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(This not being able to edit after a few minutes is really annoying)
On those “points terms”, when they mention something related to the credit card itself the language used is “IHG Rewards Club Credit Card” or “IHG Rewards Club Premium Credit Card”
The context of point 6 also makes it quite clear that they are talking about the IHG points programme, not anything related to the credit card itself.
I don’t know how is this is even a point of discussion, it’s not complicated or obscure language.The terms are here: https://www.creation.co.uk/ihgcctermsandconditions/
Those whole, remarkably brief, terms relate to the credit card; that much has been previously determined at the FOS and in the County Court but clearly you know best! Unfortunately you can’t pick and choose which terms suit and which don’t.
It’s rather the same with people asking for pro-rata refunds or the anniversary night voucher when they didn’t reach their anniversary; neither is provided for in the terms, yet they expect it.
Clearly they do. They even tell people to check the full terms available at http://www.ihgrewardsclub.com, which everyone can see is clearly a Creation website – I have to say I’m surprised Creation managed to include in the terms a link to an actual functioning third-party website; I’d expect it to link to a revenge porn website or something like that.
(I know, I know, do not feed the troll.)Just went through the Subject access request data Creation gave me in November and it included the terms and conditions which i had signed up to in 2020, There is no mention of anything about points being withdrawn : it is IHG Rewards club credit card customer terms and conditions June 2016 which by there own admission mention were the ones i had otherwise they wouldn’t have sent. This is different to the ones that are now online, i do not remember being informed the terms had changed – could they have changed them recently?
Harley it doesn’t matter what Creation’s terms are now. Your contract with Creation is individual. The only terms that apply, are those you were made aware of when you signed up. Other than that Creation had to notify you of any changes at least 60days before tbey would be allowed to make those changes.
Other than being nasty and unfair and breaching their own terms and conditions in various ways that have been reported here, Creation has given the appearance of being disorganised, making last minute decisions and applying them without the required notice, failing to address complaints made to them, tried to pass off incomplete, poor and even absent communication as responses to customers’ complaints, and, it appears in at least some instances here, actually told lies about having addressed changes to customers that they hadn’t.
I have left a small amount on my IHG Rewards Card balance, and will look to pay off £5 per month until my card anniversary (in July). I then fully expect (haha) to receive my free night voucher, as per the card terms which state I will be eligible if my account remains “active” (which I guess it would be).
I feel that at this point my claim for a free night voucher will be fairly strong.Anyone else taking this approach?
http://www.ihgrewardsclub.com is NOT a Creation website:
Registrant Contact Information:
Name: Domain Administrator
Organization: InterContinental Hotels Group
Address: 3 Ravinia Drive, Suite 100
City: Atlanta
State / Province: GA
Postal Code: 30346
Country: US
Phone: +1.7706042000I have to say I’m surprised Creation managed to include in the terms a link to an actual functioning third-party website; I’d expect it to link to a revenge porn website or something like that.
Ha ha… Even that would make more sense than most of the content in the complaint decision letters coming back.
I have to say I feel sorry for Creation’s Customer Care team. The execs have clearly instructed them to tell all terminated card holders to bu**er off. They’re obviously struggling to articulate that in a way that bears any kind of scrutiny because their terms don’t provide them with any protection in this situation other than to admit that they’ve unilaterally instigated a situation in order to withhold nights and points which are reasonably earned and due, or would be at the end of a paid-for membership year.
Even the behaviour of those (likely small minority) that blatantly cycled large amounts through NS&I or similar doesn’t fall foul of any terms so far as I can see, which is presumably why we’re not hearing of terminations under clause 12. They could, of course, have prevented that so easily, for example by taking the kind of action that Virgin Money did to limit points earnings based on credit limit or charging such transactions as cash advances.
It may well be enough to put some people off and I’m sure JDB will be back in a moment with more smokescreen to that end 🙂
The heading for number 6 is clearly “IHG Club Rewards Club Information” which implies information regarding the IHG program not related to Creation not buying the points and sending them to the accounts.
Quoting number 6 as a reason not to give the points implies that IHG themselves have withheld the points rather than the truth which is Creation are trying to get out of it.
I have left a small amount on my IHG Rewards Card balance, and will look to pay off £5 per month until my card anniversary (in July). I then fully expect (haha) to receive my free night voucher, as per the card terms which state I will be eligible if my account remains “active” (which I guess it would be).
I feel that at this point my claim for a free night voucher will be fairly strong.Anyone else taking this approach?
Per 15 below, if you don’t pay off the outstanding balance your account will become delinquent.
