Creation Financial Services bashing

[StillintheSun]

Well done for your persistence everyone. I’m glad to see another consumer victory! Again poor show that each and every one of you has not been offered something extra for the months spent waiting to receive what you asked for an age ago!

It does rather show that where there is limited financial exposure to yourself its worth going for it by way of free arbitration.

You can bring a case to FOS up to 6 years after the problem arose so everyone ought still be in time to pursue Creation through FOS if they have not already done so.

[tim.uk]

FOS response:
You said you’re prepared to accept Creation Financial Services Limited’s (“Creation”) offer provided that, in relation to the Anniversary Night vouchers, you are considered an “eligible customer”.
Creation will issue vouchers and award points in line with the account terms. If there are any discrepancies regarding this once you receive the settlement, you need to contact Creation in the first instance and contact us if Creation don’t resolve the issue.
Please confirm if you’re happy to accept on this basis.

I’ve bitten the bullet and said yes.

[stevenhp1987]

tim.uk wrote:

FOS response:
You said you’re prepared to accept Creation Financial Services Limited’s (“Creation”) offer provided that, in relation to the Anniversary Night vouchers, you are considered an “eligible customer”.
Creation will issue vouchers and award points in line with the account terms. If there are any discrepancies regarding this once you receive the settlement, you need to contact Creation in the first instance and contact us if Creation don’t resolve the issue.
Please confirm if you’re happy to accept on this basis.

I’ve bitten the bullet and said yes.

Account terms only allow for a voucher to be given if you’re an account holder on renewal. If your card wasn’t renewed during the notice period then Creation can wriggle out of sending the voucher based on this wording…

[Lula]

Like others I’ve received the email. Had used with curve but no MS.

Like others I’ve asked for a definition of eligible customer. Let’s see…

[IanG]

Don wrote:

Time for me to take what’s on offer IanG. Provided that I’m an “eligible” customer. I don’t expect compensation in addition.

Sure, I’m probably going to accept because life is short and I’d like to be rid of this (and what I asked for was being made whole). But it does seem mad that having offered to settle on these exact terms in late 2021, they don’t have to even acknowledge the run around they’ve caused.

(Appreciate that each FOS complaint will have cost them so we’re probably even!)

[eskimoboy]

@JDB where are you?! Should I accept this or not?

[duggie1982]

Not in this race either but interested to know what you mean by using curve but not MS’ing, were you using curve for just day to day spending or something more?

[jimboandthejetset]

I have received this. Heavy Curve user for day-to-day spend, never for MS but did take advantage of the ATM facility on Curve.

I had a Premium card. My issue is that they shut down the card quite early in my membership year – before I had had a chance to reach £10k spend, but if I had been allowed to continue with the card then I would have met the requirement by about the fourth month of the year. Am I being unreasonable for pointing out that I only spent on the card with the expectation of reaching the free night voucher threshold, and therefore still expect to receive one even though I am unlikely to meet Creation’s definition of eligibility (all the more unlikely given the response tim.uk has received)….

[Lady London]

I haven’t read everyone’s posts yet on the offer. However a reminder of the following

1. Creation would be offering nothing unless the FOS had told them they were fair and square in the wrong.

2. Each person’s contract with Creation for a card is individual. I would accept nothing until Creation confirms to me personally the number of IHG points they will refund to me personally and I’ve checked it.

I also want more see 4. below. I’d ask for +25% and negotiate. More if my particular hotel I was going to spend the points at, is now 270,000 points, was 90,000 when Creation should have awarded the points, and if I’ve gotnan air ticket booked, adjacent nights at the old rate, had to pay out cash etc.

3. I also want to know the exact amount of refund of card fee I’ve personally been offered. I expect a refund of card fee to include a full refund for any month or day when I was not provided all card benefits at that time. It’s no good paying points and nights late – if the person was not credited at the correct time then regardless of being told 1 or 2 years later by the FOS, I was not able to have access to these key benefits of the card in full so I’m not paying the card fee for any month when any card benefits were withheld.

