Stuffed #1: How British Airways sharply devalued Avios for members outside the UK and US

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• Adrian Dubock says:

  9 Dec9 December 13:26

  I have accumulated Avios over a long time, and recently purchased Avios from BA, and then have had them unilaterally devalued by significant amounts. The Avios sale was on false pretences. Is there anyway to challenge its legality?

  • NorthernLass says:

    9 Dec9 December 13:39

    How was it on false pretences (unless there was a clause in the Ts and Cs guaranteeing no future devaluations, which is very unlikely)? It’s always been a risk buying avios as BA can and do change their award pricing structures at any time, it’s highlighted over and over on here.
    I was toying with the idea of signing up to the avios subscription but felt that a devaluation was becoming overdue, so didn’t, which I am now pleased about!

    • dougzz99 says:

      9 Dec9 December 15:01

      I think the changes to the vouchers, the means of earning substantial numbers of Avios, and the numbers required for a redemption are all far too fluid at the moment to be exchanging universally accepted cash directly for these junk currencies. I’ve never thought buying Avios a good idea outside of needing a few to top something off, but right now it’s never been a worse idea.
      I’m actually wondering if the £12 for 1500 I’m effectively buying from Barclays each month is worth it anymore.

    • Mark says:

      9 Dec9 December 16:23

      Yes, we’ve been sitting on quote a few – in large part from the Barclaycard recently plus things like the recent Economist offer and a fair few from Tesco Clubcard before BA ditched them. Shelling out a large chunk on an Asia trip next year, and most of the rest are either in Nectar points (transferred at 250:400), or held in unconverted Amex MR points. I’d also thought about the Avios Subscription but as you say the annual subscriptions particularly do come with a fair amount of risk.

      That said, the best deals (with BA at least) are now for those who have the most Avios to burn, and the ability to use the 2for1 on Iberia services is a big plus (presumably Aer Lingus as well, though I’ve never properly looked into EI redemptions). Having done very well out of Avios over the past 15-20 years I’m willing to accept a level of risk, but this kind of wide-impacting and no notice change isn’t great for confidence in the programme.

    • Littlefish says:

      9 Dec9 December 18:45

      There certainly used to be a clause in BAEC t&c about reasonable notice.
      It’s been honoured in its breach on multiple occasions.
      Anyway, if it’s still there ….

      • baVid says:

        9 Dec9 December 20:43

        26.1. British Airways and/or AGL may in its sole discretion modify, withdraw, amend or add to any Services or other offers or arrangements or impose any requirements or restrictions relating to the use of Services or Rewards. British Airways and/or AGL will give as much advance notice as practicable of such action to Members. Current information is set out on Ba.com.

        26.2. Examples of the action which British Airways and AGL might take under Clause 26.1. include withdrawing Services which British Airways provides itself (such as Lounges), modifying the right to earn or redeem Avios points including the rates of redemptions, amending or withdrawing Lifetime Status (such as Gold for life), the withdrawal of a Service (such as car hire) provided by a Service Partner or the withdrawal of Rewards. In addition, Service Partners reserve similar rights to withdraw, amend or add to Services or impose requirements or restrictions relating to them.

  • dougzz99 says:

    9 Dec9 December 14:52

    Anytime you buy miles/points you’re taking a big risk. If they’re for an immediate use, and the timing of purchase/delivery/booking works, then it can be a good idea. If you’re buying them speculatively it’s never a good idea. You’re buying a currency with limited use, and the value of which is entirely controlled by a single entity, in this case IAG/BA/Avios. They control both the currency, and where you can spend and at what rate. Cash cash cash.

  • Harry T says:

    9 Dec9 December 14:57

    Lol

  • Blenz101 says:

    9 Dec9 December 15:01

    It’s like buying a gift card. The retailer isn’t obliged to hold their prices for good at the point your bought it.

  • Bob Bilby says:

    9 Dec9 December 15:44

    You’ve failed to appreciate every lesson of the loyalty game then.

    As a shareholder, however, thank you.

  • John says:

    9 Dec9 December 17:19

    It’s like me buying 5000 Ukrainian hryvnia for £100 last Christmas as I was planning to go this summer… (Worth about £130 at the time, technically still in “profit” at the interbank rate but who knows when it will be safe to go for fun)

• Nick says:

  9 Dec9 December 14:23

  I kid you not, extension of RFS was supposed to be the ‘sweetener’ for an even worse change (that was meant to be this week but is delayed). Lots in BA and AGL genuinely thought it was a good thing. Beggars belief really how some think, they never ask the right people!

  • NorthernLass says:

    9 Dec9 December 14:59

    You can’t dangle that and not follow it through!

  • Rhys says:

    9 Dec9 December 16:03

    Do you mean revenue-based earning?

