Why are the British Airways unions snubbing redundancy consultations?

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• Mart says:

  27 May27 May 07:45

  I read somewhere that unite are commencing direct pressure tactics against the board/shareholders very powerful tool with proven results.

  • Andrew says:

    27 May27 May 09:33

    Oh, I remember Unite doing that in Scotland.

    They targetted the homes and children of senior staff at Grangemouth. It’s called “leveraging”.

    Google search using the terms:-

    Grangemouth leveraging unite

    • mark2 says:

      27 May27 May 09:44

      I would call it extortion or terrorism – surely illegal?

      • mart says:

        27 May27 May 10:04

        all legal and above board
        has already saved thousands of jobs in the UK
        Peugeot being one of the biggest successes
        no union would support it if a company was genuinely struggling but greed ?

        • Josh says:

          27 May27 May 10:54

          It sounds disturbing.

• Ken says:

  27 May27 May 08:49

  The “opening an email “ is clearly utter nonsense from the union.

  Where they are on stronger ground are things like;
  BA have presented a fait accompli and no meaningful negotiation is possible, they are merely going through the motions.

  Whilst there is provision for unions to carry out the consultation on behalf of their members, it is hard for individuals to have their say whilst on furlough.

  Was there a method for selecting employees to be dismissed? I’m not sure one has been disclosed so far. If it’s WW and EF then age discrimination may come into it.

  How is consultation being achieved for non union members if they aren’t at work.

  What about volunteers for redundancy (I appreciate there will be few, bar those near retirement).

  It’s high risk poker though for the unions if they fail to engage and try the employment tribunal route. Or maybe it’s just delaying tactics and a late offer to go to ACAS mediation will be made. Clearly tactically if the unions can kick the process down the road by even 2-3 months, any return of flying strengthens their hand a little.

  Who knows how employment tribunal will view the current exceptional circumstances ? Equally how will they view BA crying poverty whilst refusing any bailouts ?

  Will keep the lawyers in fees for years.

  • Rob says:

    27 May27 May 09:02

    Here is a line from a corporate website on advice to staff:

    “We recognise that some people use their work email for personal matters so you will still be able to access your emails. However, you must not send or respond to any work-related emails while you are furloughed.”

    Here is one from a legal website:

    “Q. Can an employee who is furloughed check emails to just forward on anything that needs doing to their colleagues who are working?

    This might be deemed “providing services” so our advice is not to allow your employees to do any work whilst they are furloughed.”

    and another law website:

    “Can furlough staff still pick up emails and forward on key communications to managers, so they are not missed?
    No, this would amount to work or providing a service to the employer. Employers placing employees on furlough need to make it clear that they are not required to undertake any work. A mechanism for emails to be monitored should be put in place during their absence.”

    • Andrew says:

      27 May27 May 09:40

      Of course, many furloughed employees are relying on being able to access work emails to know when they should come back to work.

      Or checking their payslips

      Or downloading their P60

      Or accessing “colleague offers”. Is my other half breaking furlough rules by getting 30% off our new bed (which stacks with the Brook & Wilde Amex offer) by getting the code from her staff email account?

    • AJA says:

      27 May27 May 11:32

      Rob those examples are all about employees responding to emails from their employer or a customer. The unions are not their employer so BA employees can still access email to read and respond to emails sent to them by their union via BA’s email system.

      What they can’t do is respond to or forward an email from a BA colleague or customer if it is work related unless it is to do with their furlough. Isn’t it the case that BA announced and agreed with the government that BA staff would be put on furlough for three weeks at a time and rotate who is on furlough and who is not? I am pretty sure that responding to emails received from BA in that instance would not break the rules.

• Ken says:

  27 May27 May 08:53

  I think Rob is ultra supportive of the employees at BA.

  But to an outsider it does look like consultation is a sham and this is union busting. Hopefully some nice e-mails between management get leaked indicating this.

  • Ken says:

    27 May27 May 09:12

    Oops it was Rhys who wrote it.

    A generational thing. No solidarity against the bosses from the young !

    • Rhys says:

      27 May27 May 09:14

      I’m supportive of BA employees. It’s just hard to see how snubbing consultations will result in a better outcome for staff 🙂

  • Lady London says:

    27 May27 May 14:57

    @Ken the powers that be at BA are way, way too smart for that.

• Andrew says:

  27 May27 May 08:54

  It’s such a shame BA has become such a disappointing company – always cost cutting, treating staff poorly and providing an inferior product for the customer. I’m sure this comment will spark the usual disagreement from the BA lovers on this site, but I just think it’s a shame they aren’t more driven my quality rather than profit.