4. Given the time value of money/spend (inflation/interest), huge intervening inflation in hotel costs in general, and noting that in particular, in the [1 or 2 years] since the time when the points were earned correctly and should have been credited, IHG has made program changes resulting in hotels [mention any targeted or previously stayed in by the particular cardholder) now costing many timew the points. This is a direct loss to me caused by Creation’s misbehaviour and breaches and so this should also be compensated to mw as part of Creation making it right.

I note that if the points had been credited on time and in accordance with the contract, if I had received the contracted benefits at the time, any such risk of price or rule changea would be my responsibility and risk.

However by their misbehaviour Creation has caused this risk to crystallise for me resulting in a loss of at least £x for me personally, aa had I received the contracted benefits at the correct time I would have spent the points at the rates and rules operating in the IHG program at that time. Creation’s settlement therefore needs to take account of this in my case and I would suggest a minimim uplift of £x or x points to compensate time risk and the deterioration in pointa value for my use that has crystallised for me only due to Creation’s breaches.

5. Offering to pay free nights ‘to those eligible’ does not remove JDB’s elephant from the room, that if due to Creation’s actions you didn’t reach the next card anniversary, even though you’d spent enough Creation could, amazingly, still try not to give you the free night.

I’d tell them I need it in writing from Creation that I personally will be awarded the x free night(s) I am due, the points value of nights they can be used on will remain uncapped, and that each night will be valid for a minimum of 12 months.

Partially earned nights shoukd also be compensated pro rata aa Creation did have the right to terminate, but did it in an incorrect manner so I should receive pro rata what I’ve earned.

6. I’d ask “In addition to the above to put me back into the position I would have been in, what is Creation’s offer for time, effort and stress caused”.

“Once the above are clarified exactly to me in relation to my personal case, I expect to be able to respond promptly and favorably”.

Remember, your contract is individual.
Creation should be making a specific offer to everyone.
FOS may wish to get acceptance of the principles of the offer, but without specifics there’s too much risk Creation will drag it out and require more work by the cardholder because they will fail again.

Apologies for the length of the above quick thoughts.

We’re nearly home, guys

[Lula]

Yes used Curve for what I’d normally spend. So benefitted from a few free cash transactions and no foreign exchange fees. But that’s it.

I don’t think asking customers to go back to Creation to determine eligibility is reasonable. We didn’t complain as a class. We complained as individuals. Our offers should therefore be individual offers.

[Aston100]

The FOS is another toothless institution.

[jimboandthejetset]

Lady London wrote:

I haven’t read everyone’s posts yet on the offer. However a reminder of the following

Really appreciate you taking the time to write this. Thank you.

[rams]

stevenhp1987 wrote:

tim.uk wrote:

FOS response:
You said you’re prepared to accept Creation Financial Services Limited’s (“Creation”) offer provided that, in relation to the Anniversary Night vouchers, you are considered an “eligible customer”.
Creation will issue vouchers and award points in line with the account terms. If there are any discrepancies regarding this once you receive the settlement, you need to contact Creation in the first instance and contact us if Creation don’t resolve the issue.
Please confirm if you’re happy to accept on this basis.

I’ve bitten the bullet and said yes.

Account terms only allow for a voucher to be given if you’re an account holder on renewal. If your card wasn’t renewed during the notice period then Creation can wriggle out of sending the voucher based on this wording…

I received the same generic response even though I asked for my individual details of pro rata fee refund and points/free night voucher. Seems like the ombudsman is happy for process to be delayed further/allow Creation to stumble along and potentially short change people. Imagine having to re-refer a case to them, how long would it take to resolve?

[Harrier25]

Lula wrote:

Yes used Curve for what I’d normally spend. So benefitted from a few free cash transactions and no foreign exchange fees. But that’s it.

I don’t think asking customers to go back to Creation to determine eligibility is reasonable. We didn’t complain as a class. We complained as individuals. Our offers should therefore be individual offers.

The offer from Creation doesn’t sound like it’s individual when they refer to ‘for any customer who held…’

[jj]

@Lady-London, you are completely right when you say, “Creation would be offering nothing unless the FOS had told them they were fair and square in the wrong.”

