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What did we learn from IAG’s 2018 Capital Markets Day?

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Every November, the British Airways parent company, IAG, gives a presentation to the City about the state of the business and its plans for the future.

The 2018 version can be seen here.  You need to click on ‘IAG Presentations’ at the top and then download the very chunky PDF document.

This presentation is normally the source of some good inside information about the future direction of the group.  This year ….. not so much.  There is virtually nothing in the document which is not already in the public domain in terms of product development and the whole tone is less bullish than in previous years.  There was one interesting titbit in the discussion afterwards – that the A350 fleet to be delivered from next year will not have First Class.

IAG Capital Markets Day 2018

The opening slides give an interesting insight into the current state of the European aviation industry and are worth a read for anyone with a general interest in the sector.

Slide 25 shows that, despite the cost reduction claims, unit costs across IAG are higher today than they were in 2015.

Slides 31-33 are an interesting view on how IAG sees brand segmentation and about the different sorts of customer groups it has.  Only 52% of short haul tickets and 30% of long haul tickets are bought primarily on the basis of price – although you may question from that why so many service cuts were made (and reversed) in recent years.  With 31% of long-haul tickets bought primarily on the basis of the ‘brand’, the bad publicity BA has had in recent years must have had a serious impact on the bottom line.

(2018 is the 2nd year running that the ‘Net Promoter Score’ for British Airways has not been published in this presentation.  NPS is the key IAG internal metric used to judge customer satisfaction, and in simple terms is the gap between the % of customers who would recommend you and the % that would not.)

Slide 35 shows British Airways performing badly compared to the market leader in each customer segment. Emirates is preferred to BA for business class travel, both for leisure and work, for example, whilst Ryanair is preferred to BA by people wanting only cheap seats.  More worryingly, easyJet and Lufthansa are preferred to BA by non-Business Class customers who are willing to focus on more than price.

Slide 39 seems to be saying, basically, what we have been saying for years – BA should stop trying to be ‘everything for everyone’, abandon the race to the bottom and give up the segment of the market which competes solely on price.  Other ‘value’ IAG brands – LEVEL, Aer Lingus etc – will pick this business up.

I will skip over the Aer Lingus and Iberia sections, but it would be unfair not to say that IAG has done a fantastic job with both of these airlines since they were acquired.  Iberia, especially, was a total shambles when it joined IAG and is now transformed in virtually every respect – a new fleet, new seats, a new visual identity and new routes.  Both Iberia and Aer Lingus now have superior business class products to British Airways.

Let’s move on to the British Airways section:

Profitability and return on capital invested remain excellent

Slide 107 – Asia-Pacific, Africa and Latin America are focuses for new routes

Slide 110 – despite taking on substantial extra capacity at Gatwick last year via the Monarch slots, BA did not need to cut prices to fill the extra seats

Slide 110 – remaining Gatwick Boeing 777 fleet to be ‘densified’ in World Traveller by the end of 2019 (although World Traveller Plus will be much improved)

IAG Capital Markets Day 2018

Slide 113 is the key one if you are looking for information on the new Club World seat:

The seat will feature a fixed TV screen.  This could imply that BA is going to use the current Iberia seat – which I like, except for the fact that the TV does not fold away and is stuck in front of your face for the entire flight!  We know this because the slide promises ‘gate to gate’ IFE and this would not be possible if the screen popped out like the current one, as it would need to be folded away for take off and landing.

“A larger seat, direct aisle access, greater privacy and increased stowage” could all apply to the current Iberia seat

The first A350 arrives in July 2019 and the new seat will also be added to two Boeing 777 aircraft next year.  There will be 6-8 aircraft in total with the new seat by the end of 2019. The roll-out will accelerate from 2020.

According to reports elsewhere (I was not on the call myself), it was stated verbally that there will not be a First Class cabin on the new A350 fleet.  This means that you are unlikely to see the new Club World seat on the New York route because that historically has First Class – so no A350 – on the Heathrow services.

There is an implication that the size of the economy cabin will be smaller, with bigger cabins elsewhere.  This fits with the earlier slides which implied that British Airways will, in the future, be happy to abandon those customers who buy only on price.

