EXCLUSIVE: No more pro-rata fee refunds for UK American Express cardholders

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• Dace says:

  19 Jun19 June 12:01

  Is there a link to the condition that you can see get a pro-rata refund until 2 Oct?

  • Rob says:

    19 Jun19 June 12:03

    No but there may be once Amex starts notifying people in July.

• s says:

  19 Jun19 June 12:16

  has anyone been able to update who is covered on the BAPP free insurance – need to add another dependent since first getting the card? Amex live chat not helpful at all just keep providing the claims numbers….cheers

  • Harry T says:

    19 Jun19 June 12:35

    Never use amex chat if your query is even remotely complicated or requires cognition. Ring amex.

    • Gordon says:

      19 Jun19 June 12:47

      Same goes for barclaycard, Trust me!

      • Alan says:

        20 Jun20 June 00:38

        Although if looking to file a complaint and get some compo (which Barclaycard are normally quite generous with) then their online chat is a good place to start 😉

• anom says:

  19 Jun19 June 12:19

  Argh, I am at £9k of spend on my BA basic card, and was just about to upgrade to get the voucher… If I upgrade now, get to the 10k target, and then downgrade before October, will I get the pro rata refund?

  • Rob says:

    19 Jun19 June 12:21

    Yes

  • Iranicus says:

    19 Jun19 June 14:37

    Yes, but there has been talk that they will not allow you to downgrade the card.

• tw33ty says:

  19 Jun19 June 12:30

  The one Biggleswade I have with the Amex bonvoy card is this,

  You get a free night after spending £25k on it, the trouble is, it hits your account very quickly after spending 25k, and lasts 12 months from date of earning the night.

  I’m now at 24.6k spend, but my renewal date is end of November, So, I find myself stopping spending on it as to hold of triggering the free night.

  Expiration would be better for the year end I think, or just give the points rather than free night.

  • Harry T says:

    19 Jun19 June 12:34

    I think they should institute a system whereby the certificate is valid for the rest of the card year you earn it in, plus another full year. Rob has suggested this for the BAPP vouchers too.

    Where do you spend the 25k certificate? They’ve become a lot harder to use in the last few years, as points prices in the Bonvoy scheme have generally risen.

    • Rob says:

      19 Jun19 June 12:49

      You can add up to 15k to the certificate which gets you a c£200 room.

      • meta says:

        19 Jun19 June 13:49

        It depends on the property and dynamic pricing. You can get a night in Lucca by adding extra 10k. For example refundale rate in mid-Sept is currently £264 (non-refundable £234). So there are still places where you can get more than £200.

  • Alex G says:

    19 Jun19 June 14:02

    Do you live in Bedfordshire tw33ty? That’s an interesting auto correct!

  • Alan says:

    20 Jun20 June 00:39

    Same issue with VS card, I’m purposely holding off spending on it so I don’t trigger it.

• Harry T says:

  19 Jun19 June 12:33

  I suspect this was inevitable. To be honest, the glory days of churning were long behind us. I don’t blame amex for trying to discourage people from pumping and dumping – it makes sense from a business perspective. I certainly don’t expect them to increase the long term value proposition of their cards, but I do think it would be a smart move to introduce more “milestone bonuses” for spend and some other carrots.

  I think the Platinum card remains poor value for its annual fee, unless you have quite particular shopping and dining habits (don’t let the tail wag the dog), so it will be interesting to see if they introduce more travel focussed benefits such as free FX fees. I personally don’t value the travel insurance because I get it via HSBC premier, and I’m sure plenty of other folks get their insurance bundled with a bank account, or find it inexpensive anyway.

  I would like to see the earnings rate increase on the Marriott Bonvoy card again. But I consider the annual fee a bargain for the 15 elite nights.

  Airport lounge passes on the Gold card are not very useful when you can’t get into a Priority Pass lounge anyway; and anyone who actually travels frequently will have lounge access via an airline. I don’t really care for Deliveroo as it’s often expensive and unhealthy food.

  I guess the BAPP can offer value if you use the 241s and don’t mind paying the large redemption surcharges BAEC is fond of; although you are required to be far more Avios rich these days to utilise them in Club, and it’s not as easy to earn them unless you live in the skies or have a lot of business spend.

  I think this has just turned into my wish list 🙂

  • BuildBackBetter says:

    19 Jun19 June 12:41

    Looking at it from a perspective of what Plat offers thats not available on the market,
    Hilton gold – useful for breakfast, 5th night free, upgrades (sometimes)
    Lounge entry for a family of 4 – most other lounge passes dont include free guests or children. Agreed this is useless in UK now, but as a travel focussed card, its very useful outside UK.
    FHR – guaranteed 4pm checkout (compared to Virtuoso)
    Rest of the benefits are either available from other vendors or not real value unless you spend exactly £100 at HN or £150 at the specific restaurants.

    • JDB says:

      19 Jun19 June 13:10

      The ludicrous retention bonuses tell you the value proposition isn’t really there; if it were Amex wouldn’t need to keep offering bungs of 35k, 50k and now 75k to keep the card; the card should be able to stand on its own two feet after any initial SUB. Now they have got a small number of people hooked on retentions, which would appear to be another unfair practice the regulator will stamp out. As a poster below suggests, if people keep reporting them, they will have to stop sooner rather than later.

      • JDB says:

        19 Jun19 June 13:12

        Reporting their retention successes on the HfP thread that is. Cannot think why that thread helps anyone.