Creation will have been in an extensive ongoing dialogue with the FOS over this and will have tried every excuse to sustain the initial position that nothing was due. The FOS will have simply said that all complaints would be be upheld and each complainant would receive a D&I award for their trouble. Creation will therefore see this as the cheaper option.

It’s also very likely that the FOS will have told Creation to treat all non-complainants in the same way under a threat to escalate the matter to the FCA. We shall see.

[Anna]

Just seen the email but it’s too vague to respond to as it stands. I believe I am eligible for 2 free night vouchers due to when my card anniversary fell, but does Creation? I think I’ll have to reply asking for some clarity on this.

[Lula]

Exactly. They need to make individual offers before they can expect people to accept or decline.

Harrier25 wrote:

Lula wrote:

Yes used Curve for what I’d normally spend. So benefitted from a few free cash transactions and no foreign exchange fees. But that’s it.

I don’t think asking customers to go back to Creation to determine eligibility is reasonable. We didn’t complain as a class. We complained as individuals. Our offers should therefore be individual offers.

The offer from Creation doesn’t sound like it’s individual when they refer to ‘for any customer who held…’

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

I’m sure they can soon top and tail an individual email with your individual offer that just happens to be identical to that of everyone else with the same complaint issues.

[Lady London]

Aston100 wrote:

The FOS is another toothless institution.

Yes the FOS has not done the job properly and hasn’t really nailed Creation.

Especially in the worrying replies by FOS to people above, they’re letting Creation fall back on the “account terms and conditions”. Which leaves room for Creation to start this rubbish again.

In particular they could deny the free night earned if due to Creation’s own incorrectly done termination the cardholder did not reach the next anniversary. Normally, there are actually legal ways they could get away with that. However since Creation behaved incorrectly in their termination practices you can demand it. So don’t throw it away guys. You wantvto make sure you get the free night eaened whether Creation terminated you before your anniversary or not.

And due to the termination being done in an incorrect way there’s a good chance you can ask for points or money pro rata for partially earned free nights too.

Demand a full, exact number of points and the confirmation of free nights and a pro rata for partial accrual of free nights (or negotiate an uplift in £ or points based on your typical pattern), plus the exact amount of card fee refund to include full refund for any month you did not have access to full benefits – often that will be from the date they wrote to you…

Demand all this specifically for your case before you agree to anything. I’d head it Without Prejudice and would be nice and make very positive noises (that’s why I’m thinking the W-P heading but an open letter without that heading you may be comfortable with sending)…as I’ve suggested above. But you’re entitled to a specific proposal and shouldn’t have to agree to anything till you see it in full.

Do it now to save pain later – I mean seriously who wants to have to chase Creation on any of this after you’ve agreed? No one wants to have to keep going back to the FOS either. So make Creation provide an exact proposal to you – how many points, how much money and its calculation, your free nights and pro rata restitution of free nights.

It’s perfectly reasonable and they shouldn’t be asking you to agree to anything that’s not detailed for your own case and complete. (The FOS should have made them specify for each individual too.)

[Lady London]

jj wrote:

@Lady-London, you are completely right when you say, “Creation would be offering nothing unless the FOS had told them they were fair and square in the wrong.”

Creation will have been in an extensive ongoing dialogue with the FOS over this and will have tried every excuse to sustain the initial position that nothing was due. The FOS will have simply said that all complaints would be be upheld and each complainant would receive a D&I award for their trouble. Creation will therefore see this as the cheaper option.

It’s also very likely that the FOS will have told Creation to treat all non-complainants in the same way under a threat to escalate the matter to the FCA. We shall see.

Excellent @jj. From you in particular, this is heartening.

Yes, Creation is low-balling it and will still try to fudge or wear claimants down if they agree without seeing their own complete specific offer first. Whether by their continuing incompetence or by design.

However the things the FOS has obviously told Creation they owe claimants indicate Creation.were fully in the wrong.