15 Consequences of ending this Agreement
15.1 If you or we end this Agreement under any of clauses 12, 13 or 14, you must immediately: (a) pay to us the Outstanding Balance (and, for the avoidance of doubt, the Outstanding Balance
under each part of this Agreement);Have to agree with JDB on this one, all you’ll get is extra charges, a mark on your credit file and possibly your case getting passed to a debt recovery service which will charge you even more!
@JDB – this is their closure letter:
“Dear Froggee
Important information regarding your IHG Rewards Club Premium Credit Card Account
We are writing to inform you that we’re closing your Credit Card account from 3rd December 2021. You will no longer be able to use your credit card from this date, this will also apply to any additional cardholder(s) you have on you account.
If you have a balance on your account you will still be required to make at least your minimum payment each month until your balance is paid off in full.
Your sincerely
Customer Services Team”
Given the content of this letter, which has specifically advised on the need to pay at least your minimum payment, are you seriously telling me that Creation could then say “oh we didn’t mean what we wrote in our letter to you because our terms and conditions directly contradict it and we meant to totally say something different to you – sorry”?
Should Creation decide to make people’s accounts delinquent if they run a balance (which they may well do given their levels of competence) they do not have a leg to stand on. If they were to treat customers like this then we wouldn’t be talking about FOS or MCOL but instead the FCA (who do have some teeth). The FCA would undoubtedly be most unhappy with such poor behaviour. I’d be surprised if a hefty fine wouldn’t be forthcoming as writing to your customers advising that they need to make at least the minimum payment and then treating them as delinquent if they do exactly that is, in my view, criminal behaviour by a lender. I’m sure you have more to do with the FCA than me but I’m a regulated person and I know where the line is. Such behaviour is nowhere near that line.
@JDB – this is their closure letter:
“Dear Froggee
Important information regarding your IHG Rewards Club Premium Credit Card Account
We are writing to inform you that we’re closing your Credit Card account from 3rd December 2021. You will no longer be able to use your credit card from this date, this will also apply to any additional cardholder(s) you have on you account.
If you have a balance on your account you will still be required to make at least your minimum payment each month until your balance is paid off in full.
Your sincerely
Customer Services Team”
Given the content of this letter, which has specifically advised on the need to pay at least your minimum payment, are you seriously telling me that Creation could then say “oh we didn’t mean what we wrote in our letter to you because our terms and conditions directly contradict it and we meant to totally say something different to you – sorry”?
Should Creation decide to make people’s accounts delinquent if they run a balance (which they may well do given their levels of competence) they do not have a leg to stand on. If they were to treat customers like this then we wouldn’t be talking about FOS or MCOL but instead the FCA (who do have some teeth). The FCA would undoubtedly be most unhappy with such poor behaviour. I’d be surprised if a hefty fine wouldn’t be forthcoming as writing to your customers advising that they need to make at least the minimum payment and then treating them as delinquent if they do exactly that is, in my view, criminal behaviour by a lender. I’m sure you have more to do with the FCA than me but I’m a regulated person and I know where the line is. Such behaviour is nowhere near that line.
Wow! Your name really is Froggee. Fantastic!
If you have a balance on your account you will still be required to make at least your minimum payment each month until your balance is paid off in full.
@Froggee – I agree that it is a mistake and very sloppy, but in reality not much more than that; firms across the spectrum make mistakes all the time, so a big fine is wishful thinking. Usually, terms will prevail over that sort of letter. The problem is that if you decided to go with the letter, not pay the balance and it ended up being reported to a credit agency, the person would have a nightmare trying to get it removed over what is presumably a small sum. Unfortunately, if you look at FOS decisions, there are erroneous reports by lenders to credit agencies all the time. In any event, if the purpose is to attempt to reach ‘anniversary’ for a voucher, the account is clearly closed from 3 Dec even if the status of the account in the period from the letter to 3 Dec may be disputed.- This reply was modified 55 years, 4 months ago by .
Usually, terms will prevail over that sort of letter.
Absolutely not true, where do you get some of this stuff from?
Now would I want my own credit file at risk with a company like Creation? No, on that we agree, but the above is absolutely untrue. Unbelievable you’d say that tbh, given your clear experience in the field.
I didn’t say Creation were right – this is what they will do. The account is closed so it will be much easier to just pay off your balance than try and reverse bad marks on your credit score and fend off debt collectors and summons servers from the civil court.
@JDB my point isn’t that Creation would be fined for making this mistake but if they started messing up people’s credit histories despite this letter.
Personally I wouldn’t look to run a balance after closure and indeed did not use my card at all after receiving “the letter”.
