Creation cancelling credit cards which have been used with a Curve Card

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• KJ says:

  2 Oct2 October 23:50

  What’s the situation with paying HMRC with HSBC premier world elite through Curve? A couple of conflicting posts

  • Jonathan says:

    3 Oct3 October 08:59

    Works but no points awarded so pointless in every sense!

• Dan says:

  3 Oct3 October 01:07

  I thought they had blocked Curve from being used with the IHG card. I got this SMS on 9th October:

  “With immediate effect we will be unable to process any transactions using your Curve Card where the transaction is allocated to your Creation issued credit card”.

  If this was true then why cancel the card as well – tricks me as punishment for doing something we had no idea was an issue.

  The letter had no explanation of why the card was cancelled.

  Is there a way to submit an application to the Ombudsman as a group given the claim is the same.

  • Blenz101 says:

    3 Oct3 October 06:16

    Those that called Curve after the original text went out seem to have been told Curve were carrying out an investigation after the block was imposed. Curve said at the time they were in discussion with Creation.

    It would seem those discussions did not end well.

    Even if you put aside the issues with MS, loss of forex fees, ATM withdrawal masking and impact of flex and GBIT the product removes control from the issuer. Take Tesco Bank debit cards as another example, they stopped working with NS&I recently as it wasn’t possible to authorise in the Tesco Bank App. It seems to have been now fixed. However, I could still pay 9k a day into NS&I by using Curve with the authorisation completed via Curve. Tesco Bank had their authorisation and control completely bypassed. It’s obvious this isn’t good for the card issuer.

    We may get comment from the companies involved, particularly Curve who have most to loose but realistically we will never know the conversations which took place internally about what the regulatory, legal and technical options were. The smart money would be they detected those accounts ever linked to Curve and their legal team wrote up the most concise form of words to invoke the 60 days notice clause. Cheapest and easiest way of removing the risk/cost of points without implementing technical fixes only to then play cat and mouse with that segment of their cardholders whilst new routes are identified.

    • Genghis says:

      3 Oct3 October 08:43

      “ Take Tesco Bank debit cards as another example, they stopped working with NS&I recently”

      Still working here!

      • Genghis says:

        3 Oct3 October 08:44

        Ah. Should have continued reading…

      • ThePenguin says:

        3 Oct3 October 08:52

        Wow! Thanks! Im going to start smashing that!

• rob(staaaar) says:

  3 Oct3 October 01:47

  Well, THAT was an interesting few hours reading through all 23 pages of comments. All I’m still in the dark about is is wtf is Earnie?

  • C says:

    3 Oct3 October 01:50

    It Earnies you points 😉

    • Blenz101 says:

      3 Oct3 October 05:16

      ERNIE, Electronic Random Number Indicator Equipment. It’s the name NS&I give to their random number generator for premium bonds.

      Using Curve it’s been possible to pay into NS&I accounts with a credit card and earning points, usually followed up by withdrawing the same funds and the redepositing.

      Creation it seems don’t like the risk profile for those who have ever linked their card to Curve and have invoked their 2 month right to cancel clause.

• David says:

  3 Oct3 October 02:46

  So, where do we think this is going to end up?
  IHG Rewards Club T&Cs, from sections 3 and 7:

  SCH has the right to terminate an account and/or revoke Member Points if it determines, in its sole discretion, that an account has multiple email addresses and/or is suspected of being related to fraudulent or abusive activity.

  Member’s misrepresentation of any information or any misuse of this Program;

  Member’s commission of fraud or abuse involving any portion of this Program, including but not limited to the abuse of corporate rates without authorization (as demonstrated by, for example, appropriate identification or validation at check-in), any conduct that improperly impacts the accumulation of Points or rewards, or abuses the redemption aspects of the Program.

  • Brian W says:

    3 Oct3 October 03:09

    😂 give it a rest @David, IHG have got nothing to do with this nor are they going to start getting involved. Glad you’ve injected some comedy into the 23 pages covering the matter however!

    • JDB says:

      3 Oct3 October 07:27

      The IHG points/vouchers are not part of the credit card T&Cs, they are, as stated above, awarded under the IHG Rewards T&Cs under the law of the State of Georgia and you have agreed that any dispute will be resolved exclusively by in person arbitration there! The suggestion that IHG wasn’t aware of this in advance is bizarre.

  • David says:

    3 Oct3 October 03:22

    Oh dear, Brian. Yeah, IHG have nothing to do with the contract issued to Creation, provision of free night certificates related to spend on the black card, receipt/application of points to Reward Club accounts.
    As others have said earlier, it’s inconceivable that IHG, at some level, didn’t know this was going to happen.
    I’d have thought it quite feasible to use the closure of 1,800 of their UK issued credit cards in these circumstances as grounds to close accounts… improperly accumulation of points alone.
    To be clear, I have considerable skin in this game and a lot to lose if it happened, but it’s got to be a possibility, surely? To think otherwise is massively naive IMO.

    • ThePenguin says:

      3 Oct3 October 08:56

      This is what’s coming next. Definitely going to come after these points now.

    • Char Char says:

      3 Oct3 October 13:16

      Clearly those terms are not related to the spending on a credit card and more related to other avenues. What you spend your money on the credit card is your business, there was nothing wrong with using Curve, they had a choice whether to accept cash like transactions or not regardless.