There will be a ‘product upgrade’ to First Class on the existing fleet – not surprising if there will be a much improved Club World seat on the way.  The next slide says that May 2019 will see ‘new food, bedding and amenities’.  There is no sign that there will be a new First Class seat anytime soon.

Food and drink will improved in ‘key’ lounges

There will be (slide 115) ‘increased flexibility for top tier customers’ which implies an end to the ‘computer says No’ approach.  Let’s see if a BA Gold sitting in Club Europe will be allowed to get something from the Euro Traveller food selection though …..

Finally, slide 121 reminds us that British Airways will be 100 years old in 2019 and we can expect some special events to celebrate.

If you’re interested in travel technology, the final section on IAG Digital is worth a look.

Avios is notable by its absence.  There is usually a special chunk in this presentation devoted to it …. but nothing this year.

All in all, if you have a bit of spare time this Saturday then the whole presentation is worth a read.  You will learn some interesting stuff about European aviation and new developments in travel technology even if there isn’t much new to discover about British Airways (and nothing at all about Avios).

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Category

British Airways and Avios

Comments (117)

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

  • Nick says:
    3 Nov3 November 05:58

    As you, and many others, including myself have commented Rob, “BA should stop trying to be ‘everything for everyone’, abandon the race to the bottom and give up the segment of the market which competes solely on price.”. Several years ago I commented that BA were the M & S of airlines, for those very reasons (well before they started using M & S food BTW!). IMHO both companies are similar in regard to their markets. However, why it takes these huge corporates so long to see things like this is beyond me! Another reason I enjoy working for myself, thank god!

    • Julian says:
      3 Nov3 November 06:40

      So can we also now hope for the return of the free sandwich and G&T in Euro Traveller in due course given that eliminating this long value by benefit by BA and Iberia customers has not actually made any more money.

      The reason for this is that on the majority of short haul flights hardly any customers actually buy a pay sandwich or drink at the inflated prices charged so hence the vast extra revenue stream that was supposed to open up has simply not materialised. Also any form of pay bar and sandwich service is always horribly and painfully inefficient (taking as long or longer to serve 10 or 15% of customers as it took to previously give everyone a free sandwich, wrap or drink) because of all the nadgey fudging by customers who do still go for the food and drink option over what they should choose and how they can pay for it. Also travelling on a domestic Iberia internal flight two weeks ago they simply couldn’t make my Lloyds Avios Amex card work in their machines at all and I had to switch to the Mastercard, although later travelling MAD to LHR my Lloyds Avios Amex card was accepted as a means of payment. So another downside of trying to charge the customer that is not properly implemented across all IAG operated flights.

      • Shoestring says:
        3 Nov3 November 07:16

        I doubt if anybody ever thought that eliminating the free food & drink in ET was going to bring in a significant new M&S food revenue stream. Probably just wipe its nose +++ is all they can ever have thought.

        Conversely, what they did know was that it immediately cut the cost of providing the free F&B, so that was a genuinely calculable saving that would go straight to bottom line or help justify lower fares.

        And whilst I championed getting your legally due compo if BA took away (stole) your free F&B on tickets you’d already paid for (before the change came into being) – we got compo x about 30 tickets on appeal – I never for a minute thought that BA was somehow being reckless in a business sense to make that decision.

        Nobody gives the absence of free F&B a second thought these days, well, except to ‘plan your snacks & booze and snack & booze your plan’, I suppose.

      • Evan says:
        3 Nov3 November 07:55

        I didn’t care then and I don’t care now about the free G&T and roll. If I do actually want a drink I just buy one with any card that comes to hand. It probably does mean that I’d have a soft drink over an alcoholic one which is probably no bad thing at 11.30am. Most people simply adjust to minor (yes it was minor) change.

      • Tony says:
        3 Nov3 November 09:30

        Can’t agree with that about the price or service of the pay on board. I flew Malaga to Gatwick on Wednesday and it was both well used, good quality, served by friendly staff and efficient.
        Since half the cabin staff are looking after a very small number of people the two who do the buy on board food have a real challenge.
        I fly Malaga to London 30 times a year on BA, Easyjet and Ryanair.
        BA is way ahead on all counts and particularly for cabin atmosphere.

