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  • NorthernLass

    I emailed the FOS back and asked if it was possible to confirm exactly what Creation are offering in terms of points and free night certificates (i.e. does it tally with my claim) and got this response:

    “Unfortunately, we don’t have details of the individual offers which are being made to each consumer. Creation have made the offer they have “in principle” and the only additional information I can offer is that any calculation of points etc will be carried out in line with the contractual terms.
    If you accept the offer as it stands, following Creation’s calculation and specific offer to you, if you think they’ve made an error, we can look into that for you and let you know if they have made a mistake and what needs to be done to correct it.
    If you don’t accept the offer as it stands, your complaint will be returned to a pool of similar cases and reviewed by an investigator. Given the age of your case, it should be on desk fairly quickly – although I can’t give a specific timescale.”

    I’ve no previous experience with the FOS but I would have thought that in financial matters and, specifics are fairly important!

    Lady London

    And the sheer brass neck of Creation to refuse to budge, not communicate or deal with so many complaints for nearly 18 months as it stands… then to send a nonindividualised unclear statement that they’d like to make an offer…without actually making an offer…

    All, only because it’s clear the FOS has told Creation their actions towards their cardholders were incorrect.

    Creation is offering nothing for the loss of time value of benefits that were due to cardholders close to 1 and a half years ago. In a finance product this is unacceptable. As well as also offering a separate nothing for the stress, work and inconvenience they’ve caused to cardholders by their incorrect actions.

    I just can’t get over Creation making this offer only, only because of FOS involvement over a long period. And yet they have the brass neck to try to cheap out by this half-hearted not fully mature so-called offer, but offering absolutely nothing for the consequences to cardholders of Creation’s errors all that time ago.

    NorthernLass

    I told the FOS I can’t accept an offer when I don’t even know what IS being offered and they replied that this constitutes non-acceptance and that my case will be allocated to an investigator “shortly” (I thought this was what they had actually been doing for the past 12 months, but anyway).
    I think we’re going to hedge here, I will refuse and P2 will accept and we’ll see what transpires from Creation. We’re not talking about huge amounts of value here but at the end of the day I firmly believe that Creation were contractually obliged to provide benefits during the notice period following the closure notifications and clearly the FOS agrees to some extent – though to what extent exactly is difficult to gauge due to all the vagueness!

    Jon9

    I told the FOS I can’t accept an offer when I don’t even know what IS being offered and they replied that this constitutes non-acceptance and that my case will be allocated to an investigator “shortly” (I thought this was what they had actually been doing for the past 12 months, but anyway).
    I think we’re going to hedge here, I will refuse and P2 will accept and we’ll see what transpires from Creation. We’re not talking about huge amounts of value here but at the end of the day I firmly believe that Creation were contractually obliged to provide benefits during the notice period following the closure notifications and clearly the FOS agrees to some extent – though to what extent exactly is difficult to gauge due to all the vagueness!

    Are you expecting any more from an FOS investigation than was in the generic offer email? I didn’t think the FOS would assign any value to time taken dealing with those or as punishment to Creation.

    As a data point, I’ve accepted their offer and am expecting some residual points and a FNC based on my year end being October.

    The text of my FOS email indicates a 4 week timeframe for resolution.

    “Your complaint about Creation Financial Services Limited

    Following our discussions with Creation we’ve received enough information to start investigating your complaint.

    Thank you for letting me know you accept the offer made by Creation Financial Services Limited.

    I’ve asked Creation Financial Services Limited to settle the complaint directly – so I won’t do anything more unless I hear from you. This should be completed within the next four weeks.

    But if you don’t hear from Creation Financial Services Limited within the next four weeks – or there are any problems – please let me know.”

    NorthernLass

    I’m expecting what I asked for originally, which is similar to what you have, but the generic email gives no guarantee of that whatsoever. Creation may decide that you are not, in fact, eligible for your FNC for whatever reason and continue to play hardball to try and wear more people down (as they have done in the court cases which have been reported here). I’m slightly bemused that the FOS has come back and said they don’t actually know what Creation are offering and don’t want my case to be closed until I have a much better idea of what this might be.

