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Forums Frequent flyer programs British Airways Executive Club I got bumped from my seat on a 2-4-1 once again. Are 2-4-1 being targeted?

  • MariaJ 26 posts

    Once again I got bumped from my seat travelling on a 2-4-1. Does anyone know why this happens?

    I chose the seats for me and my husband when I booked the tickets 7 months ago. When I realised about the change the BA staff on the ground told me that my original seat was not available due to the entertainment unit not working. This was a lie as someone else had that seat. I chose those seats so we could sleep overnight and work the next day. Very annoyingly they put me next to the toilets and kitchen.

    The whole experience was very frustrating as the first purser said she did not have a problem with me seating on that seat. She was not aware of anything being wrong with it. The second purser (after a stopover) wasn’t so nice. No explanation or apologies were given. It doesn’t make you feel like they don’t value you as a customer. I am now re-considering flying with BA altogether. I have another three 2-4-1 qued up and I am dreading using them.

    I think it has happened to me every time I have used a 2-4-1, either in the outbound or the inbound but the purser was always nice dealing about it. My husband has never been bumped, it’s always my seat. Are 2-4-1 being targeted?

    Thank you.

    Lady London 2,162 posts

    Until they lost MCOL claims or had to settle them, and had to pay lots of money that they’d thought they could avoid paying, it was very clear BA were deliberately targeting 2-4-1 passengers for downgrades. BA had no doubt imagined they would save money by picking on the people on their honeymoon that had saved up for a 2-4-1, thinking people would only be able to claim downgrade reimbursement (the 75% of what they had paid for First, being legally required to be paid back to them) for only one seat.

    Luckily there were enough court cases, according to reports, where BA found out that a seat is now a seat however it was purchased, and this would include 2-4-1’s, vouchers, discounts, sales, avios sales, avios all or part, etc…. and that as each of the 2-4-1 seat was not a seat, the second seat downgraded on a 2-4-1 also had its own rights to the full 75% (based on the cost of the first seat).

    Unfortunately so far as I’m aware there is no amount payable for moving someone’s booked seat other than they can demand refund if they paid any money for it. So unless anyone here has got any better ideas, it looks like BA is indeed targeting people on 2-4-1’s, and possibly people on avios tickets, to move to unfavourable seats.

    Lady London 2,162 posts

    PS write to them and complain. Describe that whoever, told you you’d been moved due to the entertainment at your seat not working. Mention how bad a seat you got and how bad a flight you had, when you’d paid for a seat 7 months ahead to avoid this. Then say it was “puzzling, since the other passenger was perfectly happy in the seat I had booked and was also using the entertainment system” (no sense in poking the bear when the bear knows it’s a bear) and say you are very unhappy about this. This sounds lke 10,000 avos should be tossed to you.

    meta 1,466 posts

    Yes, difficult to argue for MCOL.

    I would actually also complain to AMEX and say that this is unacceptable way to treat the customers. For maximum impact, I would seriously think about sending a letter by post to both BA and Amex UK rather than email.

    Lady London 2,162 posts

    Actually as it’s always you and not your husband, I am wondering whether it’s always the No. 2 seat that they are bumping (as “the free one” ). Or, actually this could be technically a case of indirect discrimination on the basis of gender, if they are doing that, as at least 9 times out of 10 that 2nd seat will be occupied by a female. Therefore if you can prove this pattern of behaviour, BA is illegally discriminating on the basis of gender.

    If it was me I’d express that concern as well after the main item, that BA “may be giving the appearance of…” in my email. If you do, do it properly. List every flight where either your, or your companion’s seat has been moved on a 2-4-1 (first) then any other flights where your or his seat has been moved. The further back you have records, the better, as it goes to an established pattern of behaviour by BA. Perhaps you’re not as stroppy as me.

    Lady London 2,162 posts

    Let us know what happens, and go on I dare you to chuck in an extra paragraph saying given this clear pattern of your being the seat that is consistently being taken away even when paid for from you as the female on a 2-4-1, British Airways is giving the appearance of indirect discrimination on the basis of gender and you’re unhappy at this clear pattern too.