  • Anna says:

    3 Oct3 October 07:17

    But … What happened to the person who posted a few weeks ago that they’d been told their IHG points were going to be clawed back due to the way they had been obtained? Did that ever happen?

  • JDB says:

    3 Oct3 October 07:34

    Also point 4. (free card) or 6. (black) of the points T&Cs that come with the cards. I think many have forgotten the points T&Cs they agreed when they signed up for the card as evidenced by FOS decisions that refer back to these that the customer claimed not to know about.

    • Jonathan says:

      3 Oct3 October 09:07

      IHG have made a pretty profit from flogging points to Creation. They’ve got no interest in closing your account & a) deterring you from getting any future IHG cc (which they would also profit from) b) deterring you from ever staying in an IHG hotel again, however paid for & c) running the risk of Creation claiming they should be refunded for the cost of the cancelled points.

      I’ve got no issue with Creation closing accounts abruptly & without providing a reason. It’s permitted & a sensible business decision but some of the hyperbole on both sides re: Ombudsman/SAR’s etc & CIFAS/blacklisting/forfeiture of points is laughable.

      • JDB says:

        3 Oct3 October 09:24

        @Jonathan you are right about some of the hyperbole, but SARs started this process so shouldn’t be in your list. IHG knows about all this, but I have no idea if or how they will respond, however, with 100m programme members, if it came to it (and I am absolutely not saying it will) culling a couple of thousand possibly miscreant UK members will be of no wider concern.

        • Jonathan says:

          3 Oct3 October 09:33

          My point was that people saying they will put in SAR’s to Creation to annoy them/incur costs is pointless & petty.

          This is a straightforward business decision to cull unprofitable customers. If you were one of them then just take it on the chin. Equally it makes no business sense for IHG or Creation to take further action as it would be open to challenge legally & would bring in no revenue. Big businesses don’t engage in such behaviour.

          The number of people who have generated 7 figure balances off the back of this is minuscule.

        • JDB says:

          3 Oct3 October 09:38

          @Jonathan, ah, you were referring to DSARs, data subject access requests, when I was referring to SARs, suspicious activity reports! I agree, what a waste of time and effort; people would be well advised to keep a low profile and move on.

        • Dave says:

          3 Oct3 October 11:22

          @JDB why would IHG close accounts? Majority of people haven’t been wracking up millions of points. It’s not illegal to spend on the card, that’s what it was there for!

        • Genghis says:

          3 Oct3 October 11:23

          The way I see it:
          – I did nothing illegal or even breaching T&Cs; I was just an unprofitable customer.
          – I respect Creation’s decision. They can do business with whoever they want.
          – I paid £99 a year for the black card. I have accrued a voucher this year having spent £10k. They cancelled part way through the card year and therefore owe a prorata refund. Once I’ve got these, end of.

        • Char Char says:

          3 Oct3 October 13:19

          Agree with Genghis, being an unprofitable customer is not illegal and they have the right to close the credit card which they have done.

  • Roy says:

    4 Oct4 October 10:43

    The thing is, that requires IHG to show misuse (unlike the Creation terms, which allow Creation to cancel the card without reason).

    Even ignoring the GDPR issues around Creation sharing data with IHG, this would require Creation to actually do the work of figuring out who was using Curve abusively – something they clearly seem unable or unwilling to do.

• Rich says:

  3 Oct3 October 05:55

  Well I have used Curve with my IHG card just once for a cash withdrawal abroad and have yet to receive a letter. The suspense as to whether I’m forced to join the naughty boys club is killing me!! 😎

• Lee says:

  3 Oct3 October 07:22

  I lost my Curve metal card the other day, and they charge £50 (!!!) to replace them. It looks like, with the loss of Amex first, and now Creation, that it’s not going to be worth paying to replace it (plus the £150 annual fee, of course). I’ll just leave it until renewal, so I at least get the insurance benefits, and cancel instead of renewing.

  • Genghis says:

    3 Oct3 October 11:16

    Wouldn’t bother unless you really need for ATM. Just use Apple Pay or equivalent.

• Andy says:

  3 Oct3 October 07:45

  No letter here yet but only a matter of time!

• Rob says:

  3 Oct3 October 07:53

  Rob, do you see / anticipate other card issuers following Creation’s blocking of CURVE use coming over the hill? Never done any MS activity but still found it to be a very useful product.

  We all love the tips and products that HFP brings, and I’m sure it’s a difficult line for you to tread with your relationship with institutions on one side, and a ton of dedicated monetised readers on the other….

  • David says:

    3 Oct3 October 11:59

    Also found it to be useful but it’s clearly a toxic product. I used it for some standard fx transactions on holiday linked to Creation IHG, and made two test transactions of £10 (yes, £10!) to NS&I savings account to see if it does work after the hyperbole on here about it, before deciding it’s a fools game and I wasn’t going to go there.
    Now look who is the fool – legacy Black card closed which I really valued and used for all non Amex spend.
    I’ve unlinked remaining cards (rarely if ever used) from Curve, cleared my Curve cash yesterday onto restaurant gift card at Sainsburys and am binning the toxic thing.

    • Chrisasaurus says:

      3 Oct3 October 17:10

      The conspicuous lack of any comms from Curve is very telling. Certainly while I do plan on keeping mine until renewal I won’t link any cards I want to keep…

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