    I’m looking forward to reading people’s updates though, and I hope you get your points and FNC, @Jon9 without any further issues!

    JDB

    If you are happy to accept the offer in principle, you can just accept conditionally, i.e. specifying the pounds, points and FNC you are expecting to receive and asking the FOS to put your case on hold, undertaking to confirm to the FOS if/when Creation settles and if not to reopen. The only upside of not accepting would appear to be some sort of inconvenience but these are usually quite small. I know how angry people here are about Creation, but there are far, far worse cases at the FOS and they still get fairly nominal sums.

    NorthernLass

    I’m not angry, I just don’t trust Creation not to come up with yet another reason for trying to wriggle out of their obligations. I realise a few thousand points and a couple of FNCs are a luxury I could live without but I feel that financial institutions should adhere to the rules that they expect their customers to.

    There are other issues I’d like clarifying as well – such as can Creation even transfer points and FNCs to accounts they no longer have a link to, having closed the card accounts associated with each IHG member? How is this going to work; will they have to come up with a new mechanism for it? How will IHG deal with it at their end – I doubt they have any idea about these cases and the IT required may not even be in place? Who are people supposed to contact if the promised points and FNCs fail to materialise, given the (presumably still) woeful state of Creation’s CS?

    Answers on a postcard … !

    Grant

    There are other issues I’d like clarifying as well – such as can Creation even transfer points and FNCs to accounts they no longer have a link to, having closed the card accounts associated with each IHG member? How is this going to work; will they have to come up with a new mechanism for it? How will IHG deal with it at their end – I doubt they have any idea about these cases and the IT required may not even be in place? Who are people supposed to contact if the promised points and FNCs fail to materialise, given the (presumably still) woeful state of Creation’s CS?

    Answers on a postcard … !

    I would not be surprised to find that all Creation did when this kicked off is close off the use of the cards, leaving everything else in place as it was. I can still login to my old account, view statements, see my points balance, etc. It is possible that the links to IHG Rewards accounts are still there in the background.

    jj

    @JDB, yesterday I told the FOS that I accepted conditionally in exactly the way you said. I was told that Creation’s offer was in principle only, the FOS was simply passing it on to complainants, and and that it could not be tailored to individuals. I have therefore been recorded as having rejected the offer.

    I will go back tomorrow and see if it is possible for sense to prevail. If I get the voucher and my missing points, I’ll accept…how hard can this be?

    Harrier25

    I emailed Creation on Friday evening reiterating what they have agreed with FOS. I then laid out what I’m owed, and finally asked, when can I expect my outstanding points to be credited and the outstanding voucher issued? I’ll let you all know if I receive a reply.

    JDB

    @JDB, yesterday I told the FOS that I accepted conditionally in exactly the way you said. I was told that Creation’s offer was in principle only, the FOS was simply passing it on to complainants, and and that it could not be tailored to individuals. I have therefore been recorded as having rejected the offer.

    I will go back tomorrow and see if it is possible for sense to prevail. If I get the voucher and my missing points, I’ll accept…how hard can this be?

    It seems quite bizarre for the FOS to record clarification of the offer in your acceptance as a rejection. On that basis, they may not get many acceptances, so it could grind on for a long time. Obviously, if the FOS says this is only an offer in principle, any acceptance should also be taken as one in principle.

    There shouldn’t be any dispute about the points or the pro-rata fee refund although for the latter some are seemingly trying to claim from a date they deemed the card useless which seems a bit of a fool’s errand as if that was what they felt, they could have closed the card at that time. The potential problem obviously lies with the free night voucher and there are many permutations from those who earned it with their anniversary on the cusp of the closures to those who neither reached their anniversary nor spend threshold but claim they would have had their account not be closed which is more speculative. Some whose anniversaries fell early in the closure period reported dashing from £0 to £10k spend prior to closure, but a long way from the next anniversary. It isn’t clear that the FOS would necessarily reach a different conclusion to Creation in the more extreme cases.

    JDB

    I emailed Creation on Friday evening reiterating what they have agreed with FOS. I then laid out what I’m owed, and finally asked, when can I expect my outstanding points to be credited and the outstanding voucher issued? I’ll let you all know if I receive a reply.

