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Forums Payment cards American Express Amex has cancelled all my cards!

  • can2 532 posts

    You also need to look beautiful and under 25 years of age. 😂 Amex are totally deluded. It’s no suprise that their very tiny market share in the UK is dropping off a cliff!

    I knew I was missing something!

    Metty 79 posts

    I am so sorry about what happened to you, I would recommend you to email straight to the CEO after you have your evidence/stance ready.

    Did that previously and they will start the investigation. There is a investigation team in Brighton work for the exec.

    steve.squeri@aexp.com

    Thanks for this advice, Steve has replied to my email and said someone will call me. Which is a start.

    davefl 1,352 posts

    What is gross income one might ask?
    Check it out here https://www.americanexpress.com/en-us/credit-cards/credit-intel/gross-income/?linknav=creditintel-contextual-article
    For individuals, gross income is all the money you earn before taxes and other deductions are subtracted. Your earned income can come in many forms: salary, bonuses, tips, hourly wages, rental income, dividends from stocks and bonds, and savings account interest. In the less traditional but growing “gig” economy, people can earn income from multiple part-time, temporary, or freelance positions. All the monies earned from these jobs would count toward your gross income.
    [/blockquote]

    This is really interesting and basically tells me as far as the financial world is concerned I’m now a pariah with zero provable income until my state pension begins in more than a decade’s time.

    I’ve gone from earning a very good salary, to zero income since Dec. I have no intention of returning to the workforce and my lifestyle will be funded by drawing down my Sipp and taking income from ISAs. None of which is quantifiable income as it will ebb and flow depending what I need to withdraw. However I now have more disposable income than at any time in my life and typical annual outgoings on Ctax/fuel/food/diesel/bills of well under 5 figures.

    I’ve been late on one CC payement in 30+ years (I just missed the payment date by 2 days). Yet my custom is now worthless as far as the financial world is concerned.

    I mentioned a few weeks ago that Barclays have already discovered information that I’m no longer earning despite the fact that the only organisation that knows the employment ended was HMRC due to a P45 being issued in Dec. Wonder how long it’ll be before Amex and others start pulling my cards.

    Froggee 947 posts

    That is good news. (Hopefully)

    Please do report back as long as it doesn’t impact your situation. As a recently retired fellow with many, many credit cards I’m somewhat jittery that my turn will come.

    Misty 256 posts

    That is good news. (Hopefully)

    Please do report back as long as it doesn’t impact your situation. As a recently retired fellow with many, many credit cards I’m somewhat jittery that my turn will come.


    @Froggee
    Is it worth shedding some of the less valuable, least used ones gently over time ?


    @Metty
    hopefully something good will come from what suggested.

    NorthernLass 7,933 posts

    @Froggee, they don’t seem keen if your only income is a pension (even a gold-plated one!), but if you say you’re employed a few hours a week which brings in a few extra quid, that’s fine, apparently. Perhaps you could be Mrs Froggee’s PA?

    I’m currently on an Amex break, I took stock of my cards recently and I literally only have the HH Barclaycard and another minor one with a 0% balance transfer. All my others are SUPPs.


    @Ladyshopper
    , I am in a similar position to you as I was part-time for half my service, but haven’t had this problem. Are you in a position to do even a few hours per week which would push your income to, say the Gold card threshold? After my 2 year break I’d really like another BAPP, so need to find a part time job which will make up the minimum income requirement without affecting out travel plans, which is going to be fun!!

    strickers 702 posts

    The income/wealth conundrum is where Mrs S finds herself after retiring 18 months ago. Her income isn’t far off where it used to be but it’s below the Amex requirements. So whilst she would be able to service an Amex the same was she has in the past they clearly don’t want her business. She’s stuck with a Barclaycard which has a measly £1500 credit limit but at least it’s enough to keep her Avios account ticking over.

    Lady London 2,114 posts

    Disclaimer: I am Gen X, not a Boomer, though my son did used to level that accusation at me when he was about 12 😂

    Ok, I’ll take back what I said.
    The right header for this thread must be “boomers and gen x annoyed at one more thing”.

    I like beautiful people in ads, that’s one thing that makes me want to be that person and want the product. Young is fine, even to older age ranges in ads. But Amex’s models are too young for the Plat.

    My first issue, other than show someone in your ads I can identify with and aspire to be (or someone I might have been), using your product, is the lack of credibility of these models for a seriously expensive financial product (the ads being for the Plat). I don’t identify with someone who looks like they’re still at uni, or not long out of uni, or so very, very young that they may still be receiving financial support from family as they are early in their career. To me that just isn’t credible for this product.

    Nor do I spend my time partying, and I wouldn’t want to be Billy Bunter and he would need something else going for him (not excluded) for me to go out with him.


    @NorthernLass
    is also correct.

