EXCLUSIVE: the new British Airways cabin crew pay offer revealed – big cuts for legacy crew

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• FFoxSake says:

  16 May16 May 09:48

  What a sad decline for a once revered brand…
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLloF1IYmss
  How can you not be moved by the end of this BA staff video?

  • Antony D'Emanuele says:

    16 May16 May 18:02

    Feel for staff, for BA to take advantage of the pandemic will leave a bitter taste in staff and customers for a long time. As the video highlights, BA is a profitable airline… If I worked for BA, even if I was not impacted, I would be looking for a new employer, one who values its employees… Many organisations have focussed on staff wellbeing throughout the pandemic….

• Dave Winchester says:

  16 May16 May 09:50

  Playing devils advocate – to those saying how can people possibly deliver good service on £24k a year, the average waiter/waitress salary in the U.K. is £18,525 and while many of us have had poor restaurant experiences I’m sure many of us have also had excellent ones too on people being paid far less than cabin crew and working far harder and longer with no break in a nice hotel at the other end.

  • Rebecca says:

    16 May16 May 10:19

    Dave,
    When was the last time a waiter suffered permanent jet lag? A career of long haul flying is like being continuously ill. It’s only when you get some annual leave that you realise what ‘normal’ feels like.
    When was the last time a waiter had to put handcuffs on a drunk and unruly customer because you can’t just remove them from the premises or call the police?
    When was the last time a waiter had to deal with a panic attack, a stroke or heart attack because there is no access to a doctor and you can’t just call an ambulance.
    How many waiters work all through the night, not just until midnight, but until 8am the next morning. 75% of long haul flying is overnight.
    Average salary you quoted is for all UK is it? What is the salary for West London only?
    Heathrow crew on the Virus Fleet contract have to live within 90 minutes of Heathrow for standby duties. Bear in mind it takes 30 minutes to find an off airport parking space and then catch a bus to the terminal. Alternative is to commute and spend time in a cheap hotel if necessary for standby. This will take up much of the salary.
    How many waiters work Christmas, New Year, easter, every bank holiday for no extra pay. Nope, not a penny.
    How many are trained to deal with emergency landings, ditchings, hijacks, onboard fires, decompressions, smoke filled cabins, medical emergencies, incapacitated pilots and fume events?
    How many never get any tips?

    • Capitalist says:

      16 May16 May 11:03

      I get your points, but it isn’t like you don’t know what you are signing up for and you can leave if you don’t think the money is worth the hassle and, using the OPs example, become a waitress?

      Soldiers fight in wars for less than this and could die. They should earn more but whilst you can fill the ranks with the salary you are offering why offer more? They are a business and it feels like legacy staff have had it pretty good relative to new comers for far too long.

      • Ziggy says:

        16 May16 May 11:55

        Except the legacy crews aren’t now going to be getting what they signed up for are they?

        • Capitalist says:

          16 May16 May 12:24

          Because that is no longer the going rate? As in it seems like basic economics and the only reason it has lasted this long is the threat of strikes.

          The ones I feel sorry for are the mixed fleet who have got screwed over for ages, but now equality is trying to be addressed

        • Rob says:

          16 May16 May 13:10

          It’s not the going rate for an 19 year, no. I would suggest it is the going rate for someone older with substantial experience who is not living with their parents. You have to decide what staff you want.

          If you were told your local GP was being replaced with a newly qualified medical student to save money I’m sure you’d have something to say about that.

        • Capitalist says:

          16 May16 May 14:29

          Fair point. But I guess I have just never seen the benefit of a 19 year veteran cabin crew member over someone else. And I have flown business/first quite a few times. Maybe I got unlucky and didn’t see the benefits due to the service I received being good regardless, but I just don’t see it the same as the doctor situation at all

        • Ziggy says:

          16 May16 May 17:47

          @Capitalist You’re changing your story.
          Your original statement read “but it isn’t like you don’t know what you are signing up for and you can leave if you don’t think the money is worth the hassle and, using the OPs example, become a waitress?”
          I pointed out that what Legacy crews are dealing with now isn’t what they signed up for.
          Now you’re suggesting that the reason things are different to what they signed up for is that their pay packet is above the going rate.
          That would seem to contradict your opening assertion…unless you believe that Legacy crew members should have been able to predict the future when they signed up?

