers will feel this way, and Amex needs to realise this.

    • nick says:

      27 Feb27 February 13:09

      To be fair they cannot say much different at the moment – there has been no formal change in the arrangements, just some anecdotal evidence that 241s (or specifically, the companion) are being singled out for downgrade; allied to BA’s clearly unlawful approach to EC261 compensation.

      If either leg is true it is enough for me to cancel my BAPP, but I do that with sympathy for Amex. My guess is that BA will refuse to comment on downgrade policy and deny that 241s are targeted; and we will get their view that such vouchers have no cost so EC261 provides £0 compensation for downgrades. Amex might ask for some sort of clarification from BA that their customers are not at the bottom of the pile, but presumably BA will just say that decisions on downgrades are complex etc etc and [x]% of 241s were not downgraded so nothing to worry about. And the truth is, the chance of downgrade is very slim.

      Still enough for me to cancel, though.

    • mark2 says:

      27 Feb27 February 14:30

      Presumably this is a response to a secure message so will have come from the contact centre in India who have trouble dealing with simple things.
      I have sent a letter to Amex in Brighton by special delivery asking for clarification.

      • nick says:

        27 Feb27 February 18:49

        I completely disagree. Amex customer service on simple and complex things has been excellent for me and my family, by phone or by secure message – and I make lots of requests for help!

        What is really annoying is that having cancelled the Platinum card and the SPG card over the last 18 months, the BAPP is the only Amex I can really justify any more, and I am almost certainly going to cancel it unless BA say something substantially comforting as regards downgrades and EC261, and at the moment I cannot really see any amex that makes much sense for me. I think I might just end up with one card, being the IHG card. Pit.y

        • the real harry1 says:

          27 Feb27 February 18:58

          Could you give your reasons as to why you couldn’t justify getting an Amex Gold Card?

        • Nick says:

          27 Feb27 February 20:05

          I can for the signup, but the fee for the second year doesn’t justify the benefit for longer term use. i can justify all of the Amex cards for churning, but that is not what I am after. I need a regular credit card and at the moment, I can’t find an Amex to fit the bill.

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