        • Paul says:
          3 Nov3 November 14:40

          It was Gatwick. Passenger type and expectations on LGW bucket and spade, kiss me quick routes are very much different to LHR FRA for example.

    • Crafty says:
      3 Nov3 November 07:50

      M&S clothing, maybe. M&S Simply Food is one of the highest rated consumer propositions out there.

      • Lady London says:
        3 Nov3 November 11:15

        +1
        M&S food transformed M&S’s fortunes and has probably kept the company going for the last 30 years.
        However their snack/lunchtimes lines in the stores have always been down to the quality of Tesco’s equivalent, or less.
        That’s the bit of M&S that British Airways has put on their aircraft.

        Personally I find it comical how long British Airways are taking to sell the deliver the Buy on Board. On a 4 or 5 hour route like Malaga I am sure they just about manage. Compared to the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet who have it down to a ‘T’… even providing hot bacon sandwiches as well as cold stuff on flights as short as 90 minutes.

      • Lady London says:
        3 Nov3 November 18:11

        Haven;t done that route for a long while Genghis and on Sleazy that was how long it took. Point is that BA seems to need a longer shorthaul flight to dole out the Buy on Board. Unlike Ryanair and Easyjet who can have the whole cabin of up to 180 people or so done in about 25mins.

        • Me Dee says:
          3 Nov3 November 23:26

          Last time I ordered a bacon sandwich it was cold but still better than the CE offering

  • Ian M says:
    3 Nov3 November 06:15

    Some interesting bits.

    On the subject of the BA First class seat, I’ve flown 3 First flights in the last 4 weeks, and none of the seats have gone flat. The headrest area always sticks up. The crew have even tried 2 or 3 other empty seats on board for me and they have all had the same problem. So how often is the BA First class seat ever a flat bed?? Club World seems better in this regard

    • Shoestring says:
      3 Nov3 November 06:50

      Seat not going flat in F = generous compo according to FT – but you do need to claim.

      • Frankie says:
        3 Nov3 November 07:31

        I got 50,000 avios for mine not going flat in First earlier this year. Had to claim though.

      • Alan says:
        3 Nov3 November 11:13

        Interesting, is that still the case? I got the impression BA had got extremely stingy with compo in all cases recently.

        • Rob says:
          3 Nov3 November 12:59

          No, much improved.

        • Shoestring says:
          3 Nov3 November 13:10

          yep apparently they currently got some intern in the F/J compo dept with very thick finger 🙂

        • Shoestring says:
          3 Nov3 November 13:26

          or fat finger, even lol

          thick, fat – I’m neither! lol

        • Alan says:
          3 Nov3 November 14:02

          Well absolutely zero in may case on recent CW flight – reasonably long reply just reflecting back everything, not apologising for anything, just saying they understand how frustrating it must have been, etc. Usual useless rubbish, not impressed at all.

        • Shoestring says:
          3 Nov3 November 14:10

          Go for HUACA, honest, check out that FT thread on the BA board – there are some very generous recent awards in F/J.

          Pretty much makes you hope something is deficient.

    • Chris says:
      3 Nov3 November 06:52

      There is an electrical adjustment for the headrest – its one of the two switches near the rocker on the 777/747 and 380 – I think they are on the on the 787 too but don’t see first on that too often.If the adjuster is used it doesn’t go flat in bed mode – same for the lumber adjustment you need to use the buttons to roll them back

  • Andrew says:
    3 Nov3 November 06:24

    I never understand the repeated comment re the IFE screen not folding away and being in front of you the “entire flight” being a problem – most business class seats feature this – the beloved QSuite, and QR’s 787/380 version, EK business…EK First for that matter, LX business, LH First…. Basically it’s only BA and VS that do have foldable (small) screens.

    • C says:
      3 Nov3 November 06:43

      Nothing worse than being ordered to fold away your screen for landing 20 minutes before the end of the film you are watching!

