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Interesting Scott. Do you mind if I ask when was your card anniversary was? Had you recently just paid the fee?
Hi. Anniversary was July, so I had paid it in July then received the notice in October I think it was – 3 months had passed and I had already earned the free night certificate.
So you’d already spent enough for a free night certificate plus earned more points after that, that weren’t paid out to you. You hadn’t misused the card.
Did you accept this because the combination of excess missing points that weren’t paid to you and the value of the free night you’d have booked were worth less than somewhere between £24 and £43?
For loss of use they owed you between £56 and £75 just for 7-9 eqvt pro rata annual fee months anyway (depending on whether you could still spend on the card during the 2 month notice period? and you got back £99.
@Scottpat78 struggling to understand why you’d walk away from the validly earned free night cert?
@Scalider Good luck
Hi Lady London / SteveJ….
I had earned the free night with spending between July & October and was awarded those points too. During October to December when I received the notice I started putting most spending on my HSBC Premier MC and used it sparingly anyway, so points accumulated (that were not awarded) wasn’t an issue.
The free night cert is a loss and normally we’d use it for a trip away in the UK. Normally has a value at between £150 – £200 for us. Given that I am getting back the £99 (which qualifies me for the free night cert), I took the decision that I wasn’t happy with it, but might not have gained much more for a lot more hassle for something valued at around £50 – £100 for me. Might be a poor decision, but I’m done with Creation now and move on. I’ve accepted the hit.
They did reject all my claim firstly, then I replied stating my objection. It was in reply to the below that they offered me the annual fee refund.
Really keen to see how others get on and hope anyone still pursuing this get what they want / deem fair.
=========================
Hi. I have just received your written response to my complaint via post. You have stated in this response that despite paying a full years annual fee in July 2021, that I will not receive a pro rata refund following the closure of my account in December 2021.You have explained that you believe this decision is fair. I disagree. I cannot understand why it would be deemed not necessary to pro rata refund an annual fee taken 3 months prior to notice of account closure. I have paid an annual fee, then you stopped all benefits 3 months after paying the fee and closing my account 5 months after payment date. During the period of paying the annual fee and you notifying me of account closure, I qualified for the free night certificate associated with the night also, something that is no now longer available.
I wish to discuss this further please. Can someone reply or call me to discuss?
I intend to take this matter forward with a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service if I do not achieve a satisfactory outcome.
=======================- This reply was modified 55 years, 4 months ago by .
Sorry @Scottpat78 I have no idea why you’ve decided to let Creation treat you like this. By your own admission you’ve left £176 or not much less owed to you, plus whatever amount would have been awarded to you for distress/inconvenience etc.
The kicker in having to pay custoners they’ve mistreated would hopefully be Creation learns from this and runs a clean operation that does not mistreat custoners in the future
You have fallen ezactly into Creation’s wishes to try to get away with sleazy behaviour and reduce their financial liabilities.
How dare you say you wish everyone luck when you’ve rolled over like your pet pooch and were happy Creation just tickled your tummy?
It’s unbelievable isn’t it @JDB? How badly Creation is doing on basic points of procedure. Just on this page we have @harley’s complaint that has sunk without trace for three months, and Margarathea where Creation hasn’t handled a simple please-pay-it-to-my-bank-account request.
After much chasing for a response to my complaint, it turns out Creation posted their response just to my postcode; no first line address even. I’m not surprised.
Interesting Scott. Do you mind if I ask when was your card anniversary was? Had you recently just paid the fee?
Hi. Anniversary was July, so I had paid it in July then received the notice in October I think it was – 3 months had passed and I had already earned the free night certificate.
So you’d already spent enough for a free night certificate plus earned more points after that, that weren’t paid out to you. You hadn’t misused the card.
Did you accept this because the combination of excess missing points that weren’t paid to you and the value of the free night you’d have booked were worth less than somewhere between £24 and £43?
For loss of use they owed you between £56 and £75 just for 7-9 eqvt pro rata annual fee months anyway (depending on whether you could still spend on the card during the 2 month notice period? ) and you got back £99.
