EXCLUSIVE: the new British Airways cabin crew pay offer revealed – big cuts for legacy crew

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• Derek Scott says:

  15 May15 May 18:32

  Strike times ahead methinks

  • TGLoyalty says:

    15 May15 May 18:40

    What use is a strike when planes aren’t flying in any case.

    BA are using this situation to their advantage to get rid of “legacy” staff. Not great behaviour at a time when everyone needs to pull together.

  • Rob says:

    15 May15 May 18:47

    Mixed Fleet won’t strike – they are worse off but not massively so and most only stay a couple of years anyway. As long as BA isn’t flying more than 40% of its normal services, Mixed Fleet will do.

  • Ian says:

    15 May15 May 18:56

    Nonsense! BA has been very astute here…if 50% of cabin cre strike it will make zero difference to BA. When are they likely to be running more than 50% of their pre-lockdown schedule?

  • Derek Scott says:

    15 May15 May 21:10

    To clarify, I don’t believe in Strikes. We’re not in the ‘70’s. But the bullish mentality of the Unions has always been to go in this direction, and they’ll do whatever they think is necessary to force BA into a retreat of the current proposal/ position.

    I feel sorry for the crew and surprised BA doesn’t take a more balanced approach of raising MF salaries, to strike a balance, attract and retain quality staff and still maintain a competitive edge service-wise. There’s no gain from losing a vast amount of loyal and long experience. Other industries have learned to offer good packages, to build and expand loyalty, experience, knowledge and enhanced service. I despair at some of the decisions BA have made over the years at the expense of colleague engagement, which will always seep into the customer experience.

    Happy workforce means happy customers and better bottom line

• Euan says:

  15 May15 May 18:33

  I’ve regularly seen crew on their commute flights from GLA or EDI down to LHR, it’s a shame that BA hasn’t provided for those having to commute from outwith London. I imagine anyone willing to commute like that has a great passion and enthusiasm for the role adding to the service.

  • Kieran says:

    15 May15 May 18:45

    I’m not sure you could be much further from the truth. They are contracted to live within a certain distance from the airport – if they choose to live further away it’s a lifestyle choice and doesn’t mean they love the job anymore than someone who lives in Feltham.

    • Jack the lad says:

      15 May15 May 19:19

      Many staff were recruited from European cities in the late 90’s, and some staff were redeployed from the regional crew bases, and ground bases after 9/11 and the 08 financial crash.

    • Euan says:

      15 May15 May 19:34

      @Kieran. People willing to travel and pay for flights (which they have to) to get to work definitely have a passion for the job so I think you’re wrong. Having the ability to recruit only from the local area will reduce their talent pool and thus people who want the job less will be more likely to get it with reduced competition in the future.
      They are also not contracted to live a certain distance from the airport so you’re wrong on that too.

      • Alan says:

        16 May16 May 01:32

        Also who can blame them for not wanting to live in London with the extortionate property prices that brings?!

    • Brian W says:

      16 May16 May 01:58

      @Euan is correct, @Kieran is talking utter nonsense. I see BA and VS crew based in Scotland making their way to Heathrow on BA (and formerly Little Red) flights from GLA and EDI on a weekly basis for long haul duties, it’s very common. It’s clear they have a passion. I’m confident @Kieran doesn’t fly to GLA and EDI from the London Hubs weekly as I do (and will again post Covid!) or he wouldn’t make such a finger in the air comment.

      • Kevin says:

        16 May16 May 06:29

        That must be the same passion that people who pay £5-10k a year on an annual rail pass have for their jobs.

      • Margaret says:

        16 May16 May 09:24

        Yes. I’ve sat next to both BA and Virgin crew in economy on flights to London on a Sunday evening quite a few times. I wondered why Virgin crew were on BA, but now I know.

