More details about the new British Airways low-cost London Gatwick operation emerge

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• JRC says:

  6 Nov6 November 08:06

  If my maths are right the basic is £7.62 / hour assuming a 40hr week. The £24k capped pay works out at £11.50. If you’re not staying over in some “exotic” location as you would if you worked long haul, then I think they will struggle to find staff. You earn more working in an Amazon warehouse.

  • John says:

    6 Nov6 November 08:26

    It’s not like you can do much on a night stop anyway…

    • Oh! Matron! says:

      6 Nov6 November 08:36

      Having been out with some REDACTED crew in REDACTED, I’d like to challenge what you can do in an evening ;-0

      • John says:

        6 Nov6 November 10:49

        I know. Thanks for causing your airline to have to pay me EC261 compensation when the crew didn’t show up on time

  • marcw says:

    6 Nov6 November 08:28

    Cabin crare only allowed to fly up to 800h a year.

    • ChrisC says:

      6 Nov6 November 11:03

      This is what people aren’t taking into account.

      £15,848 / 800 = £ 19.81per hour

      £ 24,000 / 800 = £ 30.00

      • Annon says:

        6 Nov6 November 11:50

        You’re an idiot- seriously. The 800 block hours is when the aircraft starts moving under its own power. It doesn’t include the time time required to pre flight plan in the office, walk across to the aircraft airport security etc etc then prepare the aircraft before departure. Once on the ground it doesn’t include turnaround time to prep the aircraft for the return leg. I’m sorry, I don’t typically bother with trolls, but your stupid 2 minute iPhone internet research post with no understanding of what the job involves is infuriating.

        • ChrisC says:

          6 Nov6 November 18:25

          Really? I’m no troll. Nor am I an idiot.

          Resorting to insults negates any serious points you might have to make.

        • Paul Pogba says:

          6 Nov6 November 19:15

          800hrs / 48 weeks = 16.7 hrs/week. Even if they spend twice as long at work as they do in the air that’s still only a 33 hour week.

  • TimM says:

    6 Nov6 November 08:41

    For the same, or less money, many people would prefer to work as BA cabin crew than in an Amazon warehouse. Other people are the opposite. It is not all about ponds and pence per hour.

    • Dev says:

      6 Nov6 November 09:16

      I guess this all depends on actual flight schedules and whether crew have “side hustles” … if the schedule works favourably e.g. the monthly hours work out to 2.5 weeks work and 1.5 week rest days, there are opportunities.

      I know plenty of crew (mostly with overseas carriers) who use the job as an enabler for side hustles… ever wondered why some crew travel with 2 big suitcases on a 1 or 2 night journey?

      staff travel can also be used effectively to run an import/export business!

      • David S says:

        6 Nov6 November 09:28

        Especially as a result of Brexit. We do CE now to get stuff abroad and bring some stuff back that you just can’t get in the UK

        • Mikeact says:

          6 Nov6 November 09:42

          Like what ?

      • DC says:

        6 Nov6 November 09:35

        So BA are running a business on jobs that basically mean people have to do two jobs.

        Wow

        this world is doomed

        • ChrisC says:

          6 Nov6 November 11:04

          All sorts of business operate on using lots of part time staff requiring people to work two jobs!

        • Rob says:

          6 Nov6 November 15:38

          Good luck doing that when the hours and even days worked of your main job change weekly.

        • flyforfun says:

          6 Nov6 November 11:29

          I’ve been having arguments with our HR about hybrid working post pandemic and there has been a big softening to this over time, but the thing that surprised me in the last conversation I had they mentioned an acceptance of people having “side hustles”. I found that surprising given that we’re a 9 to 5 business!

          But then I caught up with an old colleague and found that one of the directors that had left actually had a side hustle of running and accountancy practice all the time he was working!!

        • The Savage Squirrel says:

          6 Nov6 November 14:47

          Aware of a number of people earning six figure main salaries who have “side hustles” (or “portfolio careers” if you want to be all posh). Often it’s developing a less demanding 2nd career with a view to semi-retirement and ditching the 1st one at some stage. Sometimes it’s just the fun and the challenge.
          Diversification is as sound in employment as it is in investment – 1 of your 3 roles just laid you off? Not so big a deal as losing your only job is it…?
          Ultimately the market will dictate whether these jobs get filled – but those used to single 9-5 jobs should realise that this is not the only – or even necessarily the best – career path.

  • Lady London says:

    6 Nov6 November 10:41

    Must be fewer hours guaranteed otherwise would be less than minimum wage.

    • ChrisC says:

      6 Nov6 November 11:07

      As above max hours for cabin crew is 800 per year.

      And there are weekly and monthly limits within that total as well.

      There can be some variations in that for example during emergency situations but hours are carefully monitored by both the crew themselves and the airline.

      • Lady London says:

        6 Nov6 November 11:37

        That’s why FR for example, delay short haul flights by switching the incoming aircraft when everyone’s already airside at the departure airport waiting for it. Because the crew on the aircraft that was designated to pick those passengers will go out of hours they have to do that flight as well. Due to late running of an earlier flight. Why you’re so, so much more likely to be delayed on the last flight of the day on a shorthaul airline that uses its aircraft intensively.