  • Dace says:

    9 Dec9 December 16:08

    I’ll take a guess that the pricing of Avios we’re seeing at the moment with RFS is either ‘off-peak pricing’ or it is ‘old pricing’ to be replaced with new rates.

  • dougzz99 says:

    9 Dec9 December 16:13

    I reckon it’s going to be minimum spend for status. If not now, soon.

    • meta says:

      9 Dec9 December 16:35

      Short-haul RFS is next for sure.

    • Jack Hodgson says:

      9 Dec9 December 23:05

      No it won’t ffs why would they do that ? Teir point earning is part of one world which is based on distance and cabin

  • Jack says:

    9 Dec9 December 23:06

    Which is what exactly ? nobody really know the revenue model will I suspect be scrapped as it completely should be

• babyg says:

  9 Dec9 December 14:55

  Hurray, finally a travel blob/website where the writers didn’t drink all the BA cool aide and understand that not everybody resides in the UK/US etc. Wonder if it will move the needle within BA and create any updates/changes, probably not, but at least us non-UK based people can spend our AVIOS on non-BA flights, and now we can also use our 2for1s on non-BA too.

  • Rob says:

    9 Dec9 December 15:15

    We’ve not been paid by BA to be nice about the changes though.

    • babyg says:

      9 Dec9 December 16:49

      enough said…

    • Vit says:

      9 Dec9 December 17:01

      Incoming communication from BA asking Rob, what numbers that would change the tone? 😋

  • Lady London says:

    9 Dec9 December 22:11

    No wonder BA doean’t do interviews.

    I am fascinated by @Nick’s comment above, and wondering just what could be the worae change that the avios people – AGL – also thought would be a good idea that is also gonna happen.

• Paul says:

  9 Dec9 December 15:07

  I couldn’t see this mentioned already, but it appears that the old style Amex 2-4-1 (from a premium card) can only be used with the full Avios price for RFS (e.g. 160k Avios for a return from LHR to JFK).
  For the new style Amex 2-4-1 you can choose from the various Avios/cash options.

  • Rob says:

    9 Dec9 December 15:13

    Correct. I mention this is in the last line.

• philco says:

  9 Dec9 December 15:37

  US based members have taken a hit with this change though on balance it isn’t that awful. Prior to this change I could book one-ways from non-US locations and avoid the higher US surcharges but now because my BAEC account is US-based I get to pay the higher US surcharges one-way from locations outside the US.

  In my limited testing for UK/EU that is a couple to several hundred dollars more. So effectively US members no longer have full access to the old pricing. We only have access to the old ex-US pricing. Clearly this change is a win for UK members since their rates are lower than ours.

  Also a huge hat tip for giving the cons as well as the pros. A few of the bloggers seem to be drinking heavily from the BA Kool Aid.

• Dave Hughes says:

  9 Dec9 December 16:04

  Does the old Upgrade a premium eco cash ticket to business still work at the old rates? being from liverpool we have found great value in positioning to dublin on ryanair then done dublin – usa prem eco and upgraded the transtlantic legs with avios and small amount of cash? wondering what the avios cost is between the two.

  This will be the best way for Eu flights cost wise surely if the upgrade avios required hasnt changed (or the additional fees)

• lee says:

  9 Dec9 December 16:33

  For them to treat people on the old voucher like this is just wrong .
  Is there any legal ground to dispute it or are they covered on terms and conditions ?

  • babyg says:

    9 Dec9 December 16:50

    no.

  • NorthernLass says:

    9 Dec9 December 16:55

    How are they treating you wrongly? The Ts and Cs are that you get 2 flights for the price of one lot of avios. It doesn’t say how many avios that’s going to be. It’s not as though the programme has been the same for the whole time the vouchers have been issued.
    If you get a BOGOF offer on any product, it doesn’t guarantee the price of the paid-for item, only that of the free one.

    • Lee says:

      9 Dec9 December 18:16

      As they are treating the old 2 for 1 vouchers totally differently to the ones issued after sept that’s how.
      Old voucher now means you have to pay extra avios and still pay the Old rate of taxes of around £850

      • Rob says:

        9 Dec9 December 19:20

        No, you pay the new rate of taxes – £350 – but you don’t get a choice. It’s tough if you don’t have the extra 60% Avios to hand.

    • Lee says:

      9 Dec9 December 18:19

      REPLY
      Vitsays:
      9 Dec 17:01
      Incoming communication from BA asking Rob, what numbers that would change the tone? 😋

      REPLY
      Paulsays:
      9 Dec 15:07
      I couldn’t see this mentioned already, but it appears that the old style Amex 2-4-1 (from a premium card) can only be used with the full Avios price for RFS (e.g. 160k Avios for a return from LHR to JFK).
      For the new style Amex 2-4-1 you can choose from the various Avios/cash options.

• lee says:

  9 Dec9 December 18:27

  I will wait for Robs article as its all Quite complicated the implications of all these changes . Maybe I have read it wrong .

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