What is clear is that Creation are not sending out well-reasoned communications vetted by experienced staff but instead their customer service staff appear to be scanning their Ts&Cs to justify actions and responses. There is a fair amount of inconsistency as well from what I have read on here. They are winging it.
I’m still amused that they gave notice to close my white card after a week and restricted its use quoting a clause which says:
“We will normally only restrict your right to make further draw downs if we reasonably consider payment of the Outstanding Balance to be at risk as, for example, where you have defaulted under any other agreement with us or any Associated Company.”
That one hurt my feelings.
In any event, if the purpose is to attempt to reach ‘anniversary’ for a voucher, the account is clearly closed from 3 Dec even if the status of the account in the period from the letter to 3 Dec may be disputed.
The term used is “active” not “open”. Since it’s not defined anywhere it’s not unreasonable to contend that an account with a balance is still an active account, or at least that is the way the you’ve interpreted it.
But that said I wouldn’t rely on it, and I don’t think I would chose to run a balance and pay interest for several months to make a point. Creation has clearly chosen not to enforce clause 15 through what they set out in the notice of closure, and through what they’ve set out on the December statements. Who knows if they will change their minds in the coming months and demand repayment in full? (I think that’s unlikely. It is, after all, a source of interest revenue when they no longer have any liabilities for points or free night vouchers from new spend… but this is Creation.)
For anyone with an anniversary on or after 3rd December, I would go with the argument that they’ve unilaterally and unfairly instigated a situation to withhold earned nights and points and that you paid the fee and spent the money on the card in the reasonable expectation that what you were told at the time you signed up would be honoured. They also kept pushing those benefits through the statements – in my case at least setting out the points earning benefits on the front page of my November statement. If your account had a balance on your anniversary date and you also want to argue that you view the account as still having been “active” on that date there’s probably little to lose in presenting that as a secondary argument.
- This reply was modified 55 years, 4 months ago by .
I’m still amused that they gave notice to close my white card after a week and restricted its use quoting a clause which says:
“We will normally only restrict your right to make further draw downs if we reasonably consider payment of the Outstanding Balance to be at risk as, for example, where you have defaulted under any other agreement with us or any Associated Company.”
I was amused that my wife had a letter from them in November about her white card, informing her that they would close her account as inactive if she didn’t put some spend through it… That was after receiving the letter saying they were closing it on the 3rd December anyway.
the account is clearly closed from 3 Dec even if the status of the account in the period from the letter to 3 Dec may be disputed
No need to dispute the status during the notice period. In their letters Creation clearly stated the account is closing from 3 Dec. Before then it is clearly not closed, and I agree fully with marks7389’s comments above (and have said some of this earlier in the thread).
At what point does the account become closed (rather than closing)? Under contract law it could arguably be only once the account is settled.
So anyone with anniversary between early October and 11 January (in my case, when my balance is due) is contractually entitled to their free night, assuming the spend target has been met – and Creation have no grounds/right to withhold this. For those anniversaries after 11 January it is less clear but I agree with how LL positioned this previously.
Total s-show of a company.
Tried to pay my final bill yesterday, wouldnt pass through to the lloyds payment challenge.
Today can’t even login, 500 errors
So anyone with anniversary between early October and 11 January (in my case, when my balance is due) is contractually entitled to their free night, assuming the spend target has been met – and Creation have no grounds/right to withhold this. For those anniversaries after 11 January it is less clear but I agree with how LL positioned this previously.
I think it’s 11th January for everyone as points transfers and therefore statement dates seem to have been the same for everyone (around the 22nd/23rd of the month).
Has anyone made a complaint to IHG? They are going to loose a lot of custom from 2022/2023 as a result of not having an active loyalty card in the UK. Only way to earn points now is Amex or Virgin and converting
I was 89 night last year at ihg , going to be doing a lot more travelling with work this year, but I don’t think I’ll even be double figures this year with ihg as will only be staying at ihg when there is no other viable option.
Has anyone made a complaint to IHG? They are going to loose a lot of custom from 2022/2023 as a result of not having an active loyalty card in the UK. Only way to earn points now is Amex or Virgin and converting
The Creation cards have not been closed for everyone.
Has anyone made a complaint to IHG? They are going to loose a lot of custom from 2022/2023 as a result of not having an active loyalty card in the UK. Only way to earn points now is Amex or Virgin and converting
The problem with that is that IHG has been known to close accounts at the suggestion of irregularity (even if only perceived or disputed) and there would be no recourse to the FOS for that.
No. IHG closed accounts when people were signing up for promotions that were not targeted at them. There is no indication whatsoever that they’ve closed accounts for MS.
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