Hi Lady London, basically, yes. I had earned the free night with spending between July & October and was awarded those points too. During October to December when I received the notice I started putting most spending on my HSBC Premier MC and used it sparingly anyway, so points accumulated (that were not awarded) wasn’t an issue.
The free night cert is a loss and normally we’d use it for a trip away in the UK. Normally has a value at between £150 – £200 for us. Given that I am getting back the £99, I took the decision that I wasn’t happy with it, but might not have gained much more for a lot more hassle for something valued at around £50 – £100 for me. Might be a poor decision, but I’m done with Creation now and move on. I’ve accepted the hit.
They did reject all my claim firstly, then I replied stating my objection. It was in reply to the below that they offered me the annual fee refund.
Really keen to see how others get on and hope anyone still pursuing this get what they want / deem fair.
=========================
Hi. I have just received your written response to my complaint via post. You have stated in this response that despite paying a full years annual fee in July 2021, that I will not receive a pro rata refund following the closure of my account in December 2021.You have explained that you believe this decision is fair. I disagree. I cannot understand why it would be deemed not necessary to pro rata refund an annual fee taken 3 months prior to notice of account closure. I have paid an annual fee, then you stopped all benefits 3 months after paying the fee and closing my account 5 months after payment date. During the period of paying the annual fee and you notifying me of account closure, I qualified for the free night certificate associated with the night also, something that is no now longer available.
I wish to discuss this further please. Can someone reply or call me to discuss?
I intend to take this matter forward with a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service if I do not achieve a satisfactory outcome.
=======================Interesting Scott. Do you mind if I ask when was your card anniversary was? Had you recently just paid the fee?
Hi. Anniversary was July, so I had paid it in July then received the notice in October I think it was – 3 months had passed and I had already earned the free night certificate.
So you’d already spent enough for a free night certificate plus earned more points after that, that weren’t paid out to you. You hadn’t misused the card.
Did you accept this because the combination of excess missing points that weren’t paid to you and the value of the free night you’d have booked were worth less than somewhere between £24 and £43?
For loss of use they owed you between £56 and £75 just for 7-9 eqvt pro rata annual fee months anyway (depending on whether you could still spend on the card during the 2 month notice period? and you got back £99.
@Genghis – I’ve given up quoting when someone quoted as it goes straight into the ether. As far as I’m concerned that is a GDPR breach that should go straight to the ICO. And that’s not even being petty. If a financial services company cannot even address envelopes properly then the ICO needs to know and Creation needs to fix it.
Wow, OK. We all have a different opinion of what’s achievable and what’s realistic. Creation could cancel the agreement with appropriate notice at any time. Yes, I’ve given up ‘earned’ rewards, but this was earned on everyday spending. I didn’t have to do anything to earn them that cost me time or money.
In my opinion, getting the full refund of a fee which qualified me for a free night cert isn’t great, but falls (for me) into the realms of reasonable. I’ve taken the decision to take it and move on. I either pay the fee and earn entitlement to a reward, or don’t get the reward but have a refund of the fee. It’s that black & white for me.
Would I want a different outcome – yes – a IHG CC to remain active but that’s not going to happen is it? I challenged once and had the annual fee refunded in full, for me this is deemed acceptable from an organisation that doesn’t seem that great on customer service.
Did I leave money on the table – yes, but nothing that was out of my pocket at all, that’s a huge consideration for me in deciding to pursue or close it out and move on. Did I suffer distress – absolutely not. Did I suffer inconvenience – not really, I had to make a couple of calls and write a few emails. I switched my spending to another rewards CC almost immediately on receiving notice.
I genuinely hope others get what they deem to be acceptable to them.
Sorry @Scottpat78 I have no idea why you’ve decided to let Creation treat you like this. By your own admission you’ve left £176 or not much less owed to you, plus whatever amount would have been awarded to you for distress/inconvenience etc.
The kicker in having to pay custoners they’ve mistreated would hopefully be Creation learns from this and runs a clean operation that does not mistreat custoners in the future
You have fallen ezactly into Creation’s wishes to try to get away with sleazy behaviour and reduce their financial liabilities.
