Help please re todays Air Traffic Control problems

[yonasl]

brucebruce wrote:

My BA flight from Frankfurt this afternoon has been cancelled, I had already booked a reserve flight on Lufthansa for tomorrow morning. Assuming it goes ahead and I take it am I correct in thinking BA won’t be refunding any hotel costs etc?

If BA books you on a flight for tomorrow then they will oh for hotel.

What you won’t get is any compensation.

[Annie]

Now in tiny lounge at Funchal. Flight looks to be happening. If only my app hadn’t shown a 03.55 departure time I could have saved on a hotel cost. We weren’t in a position to be hanging around without a comfortable rest for that long.
I will inform BA that their lack of any communication and wildly varying app info has cost me. I know they won’t care but I have no understanding of where the 03.55 came from. I’ve kept a screenshot. I’m now dreading being kept on the tarmac at LHR for hours. Hopefully not.
Thanks all for your help and keeping me sane during the chaos.

[PeteM]

Annie wrote:

Now in tiny lounge at Funchal. Flight looks to be happening. If only my app hadn’t shown a 03.55 departure time I could have saved on a hotel cost. We weren’t in a position to be hanging around without a comfortable rest for that long.
I will inform BA that their lack of any communication and wildly varying app info has cost me. I know they won’t care but I have no understanding of where the 03.55 came from. I’ve kept a screenshot. I’m now dreading being kept on the tarmac at LHR for hours. Hopefully not.
Thanks all for your help and keeping me sane during the chaos.

Frustrating experience, but well done on your effective management of things!

[JDB]

@Annie – I understand your frustration and hope you do get back with might now be a fairly minimal delay. Whatever the app displayed will have been an accurate reflection of the situation at a given time, but when they are dealing with disruption on this scale with an unknown timescale, things change fast which is why they always say to keep checking and to go to the airport at the normal tone unless specifically advised otherwise. With aircraft in the wrong place, crews going out of hours but relief crews beyond the usual standby crew being called up etc it gets horrendously complicated.

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

I’ve seen on FT that a number of short haul flights are only able to operate back to LHR because their crews have agreed to go over their hours so they and their passengers can get home today.

Whilst it causes a number of problems (delays when they can next work due to rest periods and the need to balance their overall hours) it also means planes are back at LHR which will enable the schedule to get back to normal more quickly in the coming days.

[2cups]

Was on BA505 from FAO to LHR this afternoon. Cancelled, annoyingly after the ATC issue was resolved.

Finally got through to the BA gold line after hours of trying, they weren’t able to offer any flights before the 31st from FAO, LIS, or any other airports in a reasonable distance. Looking at Google flights, zero availability tomorrow via any halfway sensible route.

Starting to get a little nervous now about missing q week of work! Hoping that some availability will open up in the morning. There’s a BA airbus and crew presumably still in FAO?!

[t0m]

Flight cancelled from San Sebastian to LCY this afternoon. Only Iberia ground staff who knew nothing of BA policies.. their only advice to get a refund or try to rebook something yourself then claim back from BA. MMB provides no options to rebook – just phone us.. and phoning just produces a message to call another time and hangs up.

Given no other available flights in the vicinity we took the train to Bayonne and will take TGV then Eurostar back. My question is.. shall I pursue BA for any of this, or go straight to HSBC Premier travel insurance with a claim?

[SamG]

Faro looks very sticky. Easyjet has seats to Basel tomorrow morning or Berlin in the afternoon but can’t see any obvious seats from there though but Berlin you could do the train perhaps

I’d say potentially Easyjet will add seats or flights so perhaps stalk their app and also maybe take out an expertflyer subscription and set an alert for Y class availability on all the BA flights. They’re using the middle seats in CE which may add some seats

[SamG]

t0m wrote:

Flight cancelled from San Sebastian to LCY this afternoon. Only Iberia ground staff who knew nothing of BA policies.. their only advice to get a refund or try to rebook something yourself then claim back from BA. MMB provides no options to rebook – just phone us.. and phoning just produces a message to call another time and hangs up.

Given no other available flights in the vicinity we took the train to Bayonne and will take TGV then Eurostar back. My question is.. shall I pursue BA for any of this, or go straight to HSBC Premier travel insurance with a claim?