        • Capitalist says:

          18 May18 May 10:07

          there are a wide number of issues with this, so i agree that i have stated two separate points. I made no attempt to say they were the same point so telling me i am changing my story doesn’t avoid the issue at hand – they can leave if they don’t like it.

          I guess i come from the finance industry where changes in pay are par for the course and you don’t have job security. I would still argue that if the legacy fleet don’t feel like they are getting paid the “going rate” for their role/experience, they can leave and try to get that rate elsewhere at another airline (just as i would go to another financial institution). However, based on the outrage and the fact that i am not sure they would get the same pay elsewhere (I have no evidence to back this up), this screams that they have been getting above the “going rate” for quite some time.

        • Rob says:

          18 May18 May 10:32

          If you’re in finance you’re almost certain overpaid yourself 🙂

        • Capitalist says:

          18 May18 May 12:07

          haha wasn’t my point but can’t disagree with that! we all are although i have taken a 20% pay cut due to covid-19 so definitely haven’t escaped some pain

  • Aston100 says:

    16 May16 May 12:58

    Well said.
    At the end of the day, cabin crew are just glorified waiters with some additional h&s training and sometimes with an attitude problem as an unexpected bonus.
    Why on earth should these people be so outraged that they are ‘only’ going to be earning 24k?
    Perhaps they can go find a better paying job elsewhere if it bothers them so much.
    Ungrateful.

    • PrinterElf says:

      16 May16 May 15:55

      I think you’re missing the point somewhat.
      Cabin Crew are expected to have a detailed knowledge of the all the various types of aircraft they could be working on (A319/20/21, B777-2/3, so 5 as a minimum), of which you could see all of them in a week. Not just the detail on how to get up to 500 passengers out safely in 90 secs, but where all the emergency equipment, medical equipment, restraint equipment, etc… is stored, the differences in operating the galleys, IFE, across each aircraft type, everything else that you as a relatively ignorant passenger expect them to automatically know about every aircraft you step on to.
      In addition to the variances between aircraft, they’re expected to be fully trained to handle drunk/violent passengers, medical emergencies, & aircraft emergencies.

      On top of all that essential knowledge, the more pretentious passengers (in all cabins) expect them to be food critics & sommeliers, as well as nannys, negotiators, tour guides, airport guides, and a whole host of other things because seemingly the common sense of 90% of passengers is left at the gate.

      Now if I was to put that level of detail out in a job advert, even omitting the hours, the jetlag, the potential for physical & verbal abuse, I’d be expecting the salary to be a damn sight higher than “*maybe* getting £24k if everything works out perfectly”.

      Taking it a stage further, is it wholly unreasonable to expect the people responsible for getting my sorry arse out of a flaming/sinking tin tube if it all goes tits up to perhaps not have at the back of their minds a worry about their living expenses, the fact they’ve not slept properly, or even worse?

  • SP says:

    16 May16 May 18:33

    Thank you for your comment but please remember when sitting in that hotel room we have to feed ourselves. Most places we can not take food in. In America apart from McDonald’s you can not have breakfast for less than $20. Then lunch and dinner. Just feeding yourself 3 healthy meals a day is a massive chunk of that salary.

• PeterP says:

  16 May16 May 09:51

  Agree Nick_C. Whilst I sympathise with anyone who is being asked to take a pay cut and having terms changed in such a way, I can also see that the current situation is just unsustainable. BA has transformed from the world’s favourite airline to a something of a commodity carrier operating head to head with the low cost players, with sadly little service differentiation anymore. It cannot do that if its current cost base is sustained. So what other option is there but to reduce its costs in order to survive? (Not a rhetorical question – to those berating the approach, what are the alternative options)?

