WHICH? Travel cancellation campaign

[Jenniekg]

Just had this through

https://campaigns.which.co.uk/travel/

At long last – hopefully some traction will be gained to sort out this disgraceful situation for travellers.

[ChrisC]

Can you please give a brief summary of what they are saying.

Not everyone is happy to click through to external links.

[can]

I really like Which?
I joined/subscribed last year with the generous amex cash back.

[Jenniekg]

Briefly – Which? have joined forces with The Telegraph to bring pressure on CAA / Airlines to adhere to the Law as it applies to flight cancellations and delays – not to feed false info / no info to customers as seemed to become the norm this past few months. They are seeking signatures to a petition and also people willing to supply evidence of their experiences.

[meta]

Given where things are going, there won’t be any UK261 by the end of this year/early next year.

[lesscleverandrew]

meta wrote:

Given where things are going, there won’t be any UK261 by the end of this year/early next year.

Please go on …

[harley]

Have signed. It comes to an overall revamp in airline systems too. I have had many cancelled flights by the airline and they have refused to reroute on another airline – all phone agents have said they point blank do not have an option on their computers to do so even if there is no flight that day with said airline and agree they would do it if they were able to. Forcing consumers to pay for an alternative flight themselves and pray for a refund in any extra paid half a year later and usually with a fight. All airlines should be able to reroute as per the law which in my experience BA, TAP and Virgin all refuse to do

[harley]

Also needs to be some kind of transparent portal which details reason for cancellation of flight with evidence- i feel sometimes the airlines make up the excuse

[JDB]

Unfortunately the CAA ain’t bovvered. Also, neither they nor the DfT will wish to hobble British airlines with costly rules vs their overseas competitors.

[dougzz99]

I think this is something people need to think carefully about. It’s very easy to get angry when your rights are denied, but someone has to pay for this. If there’s a system where claims are paid fully in some sort of automatic way, the cost will surely be substantial and prices increase.

I’d put this in the be careful what you wish for file.

[dougzz99]

lesscleverandrew wrote:

meta wrote:

Given where things are going, there won’t be any UK261 by the end of this year/early next year.

Please go on …

Possibly a reference to this consultation https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/
attachment_data/file/1054433/aviation-consumer-rights-consultation.pdf

[JDB]

The consultation relates to domestic flights only where some consider that the compensation is disproportionate to fares such that it might actually reduce competition.

[meta]

I’m thinking about possible new PM. I bet British airlines will lobby for the removal of UK261.

• This reply was modified 54 years, 4 months ago by .

[John]

The current UK261 compensation amounts are excessive when the flights are short and cheap, but the proposal is to limit the amounts to the fare paid, which is not good.

[Lady London]

Then the airlines would ride roughshod. Look at how bad they arw now already still, with some reasonable legislatipn in place.

Who seriously thinks Ryanair, who is pushing this, can serioualy be let loose with such a proposition? Ryanair are already reported to be still abandoning planeloads of people at the wrong destination with no further support and that”s *with* the current legislation.

• This reply was modified 54 years, 4 months ago by .

[Lady London]

harley wrote:

Also needs to be some kind of transparent portal which details reason for cancellation of flight with evidence- i feel sometimes the airlines make up the excuse

The airlines would still lie if they could.

In exchange for a cap on compensation of, say, a multiple of 5x the fare paid for the leg with the irropsed flight in it, what is really missing from EU261 is enforcement and penalties. This was understandable for EU261. As it’s not so easy to enforce consistently when each country still has its own local setup.

But in UK261 there is no such issue as it only covers the UK. So it would be easy to give courts the power to fine airlines or quadruple compensation in cases where an airline has ignored, delayed, or unreasonably denied a claim. Or mandate payment of compensation within 30 days and reimbursement amounts such as for duty of care or downgrade, to be examined and paid within 30-45 days.

So the UK really should bring in these things in exchange for any lowering of compensation amounts. If the UK doesn’t do this and yet weakens the legislation then it would be just another sellout to industrialists and the money men.

[ChrisBCN]

Lady London wrote:

If the UK doesn’t do this and yet weakens the legislation then it would be just another sellout to industrialists and the money men.

And THAT was exactly the point of Brexit, and why the super rich newspaper barons and some of the top of the political elite chose to manipulate some of the public as hard as they did.

[dougzz99]

It’s cheap flights that need the most protection. 261 is not a windfall for the customer, it’s punitive to the airlines to not cancel flights for economic reasons.

[dougzz99]

Lady London wrote:

harley wrote:

Also needs to be some kind of transparent portal which details reason for cancellation of flight with evidence- i feel sometimes the airlines make up the excuse

The airlines would still lie if they could.

In exchange for a cap on compensation of, say, a multiple of 5x the fare paid for the leg with the irropsed flight in it, what is really missing from EU261 is enforcement and penalties. This was understandable for EU261. As it’s not so easy to enforce consistently when each country still has its own local setup.

But in UK261 there is no such issue as it only covers the UK. So it would be easy to give courts the power to fine airlines or quadruple compensation in cases where an airline has ignored, delayed, or unreasonably denied a claim. Or mandate payment of compensation within 30 days and reimbursement amounts such as for duty of care or downgrade, to be examined and paid within 30-45 days.

So the UK really should bring in these things in exchange for any lowering of compensation amounts. If the UK doesn’t do this and yet weakens the legislation then it would be just another sellout to industrialists and the money men.

The problem with UK being out of step with EU on something like air travel is the competitive damage to the airline. If BA have to price ‘guaranteed 261’ commitments into their prices, they’ll struggle against all competitors.

I don’t fly them regularly enough to know, but do the likes of TAP and Iberia pay 261? Lufthansa were given a pass by the (subsidising) German gov in Covid, despite the EU insisting 261 was still in play.

Now we’re outside we have no say. I guess this is another ‘benefit’ of Brexit.

[Rui N.]

Why wouldn’t TAP and Iberia not pay EU261? It’s not a choice.
Never heard that the German government allowed LH to not follow the law. In any case, I think they have courts in Germany now (new development), so laws should be able to be enforceable there. Anyhow, LH’s bailout was not a subsidy, it was a loan, that was already paid back in fact. At a much worst rate (up to 9%, but they’ve paid it before reaching that) than UK-based businesses (including BA) got from our government.