      • Rob says:
        3 Nov3 November 07:55

        Some are REALLY in your face. There is a difference between, say, SWISS where the screen is a fair distance from your face and Iberia where it is very close.

        • Russ says:
          3 Nov3 November 10:54

          I hope they aren’t planning to show adverts throughout the flight.

        • Lady London says:
          3 Nov3 November 11:17

          Don;t give them ideas!

        • sunguy says:
          3 Nov3 November 11:25

          NO problems with being in your face – as long as there is an on/off switch that the crew only ever forcefully turn it on at the start/end of flight when you are sittingup for takeoff / landing ….. otherwise – whats the difference ?

        • Russ says:
          3 Nov3 November 12:59

          @Lady London, rightly chastised.

        • Nick_C says:
          3 Nov3 November 13:51

          I may be wrong, but I think AA already show adverts before the movies.

        • Genghis says:
          3 Nov3 November 15:14

          And the bloody Marriott adverts before the movies on BA now

    • Chris says:
      3 Nov3 November 11:02

      And Delta One

    • Paul says:
      3 Nov3 November 15:21

      Yea I don’t get that either, also you can just turn the screen off, problem sorted.

  • Julian says:
    3 Nov3 November 06:25

    So far as the Gate to Gate entertainment on new Iberia IFE equipped systems is concerned this does not exist in practice despite the installation of the flat non foldable screens in the Iberia equivalent of World Traveller Plus.

    I recently travelled from Madrid to LHR on an Iberia A340-600 in Row 11 in the IB equivalent of World Traveller Plus (declassified to Economy on this flight operationally although the seats were probably still allocated to those of us with membership of BA or Iberia loyalty schemes of some kind as the guy sitting next to me was a senior finance bod from Telefonica travelling to London on personal business, so on an Economy ticket) and whilst we had the full IFE system available to us throughout the flight all movies were cut off at least 10 to 15 minutes before landing at LHR.
    Instead the screens switched to some boring video about landing card requirements and the like at Heathrow.

    This happened without any warning with the net effect that I never saw the last 30 minutes or so of The Commuter. I knew the flight was getting towards the end and was planning to hop through any boring bits in the film to reach the final punchline but no without warning viewing was cut off for good just after we had been descending for 5 or 10 minutes. So this gate to gate entertainment malarkey seems to be a pipe dream (requiring the co-operation of the flight crew who can unfortunately still cut the system dead if they feel like it) although departing from Madrid the IFE system did seem to be available the whole time except when they showed us the safety video.

  • Paul says:
    3 Nov3 November 07:01

    After 35 years of pretty much solid loyalty to BA I genuinely loath the company. Events over the summer were the final straw. The problem is that they dominate Heathrow and the U.K. frequent flyer market and this makes them difficult to avoid. Even if I choose to fly JAL, Finnair, American, Aer lingus or Iberia I am still paying BA.
    I simply don’t believe anymore that anyone flies BA for the brand ( certainly if the have flown anyone else) and it’s more because of a lack of choice. That lack of real competition at LHR results in disproportionately high airfares compared to other major hubs in Europe.
    Virgin gave up competing years ago and so on any LHR long haul route you have BA and one other and often the alternative is so poorly regarded that it can be ignored. LHR LOS for example. On the route and others people buy BA “ as a brand” but in effect it’s because they have no choice. ( point to point basis)
    As a premium leisure passenger I simply never fly BA on point to point from LHR as their fares are ludicrous and service dismal. EX EU they can offer better fares but the service remains crap albeit you are saving a lot of money. For summer 19 BA and oneworld have been abandoned. I have a sub £1000 business class to Asia fare which will give me direct aisle access, a flat bed and access to a lounge. Connecting flights are using Avios on BA.
    It means I lose my gold card and in all likelihood my status with BA but this summer taught me that I don’t count, that I simply cannot count on BA when it really matters and that they are inept , uncaring and dishonest. I might as well fly on anyone and rely on Amex, a brand that I can trust and which has repeatedly delivered when it really mattered.
    So BA can abandon the price sensitive sector but I won’t really care and frankly won’t notice but I don’t believe they can do so from anywhere except LHR. EX EU they will have to compete on price as they do now particularly given the service.
    Everything else is about the future but as far as BA is concerned the future is a far country and a destination they have never ended up serving.