    NorthernLass 7,933 posts

    The thing as well with a pension is that you keep nearly all of it. When I was working, a third of my salary went in tax, NI and pension contributions, now my only deduction is less than £100 in income tax! I’m actually better off than when I was working 3 days per week.

    jj 527 posts

    Be careful with that Amex article defining income, as it’s from the USA. Rules and customs differ in the UK. Note that the USA arm of Experian says that you may include your spouse’s income as your own if you have access to it, and capital draw-down of pension investments also counts as income. I’m not sure that either is true in the UK.

    The problem is that I can’t find any guidance from Amex or any other lender about what income should be shown on a credit card application in the UK. It’s no wonder that people get it wrong.

    HampshireHog 120 posts

    While all this discussion of whether or not the OP or most of the rest of us meet Amex’s apperently stringent and weird criteria is interesting we’ve perhaps lost focus of the main point I think. Surely for the account to be closed without notice there must be a decision made that on the basis that there is evidence of misuse of the card account and not just the OP not resembling the cringeworthy characters in their current advertising?

    Froggee 947 posts

    Be careful with that Amex article defining income, as it’s from the USA. Rules and customs differ in the UK. Note that the USA arm of Experian says that you may include your spouse’s income as your own if you have access to it, and capital draw-down of pension investments also counts as income. I’m not sure that either is true in the UK.

    The problem is that I can’t find any guidance from Amex or any other lender about what income should be shown on a credit card application in the UK. It’s no wonder that people get it wrong.

    They generally say on the application forms! I remember being somewhat concerned when applying for Barclays premier account that the income I gave would work its way to Amex via National Hunter and make bad things happen. Both were told the truth but Barclays excluded my biggest source of employment income whereas Amex included it.

    E.g. see below for Amex (I copied it from a prior post):

    Remember – you are asked to declare your “Annual Personal Income”, not your salary by Amex. So if your wife has e.g. £33k salary, £1k interest income and £1k dividend income then her Annual Personal Income would be £35k, not £33k. You declare this total income and then tick the boxes that the income comes from. Do not make up this number as your wife may be asked to evidence it! But if you are fortunate enough to have savings etc then it could push her over the line.

    Sources of Annual Personal Income
    – Salary, including contractual bonus
    – Pension
    – Investment and/or rental income
    – State benefits (only include benefits which contribute to your disposable income. For example, do not include Housing Benefit)
    – Private benefits (includes spousal maintenance/ailment)
    – Student grants and/or bursaries

    BBbetter 717 posts

    While all this discussion of whether or not the OP or most of the rest of us meet Amex’s apperently stringent and weird criteria is interesting we’ve perhaps lost focus of the main point I think. Surely for the account to be closed without notice there must be a decision made that on the basis that there is evidence of misuse of the card account and not just the OP not resembling the cringeworthy characters in their current advertising?

    HH, stop being a party pooper. Don’t get in the way of boomers coming up with a conspiracy.

    NorthernLass 7,933 posts

    No need for conspiracies – they don’t need a reason to close an account, it’s up to them who they do business with. Remember Creation’s “business decision”?!

    Obviously it’s more likely to happen if you do give them a reason.

    JDB 4,516 posts

    While all this discussion of whether or not the OP or most of the rest of us meet Amex’s apperently stringent and weird criteria is interesting we’ve perhaps lost focus of the main point I think. Surely for the account to be closed without notice there must be a decision made that on the basis that there is evidence of misuse of the card account and not just the OP not resembling the cringeworthy characters in their current advertising?

    In the very first post the OP advised they had been given two months notice as statutorily required in the absence of any aggravating features. Amex also stated in the closure notice that the cards would be immediately blocked in line with the terms and conditions which appears to circumvent the notice period so could potentially be deemed unfair but the FOS usually says otherwise. To the extent it were unfair and compensation would be de minimis.

    jj 527 posts

    Only @BBbetter has mentioned conspiracies. Everyone else is being rational.

    Amex would have at least indirect access to CATO (current account turnover) data and would therefore know if income changed. They obviously also understand the profitability of a customer relationship. So there are at least two possible normal business reasons, beside fraud or any kind of misuse, that could drive Amex to remove a customer.

    can2 532 posts

    Only @BBbetter has mentioned conspiracies. Everyone else is being rational.

    Amex would have at least indirect access to CATO (current account turnover) data and would therefore know if income changed. They obviously also understand the profitability of a customer relationship. So there are at least two possible normal business reasons, beside fraud or any kind of misuse, that could drive Amex to remove a customer.

    One thing I don’t understand is how they think this would help Amex’s brand identity.
    We know they read here.
    And I’d sympathise more if they reduced credit etc, but this treatment is wild.
    That’s why I cannot get my head around this argument of “choosing with whom to do business”.

    Especially in this social media age.

    All assuming, of course, OP was not naughty.

    BBbetter 717 posts

    All assuming, of course, OP was not naughty.