        One airline on my main route does the last flight as 3rd and last rotation of the day for the crew. The other always schedules it as 4th rotation. Even though the 2 airlines’ flights leave within 10 minutes of each other, guess which one is routinely delayed just short of tge magic 2 hours when duty of care woukd kick in.

  • 1ATL says:

    6 Nov6 November 11:56

    It’s not even that simple…. somewhere written down in the small print with the CAA is that UK based crew can’t fly more than 900hrs in a rolling 12 month period. So very crudely you can see this job isn’t going to be attracting people who want full time work or the salary it commands. Some people might appreciate that lifestyle while having a minimal monthly salary that by its virtue as being low is also going to be taxed pretty minimally also. I’d expect lots of older applicants when the role goes live externally, people who’ve made their money in other walks of life and who always wanted to try it. But certainly for those looking to make a career out of flying it’s most definitely not a job I’d be looking at.

  • Tariq says:

    6 Nov6 November 11:59

    Entry-level crew roles will attract a very different demographic to warehouse working though…!

• Nick says:

  6 Nov6 November 09:14

  JER is staying at LHR and keeps its nightstop as a result.

  Otherwise the planned routes are largely as you’d expect. Some will be very low frequency, and the schedule will be easy-style, so with lots of 6am departures and 11pm arrivals. I don’t know if they’re planning to match easy turnaround times though… that’s not really something BA has ever been able to achieve before!

  • John says:

    6 Nov6 November 10:50

    I guess it depends on the connection potential

  • 1ATL says:

    6 Nov6 November 12:01

    Agree about the connection factor. Jersey at Gatwick harked back to B-Cal days. The primary focus then was connectivity to London but also to JFK. Later when BA took over Jersey was well timed for JFK and BDA for all that offshore banking traffic. Nowadays with what remains or is soon to be seen at LGW I can’t see BA wanting to maintain a JER route presence there, I’d be wanting it at LHR where it could easily connect with GCM, PLS, BDA, JFK

• Mikeact says:

  6 Nov6 November 09:46

  Sounds a bit like the recent Southampton flights just finished for the season….limited European destinations, but BA were using the LCC fleet at weekends only which really worked out well I understand. An absolute doddle to get to the Canaries we found.

  • Matarredondaaa says:

    6 Nov6 November 10:05

    Southampton was not LCC it was Ba Cityflyer
    To be profitable BA will need to have turn rounds similar to EJ to maximise fleet utilisation.
    Suspect cabin crew salaries be similar to WizzAir, etc
    Think I am correct in saying cabin crew on LCC’s do not get food provided

    • Lee says:

      6 Nov6 November 10:18

      I work for EZY and we do get crew food and some hot and cold drinks provided

      • TimM says:

        6 Nov6 November 11:35

        According to reports, RyanAir does not provide crew food & drinks – they are deductions from their pay. Ryanair flight crew have famously complained that they even have to pay for a bottle of water while flying, their own overnight hotel when getting into position when changing bases etc.. I believe the turnover is quite high.

        • 1ATL says:

          6 Nov6 November 12:06

          Their crew also have to provide their own teabags…. FR won’t even stretch to a staff subsidised cuppa! Free hot water tho…. I assume that’s listed as a staff benefit in their welcome pack!

    • Mikeact says:

      6 Nov6 November 11:35

      Sorry, I meant LCY fleet, definitely not low cost carrier.

  • 1ATL says:

    6 Nov6 November 12:04

    SOU was really popular for BA Cityflyer this summer. So much so they’ve already announced a presence there for next summer with seats already on sale. Canaries won’t be a feature as with all the will in the world the Embraer fleet they use isn’t capable of making it that far… at least not without stopping and preferably not in the Atlantic short of the destination…

    • Dicksbits says:

      6 Nov6 November 15:05

      Amazed to hear. My colleague flew with her family to and from Malaga mid-August from SOU. There were 17 people on the flight both ways !

      • 1ATL says:

        6 Nov6 November 20:40

        My flights were rammed to the rafters both ways in October but that’s only ever going to be 98 passengers on the Cityflyer aircraft. The the clincher for me was the small airport experience at Southampton – ours was the only international flight arriving so the UK Border experience was a dream compared to the horror stories coming out of Heathrow. Also complimentary bar and full sized sandwich served in Economy which is polar opposites to the Speedbird Cafe buy before you fly offering out of Heathrow made it a sweet deal. SOU is a great little airport and well linked for road and rail. I’m already contemplating booking once my annual leave is open for next year.

    • Mikeact says:

      6 Nov6 November 17:14

      Sorry, second apology of the day….the Balearic Islands !

    • Lady London says:

      6 Nov6 November 23:26

      SOU and BRS have now emerged as important for more upmarket leisure travelling – for BA, this would be similar to Gatwick. They would be missing a trick if they don’t provide to that area.

• Pedro says:

  6 Nov6 November 09:56

  Iberia Express Madrid-LGW twice a day restarts 27 March so that ties in with the likely BA start date.

  • marcw says:

    6 Nov6 November 10:03

    What a coincidence! Really, that’s the date when the IATA S’22 season starts.