    • Lesley says:
      3 Nov3 November 07:20

      So who got custody of the children?

    • Julian says:
      3 Nov3 November 07:25

      Mr Cruz has clearly an awful done an awful lot of damage in a very short time if a formerly hugely loyal customer like you to the BA brand has now been forced to move away from them as a result of shockingly poor quality of service and frequently abysmal value for money under his reign at the company.

      You are quite right that BA’s fare levels booking late out of LHR are often simply obscene and completely unjustified (being about three times what Easyjet would charge for a last minute booking to the same destination) although that is the only time I actually feel good about using Avios as in those situations it is possible to achieve Avios redemption values as high as 10p per Avios point on some European short haul routes.

      • Shoestring says:
        3 Nov3 November 07:37

        I know the discussion here is often more about LH & I can’t comment on that.

        But as a regular SH (European Traveller) customer on BA, all I can say is that the overall service this year has been very slick. Planes generally full, I don’t think customers can moan about this – but loaded efficiently with always enough overhead luggage space – & going out from LHR on my route they always let you check in your cabin bags if you so wish, free of charge, it obviously helps them but it can be very convenient for the customer as well if you’re going to have to reclaim baggage the other end in any case. Nice clean aircraft these days. Seats fine for a few hours. Toilets good. Brilliant safety record. Good efficiency on my route. Several slots per day. Even had young & pleasant cabin crew last weekend but that was a Qantas lease I think. Cash fares very keen if you buy in advance. They seemed to be OK about selling the M&S food & drink, not running out & getting round to everybody in an hour as far as I could see.

        Summary: BA in Europe has no particular negatives as I see it, I can’t see that other airlines are going to be any better in Economy, not that I’ve used them much recently.

        So is there a massive difference between the competitive offering in SH vs LH?

        • Rob says:
          3 Nov3 November 07:52

          I agree, having done SWISS short-haul in Business last week and a Lufty short-haul in Business earlier in the year, it is hard to get hugely excited about any of it compared to BA – except when you can wangle a flat-bed long-haul plane.

        • Nick says:
          3 Nov3 November 07:58

          Clean aircraft I cannot agree with, on my flight from LHR to SOF with BA in September I was in row 28 as I got up to leave the aircraft I just happened to notice behind my seat and between the toilet wall the floor was horrible like it had not been hoovered down their in a few weeks !

          Secondly in October I flew with Alitalia from FCO to SOF and their cabin looked generally fresh the cabin walls where a nice clean fresh white colour which is not the case for most of BA’s old and grey coloured cabin walls.

        • Lady London says:
          3 Nov3 November 18:14

          Food used to be a lot better on Swiss though. Is it still?

          • Rob says:
            3 Nov3 November 21:23

            SWISS brekky was OK, yes. Lufty tends to go for the ‘slice of ham, slice of cheese’ approach which I don’t love.

      • Graham Walsh says:
        3 Nov3 November 18:31

        A colleague booked LHR > BCN return last week for a trip next week. £900 return in economy. I’m looking at booking LHR>JNB for around £450 return. Supply and demand rules the pricing I guess.

        I was on a flight the other week and it seemed that in between seats hadn’t been cleaned this year. It was disgusting.

        • Me Dee says:
          3 Nov3 November 23:41

          £900 is insane, catching a taxi from another airport close by might be cheaper

    • Catalan says:
      3 Nov3 November 09:20

      Paul, you by your own admission, a ‘leisure business class traveller’ are not the kind of customer that BA (and by default IAG) will miss. A full fare economy or premium economy ticket is of far more value to them than a ‘cheap’ I class or R class fare. So as upset as you may well be with BA and their service just vote with your feet and stop flying them. You’ll be much better for it and you’ll leave more of those discounted Club seats for Avois collectors like me.

    • Callum says:
      3 Nov3 November 10:51

      Where do you fly to that BA is the only option?

      People often say things like this, but if you continue to actively choose them then they’re clearly doing something right!