    Creation hasn’t agreed anything with the FOS which is merely acting as a conduit to complainants for an “offer in principle”.

    eskimoboy

    If you are happy to accept the offer in principle, you can just accept conditionally, i.e. specifying the pounds, points and FNC you are expecting to receive and asking the FOS to put your case on hold, undertaking to confirm to the FOS if/when Creation settles and if not to reopen. The only upside of not accepting would appear to be some sort of inconvenience but these are usually quite small. I know how angry people here are about Creation, but there are far, far worse cases at the FOS and they still get fairly nominal sums.

    Thanks @JDB. That’s what I’ve done. I know how many points I’m owed (only a couple of thousand), worked out the pro rate card fee and I know I’m owed the free night. I’m not going to fight for anything else, just hope Creation don’t pull any funny games!

    I have been told by the FOS I should hear from Creation and to contact them if I haven’t heard within four weeks so hopefully it’s coming to an end.

    slidey

    If the offer is accepted, does that automatically close the case or does it remain open until Creation have fulfilled their actions?

    If the offer is rejected, what happens then?

    My FOS request was to get back what shouldve been provided at the point the card was closed so Im not bothered about getting additional compensation, but given how Creation has acted so far and the ‘eligible’ caveat, I dont trust them to not try to get out of offering everything by claiming it wasnt eligible.

    NorthernLass

    That is exactly my concern. The response I had was that if we aren’t happy with what we receive from Creation, we have to contact Creation in the first instance (but no indication of who, which department, etc) and if we still aren’t happy, go back to the FOS. Which sounds like a recipe for dragging the whole thing out for another 12 months IMO!

    JDB

    That is exactly my concern. The response I had was that if we aren’t happy with what we receive from Creation, we have to contact Creation in the first instance (but no indication of who, which department, etc) and if we still aren’t happy, go back to the FOS. Which sounds like a recipe for dragging the whole thing out for another 12 months IMO!

    You may be overthinking this! While I appreciate you may not trust Creation, this offer is being made by them via a statutory body following extensive discussions. To the extent that upon acceptance Creation makes you an offer you consider is incorrect, it should be apparent from that offer who to contact and the emails from the FOS copied here imply that your case will be reopened if there is a problem rather than having to start again.

    All this is now happening in the open with the FOS watching. The only likely issue is with the voucher and views on that may potentially not differ between Creation and the FOS. If you decide to continue with the FOS route, that too will likely take quite a while, particularly if either of you reject the preliminary decision. Without taking any view re the offer, if you are OK with it in principle, I don’t see what there is to lose by accepting, also in principle, to speed things up.

    BA-Flyer

    There shouldn’t be any dispute about the points or the pro-rata fee refund although for the latter some are seemingly trying to claim from a date they deemed the card useless which seems a bit of a fool’s errand as if that was what they felt, they could have closed the card at that time.

    Creation confirmed to me in early October that no points or vouchers would be issued. Why shouldn’t I expect a refund from the moment the card no longer served its purpose? You say I could have just closed the card at that time. What would that achieve? Creation wouldn’t have offered a partial refund back then, and closing the card myself could have been seen as acceptance of their actions.

    NorthernLass

    @JDB you are probably right about overthinking, let’s hope so! Hopefully the results will start trickling through here in the next few weeks.


    @BA-Flyer
    , I got the full £99 refunded shortly after the card was closed in December – card anniversary was October. I left the credit lying on the account because a) I didn’t want Creation trying to argue that accepting meant I was willingly foregoing the FNC and b) laziness! So it’ll be interesting to see whether that gets mentioned in any response from Creation.

    Lula

    Perhaps I’m being unfairly suspicious of this whole process, but given that this isn’t an actual offer, that there’s still significant ambiguity about the free night certificate eligibility, and given that the FOS admits no investigation has taken place, I think it’s a bit much to take silence as consent to the offer in principle. I can understand doing that after an investigation, or where the FOS has satisfied itself that the offer is reasonable (in which case they would at least know what the offer was), but not in this situation.

    Lady London

    Yes and the FOS, by leaving it so generic, seems to be trying to treat individually submitted complaints as a class action. Presumably the FOS is hoping to up their own dismal clearance rate.

