Creation Financial Services bashing

[jj]

JDB wrote:

Aston100 wrote:

The FOS is another toothless institution.

The FOS appears to have done a great job for people here; what are you saying that in any way suggests they have been toothless?

I largely agree with this. The FOS has taken an unacceptable time to resolve this issue, but it got there in the end. Unlike @JDB, though, I think it has reached an appropriate decision. But there is nothing to be gained by reopening that debate.

Importantly, this has also set a precedent for other firms that close accounts in a way that avoids obligations to customers.

[Lady London]

JDB wrote:

eskimoboy wrote:

@JDB where are you?! Should I accept this or not?

I’m in Argentina so have just skimmed this but unless there is some trick in the ‘eligible’ bit it’s the most ludicrously generous offer and those suggesting negotiating for all sorts of additional stuff need to book an appointment with a neurologist asap. Of course the robbers, so praised here, have been rewarded and those that had their cards cancelled hace suffered but that’s life.

Hi @JDB, No it’s not generous it just indicates that Creation’s been told to honour the points and free nights cardholders were entitled to and to refund card fees pro rata. Just what people were entitled to, that Creation did not provide. So no generosity at all.

We just need Creation now to be specific. ie to each individual cardholder, to prove the correct number of points, free nights and money will come back by statimg it in an offer. Then it becomes an actual offer that can be considered and, hopefully, accepted.

The principlea the FOS was telling Creation to operate tp will include putting the cardholder back into the position they would have been in if Creation had done things correctly. As @jj stated the FOS would also be likely to add an amount for distress and inconvenience which notably, Creation has not spontaneously offered so there is no generosity there.

Not everyone will receive an offer and I join with you in hoping the miscreants (amongst the customers) don’t. But let’s support the majority of normal cardholders here by suggesting they insist on the details of a proper settlement in the deiail of all the financial terms and financial reasonableness.

[Lady London]

Hi @JDB, No it’s not generous it just indicates that Creation’s been told to honour the points and free nights cardholders were entitled to and to refund card fees pro rata. Just what people were entitled to, that Creation did not provide. So no generosity at all.

We just need Creation now to be specific. ie to each individual cardholder, to prove the correct number of points, free nights and money will come back by stating it in an offer. Then it becomes an actual offer that can be considered and, hopefully, accepted.

The principles the FOS was telling Creation to operate to will include putting the cardholder back into the position they would have been in if Creation had done things correctly. As @jj stated the FOS would also be likely to add an amount for distress and inconvenience which notably, Creation has not spontaneously offered so there is no generosity there.

Not everyone will receive an offer and I join with you in hoping the miscreants (amongst the customers) don’t. But let’s support the majority of normal cardholders here by suggesting they insist on the details of a proper settlement in the deiail of all the financial terms and financial reasonableness, on principles well known to the financial industry, before accepting.

[JDB]

@jj I didn’t suggest an inappropriate decision hsd been reached. It is certainly a pragmatic one and unfortunately it was always likely to be too difficult to sort out the small number of abusers from the maybe 1500 people caught up in their wake.

I think you are wise to call it a day rather than fight for some nominal inconvenience payment.

Some of the negative assertions made about the FOS are incredibly ignorant and misplaced. They have been slow but they ultimately obliged the organisation to pay up, so they have carried out their role properly.

[Lula]

@JDB hope you’re enjoying Argentina.

What do you mean when you say the offer is generous?

In my case, I hadn’t breached any terms or amassed millions of points. I had spent 10k. But my card was closed before my anniversary night and my points withheld along with my free night certificate.

The offer as described is unclear as to whether I’ll receive the free night because the card was closed before my anniversary date.

I see nothing generous in the unclear offer. Especially as the points should have been awarded 18 months ago and Creation failed to deal appropriately with my complaint to them.

The actions of others in this are relevant to me only in that they precipitated the mass closure. They have no bearing on the settlement that Creation should reach in my case. So I see no generosity whatsoever in the offer.