    This. Unless Amex voluntarily declares the reason or OP finds out in SAR, everything here is pure speculation.
    There have been many threads like this where posters initially claim they have been innocent all along and then later admit an activity not liked by Amex.

    But then if people want to jump the gun and come up with theories, time to get the popcorn.

    Cranzle 275 posts

    @BBbetter, that’s a very lame, ad hominem attack, and unfair towards the OP.

    probably got to £22k by pre-paying accom (normally against my nature) etc.

    What do you mean by this?

    can2 532 posts

    Oddity is that we all think that even if the OP is completely innocent, Amex could still do it and would be within their rights.
    Contractually, of course; strategically I am not so sure.

    Harrier25 868 posts

    My thoughts are that if the OP is completely innocent (I apologise if you are) and it is all Amex’s fault, then surely many more stories like this would be popping up here, there and everywhere, but they don’t, it’s only a tiny percentage affected.

    Damian 24 posts

    @BBbetter, that’s a very lame, ad hominem attack, and unfair towards the OP.

    I had to google ad hominem 😀

    I probably better not post too many more specific details of my (ex-) accounts but it’s nice that the folks on here have been kind. If was hiding something, I wouldn’t be on here.

    If Amex suggest I register for something or spend to achieve a target, I’d go for it. So the Tier Points for spending £25k was the latest I was chasing, probably got to £22k by pre-paying accom (normally against my nature) etc. Maybe it costs Amex to let me hit £25k and collect 200TPs?

    Did pay Benenden £1k on my Amex for an upcoming minor op (cyst removal), maybe Amex think I’m about to snuff it and owe them a few ££? I truly hope that it’s not age discrimination, but when I canx my Plat around Xmas, they let me go with no retention offer (never had one so wasn’t expecting one); when that call finished, my relatively penniless self employed lad called as he actually couldn’t afford the fee and was begged to stay (can’t remember what the offer was but he kept it, so 6mo free or the like). There’s me trying to pay off the car £20k PCP by Amex (not allowed) as I can afford it and there’s him living on meal deals and McDonalds.

    This appears to me to be the problem. You have suddenly adjusted your normal spending pattern to chase the tier point bonus. You got to £22k pre paying hotels which you don’t normally do! Were you then going to cancel these bookings? All to often on the forums we read about people having their card closed for ‘no reasons,’ then gradually more information slips out such as manufactured spend.

    Metty 79 posts

    All assuming, of course, OP was not naughty.

    This. Unless Amex voluntarily declares the reason or OP finds out in SAR, everything here is pure speculation.
    There have been many threads like this where posters initially claim they have been innocent all along and then later admit an activity not liked by Amex.

    Sigh…it was going well. The point is that I don’t, I really don’t know what I’ve done to upset them. Yes of course other OPs say they’re innocent but then the OPs find out via Amex/posters on here etc what they have done and then they admit to that something. That ‘something’ may be of interest to others, which is the whole point of the forum, isn’t it? If I ever find out, I’ll be labelled by you in the same way, as I’ll admit to it, if/when I find out what ‘it’ is.

    Tbh the implication that I know what I’ve done makes me more cross than what Amex did in cancelling the accounts; why on earth would I post on here if that were the case? Not for sympathy, I can live without Amex and it’s not like you’ve been told you have cancer. I am telling the story in order to share with others and try to find out from others what I’ve done wrong, whether it’s being too old, retired, but presumably having done something with my account.

    Meanwhile, CIFAS report is back already and nothing on me there. Regarding kids and wife’s primary cards that are blocked as I was a supp; none of them have had any notification from Amex of this. At least Amex emailed me and told me to tell my supps.

    can2 532 posts

    OP, I think people are talking out of experience here. “Statistically” that is what happened the most often: people either didn’t know they were naughty or just didn’t mention their naughtiness.

    One thing people may forget is that what Amex think is naughty has changed over the years. Who knows what they are thinking now, and the Sherlock within all of us is trying to discover that. Blaming the OP is the easiest solution, but my Sherlock is simply more curious than that.

    Danny 11 posts

    I read it up thread that the OP retired ten years ago and didn’t let them know? It could be that Amex has found out the changes of circumstances, including income etc. from other sources e.g. credit reports when applying for other credit and declared incomes.

    So when OP applying for new credit eg switch from TSB to NatWest; the info provided may have triggered a review. I think financial companies need to confirm with customers at regular intervals KYI process. I’m sure Amex ask people to do this via their app or website that their circumstances haven’t changed etc. I have been asked by Amex and MBNA very recently.

    While there is no obligation to advise them of the changes immediately, but when asked need to do so. The fact that that the OP hasn’t told Amex of any change of financial circumstance e.g. retirement or paying off mortgage, nor do they recall them ever asking since last application for an Amex.

    So when did they apply for the last Amex, over 10 years ago, before retiring?

    It could be the case that there is a mismatch of info held by Amex and various other companies.

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