    MariaJ 26 posts

    Thank you very much! I really appreciate your input.

    I will complain to both Amex and BA. I think Amex should know that their customers are being targeted. I posted this yesterday on another part of HFP and someone said that BA did the same to them and managed to leave bad taste after a wonderful honeymoon/vacation. Shocking!

    The Voucher is in my name, so I was thinking that the paid one it’s my husband’s and that’s why they always move me instead of him. Unfortunately, I have binned all the previous boarding passes.

    The thing is that there are about 4/5 other seats that could’ve been allocated to this person. Puzzling!

    • This reply was modified 54 years, 6 months ago by .
    ChrisC 956 posts

    Just to clarify was your seat moved to another in Club or were you moved down to WTP?

    The former isn’t classed as getting “bumped” whereas the latter is.

    When you write to BA I wouldn’t use “bumped” but use “moved” if it was the former and “downgraded” if the latter.

    MariaJ 26 posts

    Sorry I didn’t know. I was moved.

    FatherOfFour 284 posts

    And which seat were you moved out of, on which aircraft type?
    There are a few seats allocated as crew rest seats, which aren’t always blocked in advance. (If BA had intended to use this as crew rest, they shouldn’t have allowed you to select in the first place).
    Did you see the IFE in use, or just the seat?
    Did you pay to choose the seat, or do you have status?

    ChrisC 956 posts

    Ok so you’re in the orbit of BA customer service resolution policies rather than UK/EU261 downgrade territory.

    If you paid for your specific seat then request reimbursement of that.

    For the move you’d get offered something like 10k avios as BAs logic is that you were still in a club seat.

    Don’t ask for that as I think if you describe the other occasions you were moved and mention that it’s always you that gets moved when it’s your voucher they may offer more.

    And yes get Amex involved as well.

    AJA 1,144 posts

    @MariaJ I would definitely complain to BA> Did you pay to reserve the seat or do you get it for free via status? If you did pay definitely ask for a refund of your paid seat reservation fee on the basis that you didn’t get the seat you reserved regardless of the reason for being moved. You might like to do a charge back via Amex if BA don’t play ball (assuming you paid via Amex?)

    marks7389 425 posts

    Actually as it’s always you and not your husband, I am wondering whether it’s always the No. 2 seat that they are bumping (as “the free one” ). Or, actually this could be technically a case of indirect discrimination on the basis of gender, if they are doing that, as at least 9 times out of 10 that 2nd seat will be occupied by a female.

    Really? I’d be surprised if that’s the case. Many of our 2for1s have technically been my wife’s from her cards and therefore she has been the lead passenger (even though I’m the one driving our Avios collection and usage strategy).

    MariaJ 26 posts

    @FatherofFour It wasn’t a crew seat, First Class seats were blocked for them. I checked on SeatGuru.

    I just wanted to know if it’s just me or it happens to someone else> Until I read the above comments I wasn’t going to even bother to complain to BA as I believe that sadly they don’t care about their customer. The crew did not apologise or explain why it was happening. They just told me that if I didn’t move seats I would have to disembark.

    I have now changed my mind and I will pursue it, although I doubt they will bother to even reply.

    Thank you all!

    • This reply was modified 54 years, 6 months ago by .
    Amy C 389 posts

    Sorry I didn’t know. I was moved.

    You don’t know if you were moved down a cabin class or kept within the same cabin class???

    MariaJ 26 posts

    Sorry I didn’t know. I was moved.

    You don’t know if you were moved down a cabin class or kept within the same cabin class???

    I didn’t know that bumped meant moved to a lower class. As I said above I was moved (to a seat in the same class).

    ChrisBCN 296 posts

    Sorry I didn’t know. I was moved.

    You don’t know if you were moved down a cabin class or kept within the same cabin class???

    I’m pretty sure MariaJ meant she wasn’t sure about the bumped terminology, and of course she knew she was moved within her class (read the opening comment).

    MariaJ, I would write those letters, good luck with this and let us know the outcome!

