Creation Financial Services bashing

[JDB]

Colin MacKinnon wrote:

@JDB

Which part of this have I failed to understand?

I would be grateful if you could let us know whether you accept the offer from Creation in full and final settlement of your complaint by 31 March 2023.

The FOS has stated that it’s an offer ‘in principle’ according to those who have asked, so cannot be in full and final settlement. There is, as yet, no agreement and no offer capable of acceptance, and equally the FOS states that in the absence of any communication they will take that as an acceptance and they cannot possibly opt people into a full and final settlement without their consent.

[JDB]

BA-Flyer wrote:

I had the exact same reply, also from Joshua. Nothing to do with queue barging as @JDB arrogantly suggests. I’m trying to furnish myself with all the facts (such as if I am considered eligible or not), before agreeing to anything.
My email from FOS also clearly uses the words “full and final settlement”. It’s remarkable the extent @JDB is going to in order to defend Creation. A bit like those MPs who still swear blind that Boris is innocent.

I have zero interest in protecting Creation, but I can’t believe people are making quite such a meal of something so simple.

[JDB]

@Froggee – I think the answer re why they haven’t awarded vouchers to eligible people is that they want and need to settle pounds, points and vouchers all at once. The voucher is of course also the contentious part which the FOS is likely to have to determine. As people are seeking strict application of the terms, that may not necessarily go in their favour unless Creation decides to capitulate completely.

[Rui N.]

I wonder what happens if someone withdrew their case from the FOS after that shameful email back in the fall where they basically told people that they would lose because Creation has the right to close any accounts? Hope no one did that, but if they did hope FOS got back to them now.

[JDB]

JDB wrote:

Colin MacKinnon wrote:

@JDB

Which part of this have I failed to understand?

I would be grateful if you could let us know whether you accept the offer from Creation in full and final settlement of your complaint by 31 March 2023.

The FOS has stated that it’s an offer ‘in principle’ according to those who have asked, so cannot be in full and final settlement. There is, as yet, no agreement and no offer capable of acceptance, and equally the FOS states that in the absence of any communication they will take that as an acceptance and they cannot possibly opt people into a full and final settlement without their consent.

@Colin MacKinnon – I should have added that in the emails copied above by others, the FOS stated:-

“Creation will issue vouchers and award points in line with the account terms. If there are any discrepancies regarding this once you receive the settlement, you need to contact Creation in the first instance and contact us if Creation don’t resolve the issue.
Please confirm if you’re happy to accept on this basis.”

which again suggests the offer isn’t full & final notwithstanding the conflicting email. Essentially both tracks – accepting and reopening with FOS if you don’t like the answer or rejecting such that FOS makes decision should lead to exactly the same place as both are being supervised by the FOS. The only difference FOS decision might include an ‘inconvenience’ payment which is usually a fairly nominal sum, but might be slower by the time you get a preliminary decision which might then be challenged by one party.

It would appear likely that the FOS and Creation will have discussed the issue of voucher eligibility such that either route will yield the same response. I have no idea what that will be but the issue is that CCA1974 provides for either party to end the contract, immediately for the customer, and on two months notice for the provider. If the customer cancels, it’s clear you forgo future benefits which would include the voucher, even if you had spent £10k but not reached anniversary so the question for the FOS is whether that position changes if the provider cancels. There was a previous FOS decision – DRN2242979 saying the customer also needed to pay the next fee at anniversary to trigger the voucher saying the customer also needed to pay the next fee at anniversary to trigger the voucher which is why volunteering a pro-rata fee refund is odd.

[stevenhp1987]

I never got any offer email…

I rang FOS asking for an update and the next day I received a generic “it’s in the queue” email.

They did say it would “most likely within a couple of weeks” for it be looked at.

It seems not everyone got an offer!

Rui N. wrote:

I wonder what happens if someone withdrew their case from the FOS after that shameful email back in the fall where they basically told people that they would lose because Creation has the right to close any accounts? Hope no one did that, but if they did hope FOS got back to them now.

Do people really withdraw from complaints because of such emails?! If there was a charge if we were wrong then sure, but there isn’t.

[Rui N.]

I hope not. But who knows?

[Colin MacKinnon]

@JDB

For the sake of clarity, my email from FOS is below.

My position is that my year end was 28 Nov. Prior to September I had spent well in excess of 10k on the Premium card. I made no new spend (and had no refunds) after the closure letter arrived, and Creation took the £99 annual fee in November, but then refunded it without being asked in the new year.

So an Anniversary Night voucher is all I want – not interested in any compo. Cannot see what the problem is with Creation, I think I have ticked all the boxes: spent the money, held the card at the anniversary date and paid the following year’s fee.

Why can’t Creation just say: We’ve had a quick look at your account and yes, under the talks with FOS we can see you’ll get the free night when we get round to issuing them in bulk – so no queue skipping!

Now, as for Mrs Mack – her case timings are quite different.

****************************

Dear Mr MacKinnon

Your complaint about Creation Financial Services Limited

Thank you for your patience while we’ve been progressing your complaint. As you’re aware we’ve been having regular discussions with Creation Financial Services Limited (Creation) to ensure an outcome that is fair and reasonable in the circumstances.