• Journeying John says:

  15 May15 May 18:33

  At this point, let’s hope for mass resignation and BA realising the impossibility of operating without any crew…

  • Chrish says:

    15 May15 May 18:43

    Striking won’t work, but sick due to “Stress” might disrupt BA more than they realize especially if plane’s are about to take off

    • Mr(s) Entitled says:

      15 May15 May 19:09

      Anyone faking a mental illness lacks morality and should be fired on the spot. But yes, good point. Reflects well on you.

      As it is, BA are using the opportunity for maximum gain. Horrible for the employees. Hopefully consumers have long memories.

      • Doug M says:

        15 May15 May 19:33

        Someone halved your salary and makes the job very unattractive could well lead to stress.

        • J says:

          15 May15 May 19:54

          Yes, but I’m not convinced that is what Chrish was suggesting. I may be wrong though.

        • Mr(s) Entitled says:

          15 May15 May 22:38

          The link was between Stress and planes about to take off. The implication being maximum disruption equals maximum leverage.

          People with mental illness very often die. It is not trivial. It should not be faked any more than you would recommend someone signing off with Leukemia when it wasn’t real. Or maybe coughing on passengers? That would be a good one too.

          For what it is worth Doug, having been made redundant myself previously I have seen my salary drop by 100% so I know how I would react. Each of us live by our own code. I ensure I sleep well at night.

      • mvcvz says:

        15 May15 May 20:50

        Entitled by name,….

    • Chrish says:

      15 May15 May 20:40

      J@ Your not wrong, me i worked to live (not lived to work) saying that up to when i retired at 50 i had only 3 weeks off ill in 35 years and worked for 19 years last firm, 10 years before that and a few less than that. So the firms must have thought i was ok lol
      All that time i always refused to work overtime no mater what,
      some liked me some didn’t lol
      Always said i would retire at 50 planned for it and did, never looked back love retirement
      but did i care about any work no
      I Always refused any contract other than the one i started at each firm
      So yes no morals but must have had a good work ethic to not have been sacked
      as a addition late 3 times in 35 years as well
      i bet not many can say that

    • Lady London says:

      16 May16 May 11:24

      Nah @ChrisH someone has said BA has got that covered by insisting staff be available on standby waiting at or near the airport to find out if they might be called (and paid) that day, or not.

  • insider says:

    15 May15 May 19:15

    why would the Mixed Fleet crew resign? It doesn’t appear to be far from their quoted current salaries, and more practically, who would want to resign now with few prospects for another job?

• Paul says:

  15 May15 May 18:33

  I guess striking isn’t going to have too much of an impact… BA management are making hay while the sun isn’t shining so to speak.

  • Rob says:

    15 May15 May 18:46

    A picket line with people standing 2 metres apart won’t work too well.

    • BP says:

      16 May16 May 01:10

      It could work fantastically well. Ring the building 2m apart and nobody can get in without breaking social distancing.

• Qwertyknowsbest says:

  15 May15 May 18:39

  Pure opportunism to not waste a crisis. Whilst I understand that some crew need to accept that we are now in a different world and even accepting BA’s desire to bring flexibility and lower the heavy cost with its legacy staff, this is brutal!

  • Lady London says:

    15 May15 May 20:51

    i cant see how they would have any money left to contribute to a pension as well as pay extra for health insurance on that money.

    Presumably the health insurance would be very important because travelling internationally constantly, working in air-sealed environments on the ground and in planes all day, travelling to different coutries, and exposed to literally Hundreds or even Thousands of passengers all week even if impossible distances could be maintained…..it’s a higher risk job for health than a normal office.

    I understand the realities but feel the BA experience will not recover to the unique experience of a good crew at the top of their game, i will be looking forward to seeing how BA will differentiate itself from other airlines for staff and customers now.

    I dont mean to be rude but I’d rather have Easyjet staff than the majority of Mixed Fleet. I hope there is some decent treatment for longserving staff that have to go. Last one out should turn out the light.

    • Londonsteve says:

      15 May15 May 23:17

      Totally agree on the aspect of Easyjet staff vs. Mixed Fleet. Sorry to say Easyjet crossed that threshold a couple of years ago. Wouldn’t be surprised if some cabin crew candidates chose Easyjet instead of BA to begin with, based on the relative merits of the job and their compensation package.