  And yes, it does seem that some legacy staff are arguably overpaid for the role they perform. It is a real pity that the apparent former pay negotiations victories have been the architect of this outcome.

  • Nik says:

    16 May16 May 13:11

    Totally agree. It is a shame for legacy crew but it is a business and it will look for the best opportunities for itself. From a business perspective I don’t blame BA for their opportunism. Of course the fact that it has a human side is really sad but as you said, if not now, when?

• Andy S says:

  16 May16 May 09:52

  The various comments about part time hours and wages shows a great deal of ignorance on the part of the writers.

  How many people who have experienced long haul travel and the associated let lag would would be happy doing a long haul flight every other day continuously. Which is in effect what you are wanting if you don’t want people having adequate rest between trips

  The reason there is the rest period between flights is to allow the crew to be fresh and alert the next time they fly. Predominantly for passengers safety. The first “day off” is the one when crew get home and go straight to bed, the next couple are trying to feel normal before you start again. Firefighters, and many other jobs (highlighted as vital at the present time) do 2 days 2 nights and four days off perhaps you’d like to leave sarcastic comments about them next

  • BrianDT says:

    16 May16 May 10:03

    So, you fly to L.A. from Heathrow, overnight and return home next day. 1st day home in bed, followed by two days recuperating? Do me a favour. I do L.A. and other US destinations for short 1/2 day visits. And I certainly don’t spend the next three days trying to get myself back together. Australia may be different, but I guess the crew have 2/3 days over there before coming home. If it were that bad none of you would do it.

    • BrianDT says:

      16 May16 May 10:06

      ps And you wouldn’t bedoing long haul flights ‘every other day’..total exaggeration.

    • Rebecca says:

      16 May16 May 10:25

      As a passenger right? Just sitting down, watching a movie, being fed and watered, waited on. Maybe get some sleep.
      You can’t be equating that to working the flight? Do you know how many miles a crew member walks every day up and down the cabin? It is exhausting.

      • BrianDT says:

        16 May16 May 10:33

        I would wager on long haul, you spend more time sitting or chatting than walking up and down.

        • Bob The Builder says:

          16 May16 May 10:42

          Brian ,

          I would wager that you ignorance is as big as your house ?

          Go back to reading your Daily Mail Brian.

          You obviously have always wanted to do the job but couldn’t pass the application form stage, well shortly you’ll have your opportunity to apply for this new fantastic role on £24k with free car parking!

          Let us no how it goes!

        • Nick_C says:

          16 May16 May 11:59

          I agree with Brian. Flying back from Osaka was nearly 13 hours. Daytime flights. Meal service started soon after take off. Second meal service started 90 minutes before landing! For about 9 hours, the cabin crew were in the galley or the crew rest area. No proactive service (Business Class, WorldWide fleet).

          BA service seems to be prioritised around the needs of the crew, not the passengers.

    • mr_jetlag says:

      16 May16 May 10:42

      Oh Please. You’re probably down three speedbirds and trying to chat up the crew. Meanwhile, they’re 2/3 of the way through economy meal service and someones little darling just threw up in 31k.

      I’ve done back to back TATL/TCON for work as well and it’s no picnic, but I imagine its 100x worse serving entitled passengers like you (and me) for 7 hrs straight.

      • BrianDT says:

        16 May16 May 12:56

        Hi Bob, yes I live in a very nice large house with beautiful views, bought by working, very hard ,(no inheritance) as soon as I left school with four O levels. Decided the only way to aspire to my dreams was to start my own business, all legal and above board, and it has paid off. Obviously, not many decide to go that route.
        ps I only read Sky news on line.

• Rebecca says:

  16 May16 May 09:53

  You’re all missing the point that a contract is a contract.
  Both parties agree to it. You make arrangements according to the contract you won and signed.
  In this case one party has reneged.
  Not on.
  Compensation needed.

  • BrianDT says:

    16 May16 May 10:14

    So your contract doesn’t say you could give 6 months notice, or whatever, and BA likewise ?