Throughout these conversations, Creation have provided additional information and it’s been important to take this into account for the individual circumstances of each case. As a result of our conversations with Creation, we’re pleased to let you know that Creation have made an offer to resolve your complaint.

The offer Creation have made will depend on the type of account you held with them. I’ve explained more details below.

Background

The closure of credit card accounts with Creation affected two of their credit card products which provided associated benefits.

IHG Rewards Club Premium Credit Card – customers were able to earn IHG Rewards Club points, and Anniversary Night Vouchers for an annual account fee
IHG Rewards Club Credit Card – customers were able to earn IHG Rewards Club points

Offer from Creation

For any customers who held an IHG Rewards Club Premium Credit Card, Creation have offered to

refund the unused proportion of the account fee on a pro-rata basis,
transfer the outstanding IHG Rewards Club points to their IHG account, and
grant Anniversary Night Vouchers for eligible customers.

For any customer who held an IHG Rewards Club Credit Card, Creation have offered to

transfer the outstanding IHG Rewards Club points to their IHG account.

I would be grateful if you could let us know whether you accept the offer from Creation in full and final settlement of your complaint by 31 March 2023.

If we don’t hear from you by then, we will assume your acceptance of this offer, ask Creation to action the settlement and close your complaint.

Next steps
If you would like to accept Creation Financial Services Limited’s offer, please let me know by 31 March 2023 and I’ll arrange for Creation Financial Services Limited to get in touch with you.

If you are not happy with the offer, please let me know why by 31 March 2023 and we’ll continue to investigate.

Kind regards

James Neale | investigator

[JDB]

@Colin MacKinnon with your 28 Nov anniversary, you ought to be fine (by a matter of days!) notwithstanding the unilateral refund. I don’t see what there is to lose in accepting. For those with anniversaries a couple of weeks later, after the closure date, there’s a question mark, even if £10k spent. For those that hadn’t spent £10k but are claiming they would have done but for the unilateral closure, hmm!

[Jon9]

JDB wrote:

@Colin MacKinnon with your 28 Nov anniversary, you ought to be fine (by a matter of days!) notwithstanding the unilateral refund. I don’t see what there is to lose in accepting. For those with anniversaries a couple of weeks later, after the closure date, there’s a question mark, even if £10k spent. For those that hadn’t spent £10k but are claiming they would have done but for the unilateral closure, hmm!

The first 2 scenarios you outline probably cover 99% of the complaints to the FSO re Creation. It is surprising as part of this settlement that the FSO have not required Creation to explain what their view is on each of those conditions.

I don’t really understand what role the FSO think they are playing here. Creation could have approached me at anytime and made an offer to settle if I would withdraw my FSO complaint. They don’t need the FSOs permission.

[JDB]

Jon9 wrote:

JDB wrote:

@Colin MacKinnon with your 28 Nov anniversary, you ought to be fine (by a matter of days!) notwithstanding the unilateral refund. I don’t see what there is to lose in accepting. For those with anniversaries a couple of weeks later, after the closure date, there’s a question mark, even if £10k spent. For those that hadn’t spent £10k but are claiming they would have done but for the unilateral closure, hmm!

The first 2 scenarios you outline probably cover 99% of the complaints to the FSO re Creation. It is surprising as part of this settlement that the FSO have not required Creation to explain what their view is on each of those conditions.

I don’t really understand what role the FSO think they are playing here. Creation could have approached me at anytime and made an offer to settle if I would withdraw my FSO complaint. They don’t need the FSOs permission.

I think the FOS is trying to tread a fine line. They have clearly pressed Creation to offer a settlement and it seems better for customers that such a proposal is made with some FOS oversight and the prospect for customers and Creation that the FOS will intervene if things aren’t done in a proper and timely manner. It would have been disadvantageous to customers and annoying for the FOS if Creation had unilaterally made an offer while the FOS was investigating in the same way as it’s not helpful for people to be communicating with Creation rather than the FOS at this point.

The settlement isn’t ideal, but ultimately unlikely to be materially different to an actual Ombudsman decision and it will most likely speed things up.

[Jonathans]

JDB wrote:

@Colin MacKinnon with your 28 Nov anniversary, you ought to be fine (by a matter of days!) notwithstanding the unilateral refund. I don’t see what there is to lose in accepting. For those with anniversaries a couple of weeks later, after the closure date, there’s a question mark, even if £10k spent. For those that hadn’t spent £10k but are claiming they would have done but for the unilateral closure, hmm!

@JDB what’s your take on those of us that reached the required £10k during the notice period not knowing Creation we’re not honouring anything? And my card year was March?

[stevenhp1987]

My case, finally, has been assigned to a case officer. I raised it to FOS in Jan/Feb 2022.

No offer came through to me.

[Colin MacKinnon]

So, as per JDB’s thoughts, I have accepted.

So four weeks to wait!