BA should pay it as rerouting expenses. Try them first then if they decline put in a claim with their denial. Do not cancel or refund the BA ticket just leave it

[t0m]

SamG wrote:

t0m wrote:

Flight cancelled from San Sebastian to LCY this afternoon. Only Iberia ground staff who knew nothing of BA policies.. their only advice to get a refund or try to rebook something yourself then claim back from BA. MMB provides no options to rebook – just phone us.. and phoning just produces a message to call another time and hangs up.

Given no other available flights in the vicinity we took the train to Bayonne and will take TGV then Eurostar back. My question is.. shall I pursue BA for any of this, or go straight to HSBC Premier travel insurance with a claim?

BA should pay it as rerouting expenses. Try them first then if they decline put in a claim with their denial. Do not cancel or refund the BA ticket just leave it

OK – good! I’ll try that.

Don’t worry because at the moment BA haven’t offered me a sausage.. no opportunity to rebook and no refund in MMB either. Not entirely sure why not..

[Super Secret Stuff]

BA Flyer IHG Stayer wrote:

I’ve seen on FT that a number of short haul flights are only able to operate back to LHR because their crews have agreed to go over their hours so they and their passengers can get home today.

Whilst it causes a number of problems (delays when they can next work due to rest periods and the need to balance their overall hours) it also means planes are back at LHR which will enable the schedule to get back to normal more quickly in the coming days.

I don’t think those limits are optional, I think it might be more to do with when the plane has extra crew on board they can extend there hours if rest is organised correctly

[Lady London]

SamG wrote:

t0m wrote:

Flight cancelled from San Sebastian to LCY this afternoon. Only Iberia ground staff who knew nothing of BA policies.. their only advice to get a refund or try to rebook something yourself then claim back from BA. MMB provides no options to rebook – just phone us.. and phoning just produces a message to call another time and hangs up.

Given no other available flights in the vicinity we took the train to Bayonne and will take TGV then Eurostar back. My question is.. shall I pursue BA for any of this, or go straight to HSBC Premier travel insurance with a claim?

BA should pay it as rerouting expenses. Try them first then if they decline put in a claim with their denial. Do not cancel or refund the BA ticket just leave it

Many places in France and bordering countries have incredibly fast trains to Paris now. Such as Bordeaux (2hrs), Zurich, Basel, Lyon, other German airports, Brussels (has Thalys/Eurostar) and AMS has a Eurostar connection of course. So it may be faster than you would think to get to the 2hr Eurostar from Paris to London if the planes are full. Or Thalys from Western Germany locations through to Brussels then Eurostar is fast using trains directly out of airports like Cologne, Frankfurt via Cologne, Dusseldorf etc on that train route.

If fares quoted are expensive check if buying that country’s railcard helps reduce the net price – get all on one receipt though.

[SamG]

There is some discretion especially when down route going home. I believe this is also to do with BAs agreed limits being more restricted than the CAA rules so the crew may be opting to go over those. Of course there are max limits that can’t be exceed even if crew wanted to

[SamG]

2cups wrote:

Was on BA505 from FAO to LHR this afternoon. Cancelled, annoyingly after the ATC issue was resolved.

Finally got through to the BA gold line after hours of trying, they weren’t able to offer any flights before the 31st from FAO, LIS, or any other airports in a reasonable distance. Looking at Google flights, zero availability tomorrow via any halfway sensible route.

Starting to get a little nervous now about missing q week of work! Hoping that some availability will open up in the morning. There’s a BA airbus and crew presumably still in FAO?!

There is one on the ground – G-TTNC . My guess is though they’ll cancel the inbound BA506 and this will operate the BA505. that flight looks completely full including using the middle seats in club unfortunately at the moment

[2cups]

Thanks for the help both, feel like there are very few viable options from anywhere on the Iberian peninsula for now!

Easyjet to Berlin is a good shout but not sure that is a much better starting point especially given the eurostar situation.

Ferrys from Dover also showing no availability!

[strickers]

Some talk about crews going ‘over their hours’, the correct term is Commanders Discretion. For those interested this is a fairly decent explanation.

https://pilotprep.co.uk/commanders-or-captains-discretion-what-is-it/

[2cups]

CE seats were available from LIS to LHR tomorrow PM. Agent asking for over 700 quid for ‘upgrade’. Asked to be transferred to a manager, after being on hold for 20mins seats gone, no help whatsoever. This is how BA reward loyalty!