Unfortunately each claimant will now have to complete the FOS’s job for them by insisting Creation states their own specific offer in points, money and free nights to them individually, which is your right and perfectly reasonable, remembering you are a consumer and need things explained to you :-), before accepting it.

We’re nearly there folks. Just do that. Don’t throw away the victory, and put an end to this.

[Lady London]

BA Flyer IHG Stayer wrote:

I’m sure they can soon top and tail an individual email with your individual offer that just happens to be identical to that of everyone else with the same complaint issues.

They can’t. They’ll have to go back through accounts and calculate for each account. Everyone’s spend will be different, termination dates and start dates (so year dates for new free night accrual) were not all the same.

It’ll be work for them. As it stands they’re trying to get you to agree without doing the work. Which with Creation’s track record you really mustn’t do if you want to be sure to put an end to this. They will have to do the work anyway. So make rhem do it upfront and provide it to you as a specific money, points and nights proposal and then you can be sure it’s accurate and they will have no excuse not to pay you promptly.

And don’t forget to ask them to include their monetary offer for distress and inconvenience (see @jj’s post). I’d ask for £125 take £75. FOS payments for this are typically of such miserable levels it seems.

[JDB]

eskimoboy wrote:

@JDB where are you?! Should I accept this or not?

I’m in Argentina so have just skimmed this but unless there is some trick in the ‘eligible’ bit it’s the most ludicrously generous offer and those suggesting negotiating for all sorts of additional stuff need to book an appointment with a neurologist asap. Of course the robbers, so praised here, have been rewarded and those that had their cards cancelled hace suffered but that’s life.

[teddyboy]

Same offer email as above received from FOS today at 12.28, for complaint raised Oct 2021!

I used Curve a fair bit, but not MS. Mainly paying off big bills where DC (but not CC) was accepted. The assertion that “it’s been important to take [additional information provided by Creation] into account for the individual circumstances of each case” and then “As a result of our conversations with Creation, we’re pleased to let you know that Creation have made an offer to resolve your complaint” strongly suggests that not everyone is going to receive this offer.

As with others, I find the “grant Anniversary Night Vouchers for eligible customers” very vague. The points presumably will be as stated on the statements, and the pro rata fee is easy enough to work out (although I stopped using the card before the account was closed, when I realised they weren’t transferring the points, but with a pro rata of less than £2 pw I’m not losing sleep on that). Creation ought to be paying compensation on top, but I don’t think I can be bothered to pursue it for that if I get the points, free night and pro-rata refund.

Given the vague Anniversary Night offer (I spent the 10k, but as I no longer hold the card will the night be properly credited? Will it be valid for (at least) 12 months from the date it is credited?), I am thinking of IGNORING the email. FOS says “If we don’t hear from you by [31/3/2023], we will assume your acceptance of this offer, ask Creation to action the settlement and close your complaint”. If Creation then ‘action the settlement’ in a way that does not accord with my understanding of what I should be due under the 3 stated heads of the offer, maybe it will be easier to revive the complaint than if I “accept the offer from Creation in full and final settlement of [my] complaint”.

That may be a bit cowardly, but it should give some extra wriggle room!

[JDB]

Aston100 wrote:

The FOS is another toothless institution.

The FOS appears to have done a great job for people here; what are you saying that in any way suggests they have been toothless?

[jj]

My email has just arrived, so it seems they are being sent out individually. Use of Curve with NS&I clearly does not of itself disqualify anyone from the settlement.

I intend to respond by saying that the offer of redress is unclear. I originally claimed a free night voucher and a small number of points (I was one of the few who received a refund of the annual charge from Creation), so I will simply say that I accept an offer of a voucher and points as originally claimed. If that’s what Creation is offering, I will accept.

I will not be pursuing a D&I award, although one is absolutely deserved. While I don’t believe that linking Curve to a credit card is in any way improper, it’s clear that Curve carries a trigger warning for Creation’s executives. Given my usage pattern, I don’t want to delay the process any further while Creation digs in its heels, as I would like to use the voucher while I still retain top status with IHG.