FOS reply:

Dear Mr MacKinnon
Your complaint about Creation Financial Services Limited
Thank you for letting me know you accept the offer made by Creation Financial Services Limited.
I’ve asked Creation Financial Services Limited to settle the complaint directly – so I won’t do anything more unless I hear from you.
But if you don’t hear from Creation Financial Services Limited within the next four weeks – or there are any problems – please let me know.
Kind regards

[teddyboy]

Grant wrote:

I would not be surprised to find that all Creation did when this kicked off is close off the use of the cards, leaving everything else in place as it was. I can still login to my old account, view statements, see my points balance, etc. It is possible that the links to IHG Rewards accounts are still there in the background.

Yes – and IHG still thinks I am an “IHG Rewards Credit Cardholder” (and seems to be maintaining my status on that basis). The Creation account usefully says how may points they think they are withholding.

[Colin MacKinnon]

@teddyboy That’s useful, Mrs Mack’s has 20,000+ points showing – so perhaps they really are preparing to settle?

Might have been useful if they had simply pointed that out to her last week. Now the only thing is her Anniversary Night voucher.

[JDB]

@ Colin MacKinnon – hopefully it will now be OK. At least you have a time frame and you can reactivate the FOS in the event anything goes wrong.

[rams]

JDB wrote:

If you are happy to accept the offer in principle, you can just accept conditionally, i.e. specifying the pounds, points and FNC you are expecting to receive and asking the FOS to put your case on hold, undertaking to confirm to the FOS if/when Creation settles and if not to reopen. The only upside of not accepting would appear to be some sort of inconvenience but these are usually quite small. I know how angry people here are about Creation, but there are far, far worse cases at the FOS and they still get fairly nominal sums.

I replied following this approach saying I expected the correct pro rata refund, x points and the voucher to be issued with 12 months validity. They replied that this is marked as a rejection and needs an investigator to be assigned. So basically expect you to blindly accept what is stated

[Froggee]

Yep – I accepted on the understanding I was an eligible customer. No dice.

I’ve actually stopped caring so am just letting it be and will undoubtedly hear back from the assigned FOS case officer some time in 2024.

[rams]

I asked my wife to “blindly” accept so let’s see the what the 2 outcomes are.

[NorthernLass]

Same here, we’ll see who gets what!

[Lady London]

rams wrote:

JDB wrote:

If you are happy to accept the offer in principle, you can just accept conditionally, i.e. specifying the pounds, points and FNC you are expecting to receive and asking the FOS to put your case on hold, undertaking to confirm to the FOS if/when Creation settles and if not to reopen. The only upside of not accepting would appear to be some sort of inconvenience but these are usually quite small. I know how angry people here are about Creation, but there are far, far worse cases at the FOS and they still get fairly nominal sums.

I replied following this approach saying I expected the correct pro rata refund, x points and the voucher to be issued with 12 months validity. They replied that this is marked as a rejection and needs an investigator to be assigned. So basically expect you to blindly accept what is stated

Incompetent of the FOS, surely?

Too many people getting this “echo” in an empty space back from them. It’s shameful how little the FOS have done in such a long time. It’s a half-baked solution and yet the FOS isn’t actually getting off its ch*ff and telling Creation to respond to each complaint with an actual defined offer.

[Dan loves Christmas]

Froggee wrote:

Yep – I accepted on the understanding I was an eligible customer. No dice.

I’ve actually stopped caring so am just letting it be and will undoubtedly hear back from the assigned FOS case officer some time in 2024.

I accepted on that basis and they have pushed it over to Creation to ‘work out the details’. The uncertainty could have been avoided if Creation had been far clearer in their original offer – I’ve accepted on the basis that the offer will provide the refund, points earned till cancellation and the free night voucher (irrespective of their ‘trigger’ date). If it doesn’t then I suspect they’ll once again have a huge number of cases to be processed by the FOS and I simply can’t see the commercial or regulatory sense in that approach (but then again, they do have form in operating on an eyes wide shut basis, so perhaps nothing has been learned).

[JDB]

@Lady London while you say the FOS isn’t telling “Creation to respond to each complaint with an actual defined offer” that’s precisely what they have told Creation to do within four weeks of accepting the offer made via the FOS. This also enables people to go back to the FOS and continue their case if there is any problem so there’s nothing to lose, unless someone wants to hold out for an inconvenience payment which many say they do not. The issue of course may come re the voucher, but it would be strange if by now the FOS and Creation weren’t ad idem on this simple point.

[Lady London]

I’d hope so JDB, FOS inconvenience payments I’ve seen reported in another sphere were absolute bvgger all for all the trouble claimants had been put to. So I’d not advise anyone to hold out if that’s the only thing they need defining.

However the fact that the FOS as a f i n a n c i a l Ombudsman, has not spotted how long Creation has left cardholders without what they were due, and has let Creation state a woolly basis on which they wish to settle … and as a F i n a n c i a l Ombudsman, has allowed Creation to get away without making some offer that takes account of the time value of money and the risks, some of which have crystallised in the period since Creation should have paid, to the value of what was owed….So paid late those points and money are now worth notably less…. Well it beggars belief that in the *Finance* industry a proposal to compensate these losses was not forced into what Creation was told they had to offer in this so-called half-baked incomplete undefined “offer”.

So I will be glad if you’re right JDB