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

Super Secret Stuff wrote:

BA Flyer IHG Stayer wrote:

I’ve seen on FT that a number of short haul flights are only able to operate back to LHR because their crews have agreed to go over their hours so they and their passengers can get home today.

Whilst it causes a number of problems (delays when they can next work due to rest periods and the need to balance their overall hours) it also means planes are back at LHR which will enable the schedule to get back to normal more quickly in the coming days.

I don’t think those limits are optional, I think it might be more to do with when the plane has extra crew on board they can extend there hours if rest is organised correctly

They are optional but not used very option

[DanGK]

BA are offering me a flight back from Berlin on Thursday evening. There are flights today with KLM via Amsterdam or SAS via Copenhagen. Phone lines aren’t open yet. Do I have to give BA the chance to book me and only book myself when they refuse? There are train options but limited Eurostar availability. Any advice?

[JDB]

DanGK wrote:

BA are offering me a flight back from Berlin on Thursday evening. There are flights today with KLM via Amsterdam or SAS via Copenhagen. Phone lines aren’t open yet. Do I have to give BA the chance to book me and only book myself when they refuse? There are train options but limited Eurostar availability. Any advice?

Yes, you do need to give BA reasonable opportunity to reroute you before making your own arrangements if you are hoping BA will reimburse you. You should keep a careful note of your efforts to contact BA and their responses. It’s also worth regularly checking MMB as the situation will be constantly changing.

The actual wording from the CAA CAP2155 is:-

6.6 The CAA’s view is that, if airlines follow the steps for identifying and offering re- routing to affected passengers described in Chapter 4, in the vast majority of cases airlines will be able to offer a reasonable re-route to affected passengers. Passengers, for their part, should give the airline a reasonable opportunity to identify and offer a re-routing option. In the CAA’s view, it should therefore rarely be reasonable for affected passengers to make their own arrangements to re- route themselves.

6.7 As described previously, and as clarified in Rusu v S C Blue, it is the CAA’s view that it is the responsibility of the airline to be proactive in identifying suitable re- routing options and contacting affected passengers to expressly offer them the choice of options required by Article 8(1).. In circumstances where the airline has failed to contact affected passengers in a reasonable period of time, these passengers may then be justified in making their own arrangements and seeking reimbursement for the cost of doing so, so long as, consistent with the principles set out in McDonagh v Ryanair Ltd, the expenses incurred by the passenger were necessary, appropriate and reasonable to make up for the shortcomings of the airline in offering the passenger a suitable re-routing option.

[SamG]

You can always call another number via Skype – Australia / Singapore/ India / UAE / USA are all possible depending on time of day or day of week!

[masaccio]

Just to counter the gloom – the BA ground staff at Athens handled the situation well and most people were in good spirits. Their instructions were as clear as they could be given the scale of the disruption and people were being proactively offered food vouchers at the airport and being told definitively their flight was cancelled then this was the case. We got lucky as our plane was the only one that made it out of London.

I do hope that BA actually fix the underlying IT infrastructure with the work that is underway rather than yet more lipstick on the pig. Whether their app/website should ever be able to cope with things like this I’m not sure, but at the very least they could implement queuing to manage the load.

[2cups]

2cups wrote:

CE seats were available from LIS to LHR tomorrow PM. Agent asking for over 700 quid for ‘upgrade’. Asked to be transferred to a manager, after being on hold for 20mins seats gone, no help whatsoever. This is how BA reward loyalty!

So to continue the saga / thread hijack in the early hours of the morning managed to get a Eurowings routing via Cologne Weds evening. 7 hour layover, arriving LHR Thursday morning. Looking forward to dealing with the BA complaints system to get reimbursed…

Incidentally some direct EZY availability did appear to open up fao to LGW earlier today as predicted upthead. Wasn’t brave enough last night to gamble on that happening without a plan, so going to have to make the most of 48 more hours holiday!

[t0m]

Made it back from Spain via TGV + Eurostar this morning.. submitted my claim to BA.. let’s see what happens! Wonder how long it’ll take to clear the backlog? Thought I’d try and get in early anyhow!

[Lady London]

SamG wrote:

You can always call another number via Skype – Australia / Singapore/ India / UAE / USA are all possible depending on time of day or day of week!

…and quite a few of those may well have Newcastle staff answering