    MariaJ 26 posts

    @ChrisBCN Thank you very much. I will let you know.

    CatchFlightsNotFeelings 34 posts

    I will complain to both Amex and BA. I think Amex should know that their customers are being targeted. I posted this yesterday on another part of HFP and someone said that BA did the same to them and managed to leave bad taste after a wonderful honeymoon/vacation. Shocking!

    Yep that was me. Separated across the cabin so a family of 4 could take the whole middle section, where we have paid to reserve the double middle seats. Also on a 241. Our first experience of Club World and bit of a disappointment, esp. shoved on 2 exposed aisles with the trolley banging against us, people climbing over our legs to go to toilet and not able to speak to each other or even clink a champagne glass in celebration.

    NorthernLass 8,419 posts

    I hope you spent the flight commenting loudly about your displeasure! They could have put the family of 4 in all the aisle seats unless they had really young kids and there were literally no other suitable seats available. I make a point of never paying for seating in CW and dare BA to do their worst. Never had an issue, we even got put in the F cabin once as CW was full!

    marks7389 425 posts

    I hope you spent the flight commenting loudly about your displeasure! They could have put the family of 4 in all the aisle seats unless they had really young kids and there were literally no other suitable seats available. I make a point of never paying for seating in CW and dare BA to do their worst. Never had an issue, we even got put in the F cabin once as CW was full!

    Reminds me of the last time we flew First in 2016 in the what was then fairly new 787-9 8 seat cabin. We both like a window seat, one behind the other and had 1A and 2A selected for probably nearly a year, which we were dumped out of at the last minute.

    Particularly in the absence of status I used to think it was worth paying the extra Avios for First over Club on a 2for1 redemption and certainly a no-brainer over paying Club seat selection fees. Albeit that was back in the days when a First return to the US was 150K avios, before the devaluation and peak pricing. [Am I showing my age, here…?]

    Not any more, though we still draw the line at paying £400+ return for two of us in seat selection fees. On our way off a recent Club Suite flight my wife looked at the (new 777-300) First Suites and declared she couldn’t really see much point in paying extra for them.

    I don’t think we’re really part of the ‘exclusive’ target market for F these days, which is absolutely fine with me. 🙂

    Lady London 2,162 posts

    Thank you very much! I really appreciate your input.

    I will complain to both Amex and BA. I think Amex should know that their customers are being targeted. I posted this yesterday on another part of HFP and someone said that BA did the same to them and managed to leave bad taste after a wonderful honeymoon/vacation. Shocking!

    The Voucher is in my name, so I was thinking that the paid one it’s my husband’s and that’s why they always move me instead of him. Unfortunately, I have binned all the previous boarding passes.

    The thing is that there are about 4/5 other seats that could’ve been allocated to this person. Puzzling!

    MariaJ if the 241 voucher is in your name then your husband is the +1 seat BA could regard as the free one.

    But you say you’re the one always getting bumped so that strengthens tbe odds to you being directly targeted as the female passenger, to be moved (thanks to ChrisC for the wording correction).

    Unless, of courae, out of you and your husband, it’s always you in the nicer seat? 🙂 Say, the window seat? In which case we’re back to it just being the nicer seat held by a 241 that’s being taken away, even when it was paid for, rather than a similar nicer seat held by someone not on a 241

    MariaJ 26 posts

    @Lady London I always try to get good seats for both of us. This time both of them were window seats in a small cabin so we could sleep, his was even better as it was at the front of CW. If my ticket is the free one (the voucher is on my name) it does seem that I am being targeted. It had never crossed my mind!

    ffwd 58 posts

    My seats also seem to have been changed from 2E/2F to 7E/7F on a 2-4-1 booking.
    Will report back if I get any more information.

    Lady London 2,162 posts

    Er…BA’s systems seem to be sophisticated enough when needed don’t they. Or are BA staff actually scanning bookings in Club and First cabins looking for seats booked with the ticket classes that mean award tickets and taking their seats away regardless of whether BA currently has the use of the money they might have paid to reserve that seat.

    Or is there a booking class that’s used just to identify seats paid for with 241’s.

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