    Complaints are individual and the level of each benefit that should have been awarded is different. If you trust Creation, perhaps you’d want to accept ‘in principle’ as @JDB suggests.

    On the other hand if you have evidence that Creation’s delay has caused you a high level of extra cost (such as the various impacts of Creation’s refusal to provide free nights or even points when due) , you’d remind Creation what they owe you with evidence. As your case is individual.

    Plus Creation still hasn’t learned their lesson and isn’t really regretful, as they’ve offered nothing as a general apology for the trouble they’ve put people to. And after 18 months (cos it will be at least that) Creation are offering nothing just for the time value lost due to not having had these benefits paid out all that time ago.

    So why should Creation, even if they can get that right, get away with just paying what they should have paid anyway all that time and trouble ago?

    Colin MacKinnon

    Creation response for a detailed statement of what points they owe me and confirmation of the free night.

    What clowns! And the FOS expect me to agree to a “full and final” settlement with no details of what that settlement is!

    “Thanks for your email dated 19/03/2023 regarding your IHG credit card.

    We are currently liaising with the Financial Ombudsman Service regarding remediation of your complaint. Rest assured we do not require you to make contact with us in order for this to move this forward; your case is being reviewed in line with actions agreed with the Ombudsman.
    We will be in touch with you in due course, your continued patience is appreciated.

    Kind Regards

    Joshua Adkins
    Customer Resolution Officer
    Creation Consumer Finance

    JDB

    Creation response for a detailed statement of what points they owe me and confirmation of the free night.

    What clowns! And the FOS expect me to agree to a “full and final” settlement with no details of what that settlement is!

    “Thanks for your email dated 19/03/2023 regarding your IHG credit card.

    We are currently liaising with the Financial Ombudsman Service regarding remediation of your complaint. Rest assured we do not require you to make contact with us in order for this to move this forward; your case is being reviewed in line with actions agreed with the Ombudsman.
    We will be in touch with you in due course, your continued patience is appreciated.

    Kind Regards

    Joshua Adkins
    Customer Resolution Officer
    Creation Consumer Finance

    You are trying to bypass (the polite version of queue barging) the agreed system by going to Creation directly while you have a case open at the FOS. I don’t believe the FOS has asked you to agree any full and final settlement – quite the opposite, they have stated Creation’s offer to be ‘in principle’ and once the FOS conveys acceptances to them after the closing date you will hear from Creation and if you don’t like the answer revisit the matter with your FOS interlocutor. As above, there should be no argument about points or the pro-rata refund (a strange offer) but the voucher eligibility may vary by person unless they are just giving them to everyone. If not, whether the FOS will take a different view on eligibility to Creation is questionable/the question.

    Froggee

    This really is a nonsense.

    Having attempted an “in principle” acceptance and been rebuffed by the FOS, I’ve realised how unreasonable this is.

    Creation are offering eligible former customers their voucher after 15 months. But you have to accept their hypothetical “in principle” offer to find out if they consider you to be eligible.

    If Creation were acting in good faith then, as a starting point, they would have already transferred vouchers to those eligible customers. [ @JDB please insert reason here why they, of course, could not do this]

    After suitable reflection, I’ve decided to kick the can down the road and have chosen to continue with my complaint. Should Creation wish to make a less hypothetical and more individual offer to me I’d be open to accept it but as Colin has shown, the ball is very much in their court.

    Who knows. By the time it is awarded maybe my kids will have left home and it might even be useful.

    Colin MacKinnon

    @JDB

    Which part of this have I failed to understand?

    I would be grateful if you could let us know whether you accept the offer from Creation in full and final settlement of your complaint by 31 March 2023.

    BA-Flyer

    I had the exact same reply, also from Joshua. Nothing to do with queue barging as @JDB arrogantly suggests. I’m trying to furnish myself with all the facts (such as if I am considered eligible or not), before agreeing to anything.
    My email from FOS also clearly uses the words “full and final settlement”. It’s remarkable the extent @JDB is going to in order to defend Creation. A bit like those MPs who still swear blind that Boris is innocent.

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