    • Lady London says:
      3 Nov3 November 11:26

      It’s not the British Airways brand that passengers who are not price-sensitive are choosing.

      It;s the corporate agreements that BA has that force passengers working for large corporates, to fly British Airways. British Airways has always cared for their corporate customers very well and kept a good hold on them.

      Some large corporates’ travel policies are beginning to relax though, to the extent that if a traveller can prove another airline will be considerably cheaper and still travel in the same class (= arrive in equivalent condition at the business destination for work) then some policies are now allowing travellers to choose that flight. The thing that blocks this can be the deals British Airways also has for corporate travellers with the very few decent large corporate travel agencies – agencies like HRG (Hogg Robinson) CWT etc. can usually beat even promotional fares on other airlines with the deals they have with BA.

      Lastly the foundation of any good corporate deal with an airline is the route deals for the key routes the company’s employees will fly. Again those will generally keep other airlines out. There’s rates for the City/large corporates, and even more amazing rates for things like film industry… these are a closely guarded secret but basically once your company signs up with British Airways everything will work so that it’s hard on several levels for you to choose the many airlines that have nicer aircraft environments and the fewer that have better service.

      • Joseph Heenan says:
        4 Nov4 November 09:49

        According to the IAG presentation (slide 30), only 11% of IAG revenue comes from corporate deals, so I’m not sure corporate agreements are that common.

        My company doesn’t have any corporate arrangements. We’re based in Glasgow and I very rarely see BA coming out anywhere close to competitive for business tickets on the routes I fly. KLM or Emirates usually beat BA by at least £1,000. I guess the bulk of BA’s revenue must be coming from London based customers who value a direct flight and it’s not worth them competing for connecting passengers from the rest of the UK.

  • Thomas Howard says:
    3 Nov3 November 07:20

    Why do IAG continue to rip the Europe and domestic product to pieces under the core BA brand? Why not put shorthaul under BA CityFlyer (like Iberia Express) and lower the expectation?

    • Julian says:
      3 Nov3 November 07:31

      I don’t follow you as surely service standards on BA Cityflyer in the Economy cabin are usually significantly higher than those operated by BA out of LHR and LGW?

      As to Iberia Express having travelled on them quite a bit in the last two or three years I see no observable significant difference with travelling on the main Iberia brand in Economy so I don’t see the point from a customer perspective (of the separate airline brand I mean) but I believe the point is actually that Iberia Express staff get lower wages and have less staff rights than IB Main staff just like the BA Mixed Feets crews. Even the airline magazine on Iberia Express, Ronda, is the same as when travelling with Iberia. Only Vueling represents a genuinely different customer experience to travelling with Iberia Main but Iberia will now cross ticket on to Vueling flights on connecting routes and sell checked baggage on their flights too.

      • Shoestring says:
        3 Nov3 November 07:52

        Yep that’s one of BA’s biggest issues – long-standing staff – their higher pay & pensions – their work ethic/ enthusiasm & willingness to give great on-board service compared to staff 25-30 years younger etc. No easy answers but yes, they get round it (with the union in particular) in various ways, airline branding & the freedom to recruit new lower-remunerated staff being one answer I guess. Luckily for the loyal older staff, IAG’s financial performance (and no doubt a candid view of the cost of disruption due to strikes) have removed a lot of the pressure in this area for the time being.

      • Evan says:
        3 Nov3 November 08:22

        I thought Iberia Express had less pitch.

        • Roberto says:
          3 Nov3 November 08:58

          It does.. My wife wont fly them unless she in in extra legroom.. The seats are too close in my mind as they squeeze extra passengers in. The problem is further exaggerated with the amout of cabin baggage the average Spainard brings on board.

        • Callum says:
          3 Nov3 November 10:55

          When I almost missed my Iberia flight, the ticket agent suggested I took my hold luggage (WAY over hand luggage limits) on board with me.

          I thought I was going to have to argue to take it on, but neither security, the gate agents nor the flight attendants batted an eyelid that I was taking it on board! I had a tight connection and the next flight also didn’t even question it.