      • Margaret says:

        16 May16 May 09:31

        Jet2 staff are the best imo apart from the legacy staff on their game. My daughter always comments on them being fun, caring and mumsy when we fly to/ from the US (especially from Heathrow).

• Rob says:

  15 May15 May 18:44

  Very likely to be true. But why not? If you are Worldwide fleet you are only doing a handful of trips per month with long gaps between. The legal flying limit is 900 hours per year remember which is 75 hours per month. You don’t get many trips out of that.

  • Mikeact says:

    15 May15 May 18:57

    You mean a handful of trips, but being paid excessively for the privilege ? And I guess, again, it’s a lifestyle choice if someone wants to live/commute outside of the UK. I understand that a number of commuters use Eurostar to get into London …. fine if that’s what you want to do.

    • Dave H says:

      15 May15 May 20:07

      I’ve always wondered how this works for tax purposes. If you live in France and PAYE in a UK job do you put your address on payroll as France and do you pay UK or French taxes?

      I think the EHIC is only meant for temporary visitors so does that mean you need to pay medical insurance in France?

      I had thought of doing this before but thanks to Corona it’s made me realise that depending on the job it could be risky if your residence gets locked down but your work country isn’t.

      • Alan says:

        16 May16 May 01:38

        There’s rules re residency for tax purposes, HMRC website has a checklist you go through. Double taxation agreements would mean you’d get credit in for tax paid regardless. No issue with EHIC longterm AFAIK although of course not an option after the end of this year, but anyone doing this for a while will probably be in a position to apply for French citizenship. Don’t imagine Eurostar commutes will be much fun with increased border controls though!

  • @mkcol says:

    15 May15 May 22:58

    I have a friend who used to commute for Eurofleet from Lisbon, so it’s not just WW who were doing so. Remember that Eurofleet tend to do their flights as 2-4 night trips around Europe, rarely just a single there & back the same day.
    It’ll be interesting to see if they’ll simplify the standby & time between flights structure too, as it was massively complex.

• Kieran says:

  15 May15 May 18:46

  Not sure it’s free. It will be the taxes at least.

• Mikeact says:

  15 May15 May 18:49

  Could some knowledgeable person spell out what ….. ‘for Legacy, Heathrow crew,it isn’t pretty’ … means in more detail?

  • sigma421 says:

    15 May15 May 18:56

    If you started working for BA as crew before about 2010, you’d be in either Worldwide or Eurofleet (Rob explains the details in his article). These crew generally have substantially more generous pay and conditions than their post-2010 Mixed Fleet colleagues. There’s a further divide within these ‘legacy’ crew. Anyone who joined before 1997 is on an even better contract and these are the people who are earning very high salaries. There are far fewer of these than BA would have you believe.

    • Mikeact says:

      15 May15 May 19:06

      Thanks. So a very high salary, whatever that means, could mean somebody pouring me a second cup of coffee on the way down to Cape Town on £100 k per annum ? Does Legacy also apply to the crew working down the back or are they exclusively up front ?
      Sorry, but I’m just a passenger and have never really thought about the crew in these terms. As long as they know what to do in any emergency has always been my priority, and I speak as someone who has been involved in serious, very, incidents over the years.

      • insider says:

        15 May15 May 19:22

        BA has 3 (or 4 including international cabin crew) different cabin crew fleets. Worldwide (flying longhaul only – legacy), Eurofleet (flying shorthaul only – legacy) and mixed fleet (flying both, and new recruits go here). The legacy fleets were closed to new entrants around the last recession.

        The legacy fleets do not fly together, so yes you will have worldwide fleet working up front and down back. I doubt they’d be any on £100k+, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the cabin service directors were in the £60k range. This compares to mixed fleet closer to £20k, so you can see why BA want to close these fleets down

        • Nick_C says:

          15 May15 May 19:57

          I thought Gatwick crew had their own T&Cs as well?