    • Rebecca says:

      16 May16 May 10:58

      You can’t just tear up a contract and re-hire on lesser terms.

      • Craig W says:

        16 May16 May 11:04

        So is the alternative is to sack everyone? And hire again through mixed fleet? Genuine question.

      • Rob says:

        16 May16 May 11:14

        You can make everyone redundant and offer to rehire them on new terms.

      • Nick_C says:

        16 May16 May 12:00

        Sadly you can. And many of us have been through it.

      • Derek Scott says:

        17 May17 May 08:47

        Unfortunately you can effectively rip up a contract and replace it. Employers can use the collective consultation process to negotiate harmonisation of multiple “Legacy” contract T’s & C’s into one common standard contract.

        My Company started that process in January and just completed it.

        The process is effectively a Dismiss & Re-sign. The other term used unofficially is Self-Dismiss if you don’t accept the new contract, but it also has to go through individual consultation step(s), for those who don’t sign after the Collective stage.

        I’ve been through this in two different companies (two completely different industry sectors). Stressful and worrying it can be depending on what changes such a process is aiming to achieve, BA are doing what other companies are and have done.

• Martin Gee says:

  16 May16 May 10:15

  Talk about kicking someone when they’re down! It can only be described as immoral, tearing up ones contract knowing that if they leave it is probably going to be difficult to find a similar role and certainly not on the terms you currently receive.
  I truly feel for those cabin crew who are affected by this policy. Yes times in the airline industry are going to be difficult but one can only assume that Walshe is using this pandemic to implement changes that he has always dreamed of doing. Shameful and opportunistic.

• robbo says:

  16 May16 May 10:42

  I feel sorry for the buggers on one hand, but on the other hand I think they made their own bed now sleep in it. Clearly BA management do not value these people, they would otherwise treat them better than this. But having said that, they are the frontline to the airline and its customers. And the track record of the flight crew of the past 5-10 years has been one of laziness and arrogance and terribly bad service. It’s probably the foundation as to why BA management don’t value them. Perhaps this will be good for BA by doing an almighty clean-out of the dead wood ( which is most of them ) and bring in new fresh enthusiastic flight attendants who actually care about the passengers and the airline and their jobs. Happy days are here again.

  • Rebecca says:

    16 May16 May 11:11

    The clue here is ‘the last 5-10 years’. It was exactly 10 years ago that the new low paid fleet was set up. Pay is too low to pay rent or buy a home near the airport, or do grown up things like have a family. So this fleet is for young people that still live at home and are subsidised by parents.
    That’s fine, but anyone worth their salt will outgrow this ‘gap year’ fleet quickly and move on.
    Hence no loyalty, experience, or career progression. 1 year to see the world, and then the reality of constant jet lag, long nights and turbulence takes it’s toll.
    You can’t really expect too much pride in the job under these conditions and circumstances.

    • Check your facts says:

      16 May16 May 12:51

      I would have to somewhat disagree, I work on Mixed fleet, live in a rented flat in London and have money to save. This new pay proposal is a massive cut for even the lowest of earners. I have worked on MF for 4 years and earned at least 7K more than these new figures will allow last year.

• Boon says:

  16 May16 May 10:43

  A job is just a contract between a company and an individual. It allows both to cancel. Both parties are fully aware of the “cancellation” clauses and terms. Just like we consumers are when we buy a ticket.

  If you’re way overpaid, then you’re just waiting to be made redundant. Why would companies keep on staff when they can get replacements for cheaper?

  If you’re underpaid, you’re always free to move to another job and get paid more.

  I don’t feel bad for the BA cabin crew getting made redundant. They squeezed as much as they could over the years, through union contract negotiations and strike threats.

  If they feel their compensation is average or even below average…. Well, there are still many airlines worldwide when covid finishes. Even if you limit to the ones flying from heathrow or another London Airport. Take your pick.

  • Aston100 says:

    16 May16 May 12:48

    Well said

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