• Joe says:

  6 Nov6 November 10:10

  Don’t really understand how the night stops have lasted so long. Who wants to get up at 4am to come back from premium leisure? Lgw isn’t my first choice anyhow but I must admit I choose ba at Heathrow often for leisure as flight leaves between 9-10 and not 6-7 (and there they can have the planes out for night stops for business connecting). Glad the competition remains at Lgw – good for the consumer

  • Joe says:

    6 Nov6 November 10:10

    Oh – and likely much less unprofitable than they made out (just a bit of crew and night stop savings?!)

  • John says:

    6 Nov6 November 10:53

    They aren’t all premium though. And you just don’t sleep if your return flight is at 0600…

  • Andrew says:

    6 Nov6 November 12:04

    Travel works in both directions. There’ll be plenty of people wanting to make the most of a long weekend in London by flying as early as possible. From some places waiting for an inbound flight from London would mean not getting to the UK before mid-afternoon. Add in the airport formalities, travelling to the city center, checking into your hotel and you might be lucky to make it in time for dinner.

    • Joe says:

      6 Nov6 November 20:56

      Yes but most ba into Gatwick shorthaul is UK origin I would think. And now the times will likely be the same as ezy (or slightly later given the turnaround efficiency)

• Terry S says:

  6 Nov6 November 10:55

  Wonder if the BA lounge will reopen?

  • ChrisC says:

    6 Nov6 November 11:10

    It will when they move back to South Terminal.

  • Rob says:

    6 Nov6 November 15:39

    Highly likely given we are promised ‘standard BA service’.

• IHGNowSucks says:

  6 Nov6 November 11:07

  How is someone supposed to have a decent life living within a commutable distance of Gatwick on between £16-24k?

  • TimM says:

    6 Nov6 November 11:38

    As Dev suggests above, it may just be a cover for a smuggling business, e.g. toilet rolls or packets of salt and vinegar crisps.

    • John says:

      6 Nov6 November 13:33

      Or cigarettes…my neighbours cleaner pays £60 and I bought them for £18 in Gibraltar last time I went

  • Lady London says:

    6 Nov6 November 11:41

    Heathrow staff have considerably higher costs with not much more. And BA used Covid to finally get rid of legacy staff that had managed to hang onto older contracts that paid a reasonable wage and benefits package

  • the_real_a says:

    6 Nov6 November 14:19

    Same argument for someone who works the tills at Tesco. But for a young person living at home, or someone who`s partner earns considerable more the role is attractive. There are no shortage of applicants.

    • ZF says:

      6 Nov6 November 18:45

      There most certainly is a shortage of applicants, across all of the roles you mentioned. And it’s insane that we demand someone working a hard job to be essentially a dependant not able to live on their own, but ‘living with parents’, ‘living with a partner’ or ‘having a side hustle’. And when inevitably they don’t provide a great service at Club, can we really say something, they’re treated as warm bodies by BA.

      • Lady London says:

        6 Nov6 November 23:38

        We did Brexit to stop this?

        Are we finally going to see long-disrespected appallingly exploitatively low paid jobs disappear un the UK?
        The ones people have to be subsidised by a family member or their partner, to do? (Been there, done that.)

        Have we finally seen a benefit from Brexit?
        There will only be the mattee of inflation to deal with

        • Dev says:

          7 Nov7 November 04:58

          I live in Africa where cabin crew get paid a pittance, but entry requirements means they are graduates, good looking and well spoken in a English. However, they all use it as an enabler … importing goods does not need to be evading duty on cigerettes, etc … the crew in the country I live in focus on cosmetics, nappies and children’s clothes.

          In fact, there’s a whole thriving grey market for personal shoppers to provide for the middle class who want goods that are ludicrously expensive in the shops.

        • Rob says:

          7 Nov7 November 08:57

          It’s not always exploitation per se. Many young Europeans were happy to earn a low wage over here in return for the experience of living in the UK for a couple of years. Most of them were massively over-qualified – most of the senior roles at Pret (the in-house lawyers etc) were actually Euro-born store staff who just happened to be trained lawyers etc and who Pret was happy to take into management.

          No different to au pairs who were happy to work for virtually nothing in return for a free room and food – and indeed is how Anika originally came to the UK.

• Mikeact says:

  6 Nov6 November 11:56

  I think you’ll find that nobody has to work for BA if I remember correctly.

  • Ian says:

    6 Nov6 November 17:37

    Agreed. There is no shortage of people willing to work for these low salaries. If there was, the market would lead to higher rates of pay.

    • Rob says:

      6 Nov6 November 20:19

      Given the shortage of staff across hotels and restaurants I wouldn’t be so sure. FT today says head chef roles in London now command £90k.

      • Ian says:

        7 Nov7 November 08:35

        I meant in the sense that there is no shortage of people willing to work as cabin crew for low salaries…apparently it’s still considered a glamorous career.

        • bafan says:

          7 Nov7 November 21:12

          Really? BA are advertising an awful lot if they’re so besieged by applications.

  • ZF says:

    6 Nov6 November 18:46

    And I hope that nobody does.

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