        • Rob says:

          15 May15 May 20:48

          They do.

        • insider says:

          15 May15 May 20:20

          i think they moved LGW crew onto mixed fleet contracts a few years back, but not certain

    • Cal says:

      15 May15 May 19:28

      What would the pre 1997 “even better” contract look like?

  • CV3V says:

    15 May15 May 19:07

    and as discussed, they will probably be rostered for 4 or so long haul flights per month, this in turn means a lot of crew don’t stay in London, dotted in cities all round UK and Europe. I’ve known crew rostered on standby fly down to LHR for the day and wait in the crew room until the last flight departure in their standby period departs, then fly back home again – its some commute.

    New proposal could see them do a bunch of short haul flights all week, then a long haul week after (subject to regs on crew working hours, which BA will max out).

  • Jack the lad says:

    15 May15 May 19:23

    Basically a 50% cut in take home pay, working double the amount you do now with none of the protections that have been negotiated and protected for years.

    Remember the 24k “package” includes pension payments from the company, and expenses for living down route. So the basic pay will be around £15,000 .

    • Derek Scott says:

      15 May15 May 21:17

      Most people not in the 40% tax bracket would have roughly 75% net from gross pay. So a £24k gross is around £18,000 net = £1,500 monthly take home

  • Rob says:

    15 May15 May 19:26

    You’re looking at, potentially, £70k down to £24k (for someone who is forced out of a senior role due to the large cut in the number of senior roles vs base crew) – and the £24k is a fake figure due to allowances (the equivalent of your boss saying you can no longer claim expenses when travelling).

    • mvcvz says:

      15 May15 May 19:29

      So, entirely serious question. People were legitimately being paid £70K pa as cabin crew? I have three university degrees and two professional fellowships. It took me decades before I was earning anything like that.

      • Rob says:

        15 May15 May 19:35

        There are Cabin Service Directors on that, yes, who have been with the airline for 30+ years. I doubt anyone under 50 is on that much. There are not many of them, however.

        • mvcvz says:

          15 May15 May 20:12

          Wow. Thanks. Entirely different perspective. Waitresses with a bit of critical incident training.

        • Lady London says:

          15 May15 May 21:14

          ok mvcvz. All that education and yet… Sorry but with respect, you’re giving the impression that your education failed to cover respect, politeness and sympathy for the situation of others.

        • Bazza says:

          16 May16 May 07:26

          Best to ignore this one. Seems extremely arrogant and rude. No surprised his never been a high earner with that bitterness he carries.

      • Doug M says:

        15 May15 May 19:39

        So what, you think years in education means capable? If you wanted money you should have worked for a bank or as a plumber.

      • Bill says:

        15 May15 May 20:25

        Comments like this are why there will be a race to the bottom as soon as employers can exploit a situation. BA saw fit to have a reward scheme such as it is / was. It’s not the fault of the employees.

        • insider says:

          15 May15 May 20:35

          the problem for BA (and maybe legacy companies too) is that the aviation world has changed around them, and something that was perhaps appropriate many years ago no longer is. Same with final salary pensions.

          You can set up an airline in the UK now, with a UK AOC like Wizz or Norwegian, but offer incredibly poor T&Cs (see Norwegian effectively firing all UK / Spanish based staff by bankrupting the entity that employs them) and then compete with BA. BA have the brand presence, but these companies can probably fly at 20% less of the cost.

      • MJ says:

        15 May15 May 23:43

        Probably a good thing. Imagine how arrogant you’d sound if you were paid a huge salary right out of uni.

        • Alan says:

          16 May16 May 01:43

          Isn’t that what the big consulting firms specialise in doing? 😉 Then sell their ‘expertise’ at even higher markups to the public sector…

        • Rob says:

          16 May16 May 09:33

          Some London law firms are paying £100k+ starting packages now.

        • Crafty says:

          18 May18 May 08:37

          If your brand relies on having a high concentration of very intelligent Oxbridge graduates, you have to pay to attract them. I’m not sure why this is surprising!

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