How dare you say you wish everyone luck when you’ve rolled over like your pet pooch and were happy Creation just tickled your tummy?
@Lady London I think your criticisms of @Scottpat78 are misplaced! He has probably actually achieved a good result in getting the fee back given that his anniversary falls in July. It’s his pragmatic and avoiding hassle decision. Realistically, the prospects of getting the voucher for those whose anniversaries are many months away are very poor as reaching your anniversary date is an absolute requirement as £10k spend alone doesn’t get you the voucher; that much is crystal clear. Those who anniversaries fell in the two month notice period or very close might possibly have a case. I appreciate that criticising Creation is the height of fashion on HfP, but having seen the recent actions of Amex and many similar past actions by them, if they cancelled your PRG in December after you had spent £15k, but your anniversary was the following July, do you seriously think they would give you the 10k bonus MR? The answer is no. This is standard industry practice.
In respect of your previous question re delayed complaint responses & payment of the refund, as with many organisations, you may need to chase them; it isn’t that complicated!
Yep, spot on. Always a trade off for what’s unlawful Vs what’s just hacking you off.
@Lady London I think your criticisms of @Scottpat78 are misplaced! He has probably actually achieved a good result in getting the fee back given that his anniversary falls in July. It’s his pragmatic and avoiding hassle decision. Realistically, the prospects of getting the voucher for those whose anniversaries are many months away are very poor as reaching your anniversary date is an absolute requirement as £10k spend alone doesn’t get you the voucher; that much is crystal clear. Those who anniversaries fell in the two month notice period or very close might possibly have a case. I appreciate that criticising Creation is the height of fashion on HfP, but having seen the recent actions of Amex and many similar past actions by them, if they cancelled your PRG in December after you had spent £15k, but your anniversary was the following July, do you seriously think they would give you the 10k bonus MR? The answer is no. This is standard industry practice.
In respect of your previous question re delayed complaint responses & payment of the refund, as with many organisations, you may need to chase them; it isn’t that complicated!
I wouldn’t class a £99 refund a “good result” giving they are owed much more.
Calling someone a pet is not nice…
Probably Scottpat78 is the smarter one, he’ll get his compensation when the FCA looks into the case and makes Creation compensate all affected customers.Yes, I’ve given up ‘earned’ rewards, but this was earned on everyday spending. I didn’t have to do anything to earn them that cost me time or money.
Well, that’s not true. There are opportunity costs in those transactions.
- This reply was modified 55 years, 4 months ago by .
Hi @Stevenhp1987 …. I’m still wondering what else I am owed? I needed to be an active customer by next anniversary date to be awarded the free night cert. They gave me correct notice to close my account prior to the anniversary date. I had all earned points transferred to my IHG account and am receiving 100% refund on fees.
Willing to learn so next time anything like this happens I know what to look for.
Hi Rui – what other opportunity costs are there please, that I am missing? The account was closed according to the terms of my agreement and I received a full refund on all fees plus was granted all IHG points earned via the card prior to account closure notification.
Calling someone a pet is not nice…
Probably Scottpat78 is the smarter one, he’ll get his compensation when the FCA looks into the case and makes Creation compensate all affected customers.Yes, I’ve given up ‘earned’ rewards, but this was earned on everyday spending. I didn’t have to do anything to earn them that cost me time or money.
Well, that’s not true. There are opportunity costs in those transactions.
@Scottpat78, Rui’s point is that of you had known that you wouldn’t get the free night, would you have put that spend on this card or another card?
If your answer is you would have diverted your spend elsewhere and received other rewards, that’s the opportunity cost (i.e. for 10k spend you could have had BA or Virgin 241 vouchers).
@Scottpat78, you could have spent elsewhere to earn say a Virgin Rewards Voucher instead of not getting the IHG voucher. That’s the opportunity cost.
You are legally entitled to any points earned during the 2 month closure window. The fact you chose not to, and therefore not needing to fight it, is your choice.
No company has the right to deny benefits during the notice period. It’s the same as an employer denying you pay during a notice period.