      • Thomas Howard says:
        3 Nov3 November 09:02

        Cityflyer was probably a poor choice (I’ve never flown with them), I assumed it was similar to Iberia Express/Qantaslink and functioned as a feeder or regional connection airline. At the moment I think they’re blurring the lines between trying to be premium/”indulgence” on long haul routes and frugal on short haul so creating a sub-brand where expectation might be lower on domestic/euro flights would be beneficial. I’m still not sure what they’re trying to do on Euro Traveller, it feels to me like easyJet product for BA pricing – they either need to go all out budget airline or try and find some middle ground like Westjet where you at least get a free cup of McCoffee and some very basic IFE.

        To me, everything about BA is inconsistent, I don’t know if the plane interior is going to be older than I am, brand new, clean or dirty and I can live with that if Im paying £70 for a flight to Europe but if I’m spending £1500+ long haul I want to know what I’m getting.

        • Callum says:
          3 Nov3 November 10:57

          The whole point is that it isn’t necessarily at the old BA premium price. I’ve gone from almost exclusively flying LCCs within Europe to flying BA at least half the time.

        • James says:
          3 Nov3 November 14:12

          Agreed.

        • Thomas Howard says:
          3 Nov3 November 14:50

          It’s a premium on LCC and the only advantage is you avoid the stag/hen do crowd at Stansted/Luton. Well worth the money to me but many people aren’t such snobs 😉

        • JimA says:
          3 Nov3 November 15:26

          Agreed BAs biggest problem is inconsistency the transatlantic A380 is at least 5 grades above the tatty old 747 I flew back on from Chicago last year. Tiny screen, flaky entertainment, no individual controllable air vent, generally grubby and so noisy. Crew were pretty miserable as well – clearly it had got to them.

        • Nick_C says:
          3 Nov3 November 15:33

          I’m sure you are right, but not all 747s are the same (and that is a problem). I flew back from JFK in a 747 Super Hi J in May. Nice little cabin of 16 seats. Recently refurbished to A380 standards (seats/TV). Noisier than an A380 but far enough forward in 14A for it not to be a problem. I really enjoyed the flight.

          I understand they are continuing to refurbish the remaining 747s.

        • Lady London says:
          3 Nov3 November 18:19

          + 1. But the change fees on BA blow the good shorthaul pricing that is often achievable with a bit of planing, out of the water. As the fare cost isn’t low enough to just throw away the ticket, like with Ryanair.

  • TripRep says:
    3 Nov3 November 07:31

    Any rumours/guesses on the routes the new A350 will fly? Leisure routes that aren’t catered for by First already, eg Maldives?

  • TripRep says:
    3 Nov3 November 07:45

    Went searching for A350 BA routes, stumbled on this, Virgin trying not to fall behind, suspect Rob will run it during the week…

    https://simpleflying.com/virgin-atlantics-new-a350-1000s-to-get-brand-new-upper-class-seats/

    • Rob says:
      3 Nov3 November 07:50

      Here’s the thing. I didn’t know this was secret. I’ve known about it for months 🙂 I just assumed that everyone knew there would be a new seat!

      • Leo says:
        3 Nov3 November 08:23

        It was on Business traveller today or yesterday.

        • Rob says:
          3 Nov3 November 08:24

          Yes, I know. But if I’d know it was ‘news’ I would have mentioned it myself 6-8 months ago 🙂

      • Leo says:
        3 Nov3 November 08:33

        I agree I didn’t think it was news either.

      • Paul says:
        3 Nov3 November 15:25

        I thought it was announced when they ordered the A350!

        Apparently is a very good seat, some at BA are cheesed off.

    • Memesweeper says:
      3 Nov3 November 10:01

      Here’s my prediction based on no inside information whatsoever:

      BA will use the Iberia seat.

      Virgin will use the Delta seat.

      • Catalan says:
        3 Nov3 November 10:32

        I fully agree with you on the BA seat being a derivative of the Iberia seat.

        Virgin may well be similar to the Virgin Australia seat which is very well regarded.

        • Nick_C says:
          3 Nov3 November 14:05

          Possibly. But the links between Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Australia are tenuous. Virgin Group owns 20% of the former, 8% of the latter. The major shareholders are completely different.

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