      • Travel Strong says:

        19 Jun19 June 13:30

        @JDB can you elaborate on retention bonuses being unfair on the consumer involved? It appears on the face of it to only be a positive thing? i.e. additional value being given to a party and nothing negative / taken away from any other party. If it is unfair because everyone does not get the same offering, then that would make referral scheme bonuses and promotional sign up bonuses unfair also.

        • JDB says:

          19 Jun19 June 13:42

          Promotional / introductory bonuses (ie one off) are fine and they are published so it’s fully transparent. The problem with retentions is that it is a secret process that effectively provides a fee reduction that isn’t available to all. Amex agents explicitly say, for example, that 35,000 MR is equivalent to a £157 fee reduction. It is unfair (in the FCA/legal sense of the word) that some people get an unpublished fee discount simply because they threaten, genuinely or falsely, to cancel. It will improve slightly, as previously people could take the retention and then cancel fairly immediately. That may still be possible if people ask for retentions in month 11 and then cancel. In summary every cardholder should be charged the exactly the same fee and receive the same benefits and whatever they are should be fully transparent. If Amex genuinely feels the need to give 50k or now 75k MR retentions to avoid cancellation rather than calling that cardholder’s bluff, then there is a big problem with the product. The fact that the BAPP is the only card in the Amex portfolio that has a USP and has by far the lowest retention speaks volumes.

        • JDB says:

          19 Jun19 June 14:10

          @Travel Strong – I didn’t mention referral bonuses, but they too are published and to the extent they can vary slightly between cardholders, that is very much at the margin. It is fairly incredible how much Amex UK (vs other countries) finds it necessary to spend on customer acquisition, particularly when ‘welcoming’ the same people time after time. They seem to have made a rod for their own back; let’s see how sustainable that is.

    • Harry T says:

      19 Jun19 June 20:08

      But if you actually travel frequently, you can get 4pm checkout via hotel status, and lounge access via airline status. The irony of the Amex plat is that’s it is aimed at frequent travellers either higher incomes, but the benefits are things this group often already has… from travelling frequently. Free FX spend would offer genuine value. I agree with JDB that they clearly do not think the card has enough intrinsic value if they are happy to throw a lot of points at people willing to cancel.

  • David says:

    19 Jun19 June 13:19

    Wow reply Harry T you paint a broad brush. Would you happen to know first few numbers of Wednesday’s Euro M?

    • Gordon says:

      19 Jun19 June 14:06

      He could give you the first few numbers of the Euro M, But you would need to sign up for 1 year for a fee of £500k with no pro rata refund!!!!

  • ETM says:

    19 Jun19 June 17:24

    With Gold rewards card there is already priority pass membership offered. What do you mean by they are not useful ?

• rob keane says:

  19 Jun19 June 12:54

  Like most ‘hustles’, companies are either unaware or are happy to let it go under the radar provided it doesn’t move the dial in terms of profitability.

  But once these things get a lot of exposure, then it starts to cost, and eventually it gets addressed. And even more so when it moves from a low key “gaming opportunity”, which is largely unspoken of, to a highly promoted way to get max benefit with minimal outlay. First it was the “rinse and recycle” of taking out a card, cancelling, take out another etc etc. And now the pro-rata refund. So whereas one or two have benefited from exposing these strategies, in the long term such exposure is to the detriment of many more.

• MisterE says:

  19 Jun19 June 14:13

  Can’t blame Amex from what I can see, and this will certainly prompt me to cancel one of the three BAPPs we have in out Household Account. We’ll keep the other two.

  But what about the ‘need’ to have an Amex card when paying for fees/charges when redeeming a Companion Voucher? The terms seem to say you have to use it, but in practice (and well documented here and elsewhere) not required.

  Do we think this might change? If so how and when? Would hate to lose a Companion Voucher expiring in March 25

  • Rob says:

    19 Jun19 June 14:40

    You need AN Amex. You literally have no choice – all other payment options online are greyed out. If you want to use an Amex Gold belonging to your granny you can do that, but it must be an Amex.

    • MisterE says:

      19 Jun19 June 15:04

      I appreciate I need AN Amex (and we’ll still have several) and that’s the current practice. However the question in future is more to do with whether I will need to keep the BAPP until I have redeemed the Companion Voucher, rather than until I have earned it? Might mean I’d need to spend a non-refundable £250 to keep the card alive for a few months until I redeemed the CV.

      This would be a more contentious step by Amex than stopping pro-rata refunds. But I’m curious if folks think its likely.

      • Rob says:

        19 Jun19 June 15:16

        Not sure what your point is. The ONLY reason you’d need to keep the card is if you had to pay for the taxes with it, and you don’t.

        You need to understand how the data protection rules go. BA doesn’t even know who has a BA Amex, unless it is being actively used. Unless they recode ba.com to only accept BA Amex cards as Amex payment then any Amex will continue to be good enough.

        • Alan says:

          20 Jun20 June 00:43

          Here’s hoping they don’t try and do that given how appalling their IT is (see all the reports of the app being useless and I’ve certainly found I can’t checkin with it on more than one occasion).

• Pogonation says:

  19 Jun19 June 14:44

  Makes business sense… Bonuses are to attract long term card users not people spending £3k. I am surprised they didn’t introduce this rule earlier. I’ve had my Gold for 9 years now and get plenty of value using it (where it is accepted) as my every day card.
  People playing the system just cause devaluations and worsening conversion ratios for genuine customers like me.

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