Happy to change my mind if you can show me how they have been generous, however.

[Froggee]

What @Lula said.

I wonder what Jesus @JDB would do.

I’m just in it for the kicks and the free night as I cancelled my card after the anniversary but before the next year’s fee was paid. No points outstanding but one free night very much earned (on proper spend – the Curving was just icing on the cake).

So I trust Creation 0%. The offer is to “grant Anniversary Night Vouchers for eligible customers”.

They have already made it clear through their actions that they believe none of us are eligible customers so how on earth can I be expected to accept this without a personalised offer saying I’m due my free night?

It’s asinine.

[rams]

I again raised that how can I accept something when I don’t know what it is, their response:

The settlement you’d receive upon acceptance of the offer made by Creation will be individual to you in line with the points and vouchers you would have been eligible to receive.

If you have any concerns after this settlement is issued that an error has been made you would then contact Creation to raise these concerns, Should Creation fail to address these concerns then you can get back in touch with us.

[Froggee]

This is starting to do my nut in. Creation haven’t made an offer. They’ve made a general statement. Whereas what the FOS say happens is this:

“Telling you what we think
When we’ve reviewed everything you and the business have told us, we’ll let you know whether we think the business treated you fairly or not. We’ll always explain the reasons behind our initial assessment. If we think the business treated you unfairly, we’ll say what they need to do to put things right. ”

[Boltonsam]

Lot of interesting discussion and may have been answered already, but I really can’t see.

I have not complained but am entitled to the same loss of points and free night as everyone else. Should I now put a complaint or open a discussion in writing to Creation/ threaten to go to FOS/ or just await for any settlement to be unilaterally applied to all of the relevant customers?

Thanks

[Crafty]

Replied and made the following points:

– Pleased to see progress

– Can only accept an actual offer

– Here’s what my original request was when I made my first complaint

– Will accept if they confirm they’re giving me what I asked for – by their own deadline of 31 March

– If it drags on any longer then my offer is withdrawn and I’ll be asking them to make an incremental money offer

[Crafty]

Separately, is it usual for FOS officers to either operate under a professional pseudonym, or scrub the internet of all traces of themselves? I cannot find my (supposed) investigator online anywhere, which feels odd to say the least.

[Harrier25]

Boltonsam wrote:

Lot of interesting discussion and may have been answered already, but I really can’t see.

I have not complained but am entitled to the same loss of points and free night as everyone else. Should I now put a complaint or open a discussion in writing to Creation/ threaten to go to FOS/ or just await for any settlement to be unilaterally applied to all of the relevant customers?

Thanks

I held back too, but now this ruling has been made I’ve just emailed Creation informing them that I’m aware of the agreement reached with FOS and when can I expect the overdue settlement of points and Anniversary Night voucher? I emailed customercare@creation.co.uk

[Jamjaw]

Crafty wrote:

Separately, is it usual for FOS officers to either operate under a professional pseudonym, or scrub the internet of all traces of themselves? I cannot find my (supposed) investigator online anywhere, which feels odd to say the least.

My email is from someone who does have a profile on linkedin – there must be a number of officers involved.

Like others, I have said I will accept assuming I receive what I am due as claimed in my original complaint (to creation) in October 2021, however I can’t accept a conceptual offer as settlement.

[toddy]

Crafty wrote:

Separately, is it usual for FOS officers to either operate under a professional pseudonym, or scrub the internet of all traces of themselves? I cannot find my (supposed) investigator online anywhere, which feels odd to say the least.

It’s an entry level job, with thousands of adjudicators, with high levels of turnover.

[dougzz99]

I don’t have any understanding of the role of the FOS. But isn’t the underlying problem here that needs addressing Curve? They facilitated this.
I’m amazed card providers haven’t shut them down the way Amex did. Wonder how their case against Amex is going 😏

[Anna]

You can’t really blame Curve, nobody was forced to use it. And it wasn’t just Curve, there were other providers involved, including Creation itself!
It’s been said many times that Creation could have just shut Curve transactions down, but they chose not to. And some underlying cards now charge fees, even for fronted usage. I’m not sure how long it can on, really.