I personally would have fought for the free night voucher as, while the closure for you may be within the terms, denying benefits paid for is against the spirit of the agreement. What’s to stop them giving every customer notice ending 1 day before the free night is due?
Not everyone had their account closed legally either. My card was shutdown abruptly with no notice.
The opportunity cost of having used a card that did not you earn anything when you could have used another card.
Understood, thanks. I have been able to use the IHG points accumulated prior to account closure notice for stays, so I am reasonably happy I earned them still. I’m still within my current year for the BA PP membership / 241 and already earned it so diverting the spend elsewhere would have got me points, but no other awards.
@Scottpat78, Rui’s point is that of you had known that you wouldn’t get the free night, would you have put that spend on this card or another card?
If your answer is you would have diverted your spend elsewhere and received other rewards, that’s the opportunity cost (i.e. for 10k spend you could have had BA or Virgin 241 vouchers).
Thanks Steven, understood and a fair point. I feel that is why everyone’s individual circumstances warrant a different outcome or progression. For me, I could have spent on my BA PP card or as a supp. holder of my wife’s BA PP, but we have both already earned the 241 voucher so it would have been more Avios, no other bonus. I had plans for the IHG points I did accumulate up to account closure notice period and have used them already for a booking at Easter in the US. Therefore, in my circumstance, since I switched spending immediately on notice to the HSBC Premier MC, I still earned points elsewhere. I haven’t lost any IHG points at all.
I agree that the free night is also based on what anyone deems to be fair or not – in your example, having it cancelled 1 day prior to it being awarded could not be construed as fair by any reasonable party. Again though, that isn’t my circumstance.
Your circumstance does sound different and I 100% agree that having it closed without notice isn’t legal and I would be contesting that all the way – good luck!
@Scottpat78, you could have spent elsewhere to earn say a Virgin Rewards Voucher instead of not getting the IHG voucher. That’s the opportunity cost.
You are legally entitled to any points earned during the 2 month closure window. The fact you chose not to, and therefore not needing to fight it, is your choice. But you’ll be alone in that choice.
No company has the right to deny benefits during the notice period. It’s the same as an employer denying you pay during a notice period.
I personally would have fought for the free night voucher as, while the closure for you may be within the terms, denying benefits paid for is against the spirit of the agreement. What’s to stop them giving every customer notice ending 1 day before the free night is due?
Not everyone had their account closed legally either. My card was shutdown abruptly with no notice.
Understood, thanks Rui. I did switch to earn points on another card at point of notice and have been able to use the points prior to notice already.
The opportunity cost of having used a card that did not you earn anything when you could have used another card.
- This reply was modified 55 years, 4 months ago by .
@stevenhp1987 in respect of your comments:-
“What’s to stop them giving every customer notice ending 1 day before the free night is due?” If they did that there might be an issue, but they didn’t.
“Not everyone had their account closed legally either. My card was shutdown abruptly with no notice.” What was unlawful about that? They are entitled to do that and without giving reasons in specific circumstances. They didn’t do that many, so likely had valid reasons.
- This reply was modified 55 years, 4 months ago by .
@JDB here we go again on your “industry practice so it must be right”.
No it’s not right and the FOS needs to stop that industry practice. With the FOS being in such a mess it mighg take a court judgment for breach of contract / unfair contract terms, before the FOS actually says this is unfair and gets such practices stopped. Unfortunately MCOL judgments don’t in themselves set precedent but a win or two would be a start.
It has to be made the case that if the finance industry wants to give a provider the choice to summarily deny usage and benefits or deny benefits during a notice period (whoever gave notice) then if the provider wants to hide behind some rule that they don’t have to give a reason, then provider must pay out all benefits and compensate for any loss of opportunity on benefits as well.
If the provider chooses to name reasons and proves fault of the part of the cardholder then I wouldn’t say this.
But Ombudsmen and regulators have to recognise not declaring why AND not paying out is unfair. Let provider choose.
For the FOS to have let this ‘industry practice’ of effectively not having to provide the notice required on a unilateral termination for no cause, which is what it amounts to, makes the FOS nothing more than a sock puppet.
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