[davefl]

Anna wrote:

You can’t really blame Curve, nobody was forced to use it. And it wasn’t just Curve, there were other providers involved, including Creation itself!
It’s been said many times that Creation could have just shut Curve transactions down, but they chose not to. And some underlying cards now charge fees, even for fronted usage. I’m not sure how long it can on, really.

I didn’t use curve with my IHG card, just did everyday transactions, a few hundred quid a month including booking IHG hotels. But they still cancelled mine and they owe me 52 points for the final month.

I’ve not seen one shred of evidence anywhere that it’s all to do with curve, just assumption and hearsay.

[Anna]

I only used Curve for the £200 pm cash withdrawals and I don’t think anyone got closed down for that. It’s immaterial now, of course, but there must be a uniting factor somewhere!

[Rui N.]

dougzz99 wrote:

I don’t have any understanding of the role of the FOS. But isn’t the underlying problem here that needs addressing Curve? They facilitated this.
I’m amazed card providers haven’t shut them down the way Amex did. Wonder how their case against Amex is going 😏

Curve is irrelevant. This is about the way Creation treated its clients.

[dougzz99]

Rui N. wrote:

Curve is irrelevant. This is about the way Creation treated its clients.

Curve facilitated the behaviour, Creation failed to close the door, but without Curve the scale of it would have been minor.

[Rui N.]

Still not relevant for how customers were treated by Creation.

[BA-Flyer]

rams wrote:

I again raised that how can I accept something when I don’t know what it is, their response:

The settlement you’d receive upon acceptance of the offer made by Creation will be individual to you in line with the points and vouchers you would have been eligible to receive.
If you have any concerns after this settlement is issued that an error has been made you would then contact Creation to raise these concerns, Should Creation fail to address these concerns then you can get back in touch with us.

And wait another 1.5 years for the FOS to investigate? No thanks!

I was earning around 6,000 points a month for several months before account closure. (No MS involved). As soon as it became clear Creation were not transferring points, I stopped using my card. No doubt Creation would argue that as I did not use the card, no points are due under this offer. But I would have earned those points in the final month if Creation acted fairly.

Creation will probably calculate a pro-rata annual fee refund from the point they actually closed the account. I would argue that the card became worthless to me as soon as it became clear Creation were not planning to honour points and vouchers.

I asked FOS to consider both these points when I complained. This offer fails to address either.

[Anna]

FOS seem to be making more work for themselves here given that due to Creation’s conduct and the subsequent 12 month wait for a response to an official complaint, few people, as pointed out above, are going to willingly go back to square one with no guarantee that Creation will find them eligible for anything!

[teddyboy]

Froggee wrote:

This is starting to do my nut in. Creation haven’t made an offer. They’ve made a general statement. Whereas what the FOS say happens is this:

“Telling you what we think
When we’ve reviewed everything you and the business have told us, we’ll let you know whether we think the business treated you fairly or not. We’ll always explain the reasons behind our initial assessment. If we think the business treated you unfairly, we’ll say what they need to do to put things right. ”

FOS haven’t completed their investigation, so it hasn’t reached the point of FOS making an ‘initial assessment’. This is a proposal from Creation (in vague terms, but setting out the basis on which Creation would be willing to resolve individual complaints) presumably intended to avoid FOS reaching a determination. The fact that Creation has reached this point suggests that they have a good idea of the conclusion FOS will reach!

The other point to note is that, if the matter is resolved by FOS assessment, that assessment will be in financial terms only. FOS will need to put a cash value on the points and the free night, as FOS can’t compel Creation to award you points/nights.

[Harrier25]

teddyboy wrote:

FOS will need to put a cash value on the points and the free night

This is not correct. It’s only the FSCS that need to put and payout a cash value on everything.