  • J says:

    27 May27 May 09:55

    And BA will never beat Ryanair at their own game. Funny thing is in economy Ryanair is actually a better product – more legroom and guaranteed hand luggage in cabin.

    • Rhys says:

      27 May27 May 10:07

      Only if you pay for hand luggage!

    • Alex M says:

      27 May27 May 12:22

      have to admit ba’s hand luggage police is veeery generous.

      • J says:

        27 May27 May 13:56

        Ryanair guarantee hand luggage for a small charge. Most short haul BA flights some passengers have to check their hand luggage – inevitable of course since intro of hand luggage only fares.

        • Chuck says:

          27 May27 May 17:00

          BA is Free and I can take 2 pieces up to 23KG EACH !!! Not that I would on short haul but It’s a very good deal.

• Paul says:

  27 May27 May 09:22

  I hope that’s an unfortunate name-fellow rather than a poor choice of pseudonym!

• Froggitt says:

  27 May27 May 09:24

  Have BA offered to legacy staff the option to take the pay cut, but remain as past of the long/short haul fleet? That would allow long haul staff to continue living in Durham etc while still taking *one* long haul round trip a week. And the short haul staff would know they will be home for 6pm.

  • Froggitt says:

    27 May27 May 09:25

    And they could offer the same working practices to the mixed fleet, who may see this as a good thing.

    • Rhys says:

      27 May27 May 09:28

      Isn’t this the kind of thing that consultations are for?

      • Froggitt says:

        27 May27 May 09:31

        Most consultations are just going thru the motions and ticking boxes to say they’ve consulted, while leaving the company proposals unchanged.

      • Ken says:

        27 May27 May 09:37

        I’d say 90% + of the consultation process is just to tick all the legal boxes and minimise future ET claims.

        It’s frequently just going through the motions.

        BA have started with such an extreme position & at a time when the unions have no levers that’s it’s difficult to imagine unions coming away with anything that could be sold as a win.

        It really sticks in the craw that BA will effectively use furlough (which was actually called a job retention scheme) to run both the consultation clock down, then peoples notice periods.

        The taxpayer picking up the tag for the direct opposite of what the furlough scheme was intended to do.
        Sickening corporate behaviour.

  • AJA says:

    27 May27 May 10:01

    I doubt it. It’s not really in BA’s interests to do so. It wants to simplify the structure and maintaining different contracts for staff essentially doing the same role doesn’t make sense. It’s going for lowest common denominator and who can blame them for trying. I don’t agree with what BA is doing but I can see why they are. But as Rhys says the unions need to engage with BA and they can then put that proposal forward.

    • Joanna says:

      27 May27 May 15:34

      Unfortunately the changes to the terms and conditions are a significant pay decrease in many cases over 50% and a contract that allows the airline to dispense with a disciplinary process and allow them to dismiss employees without notice or change their hours. This really isn’t about simplification. BA workers face a stark choice, either lose your job or lose your pay and conditions, and to be one of the lucky ones they will need to undertake an assessment process

      • Mikeact says:

        27 May27 May 16:17

        50% ? Of what ?

    • Lady London says:

      27 May27 May 21:55

      One of the words companies use that immediately raises a red flag is “simplify”.
      If the company you work for ever says they’re making changes to “simplify”, run for the hills.

      It’s *never* that.

• Steve says:

  27 May27 May 09:55

  Yet again, unions doing a sterling effort on behalf of their members. It’s not the 1970s anymore. Somebody should pass that on to Unite and the GMB.

  • Duck Ling says:

    27 May27 May 10:42

    Yes I agree. I think we should instead live in a world where companies making profits in the billions and paying their CEO’s tens of millions can simply reduce long serving staff pay by 50%+.

    No. That is not the world I want my children to grow up in.

    Companies should behave ethically and morally. BA is being grossly unfair here. The only airline I know of that has taken a public health pandemic as the opportunity to slash pay, terms and conditions of staff. Front line staff that is. Different for those at the top.

    They should consider renaming it Dominic Cummings Airlines.

• Peter says:

  27 May27 May 10:25

  What we need at Heathrow is more competition as BA has over 50% of the slots available, which is one of the reasons that management have been able to get away with the reduction in the quality of the airline’s product over recent years.

  With BA making 12,000 of 45,000 of their staff redundant (so about 27%) they surely should also give up 27% of their slots at Heathrow. That would increase competition.

  • Rob says:

    27 May27 May 10:36

    They are giving up 27% of their slots (they have no choice, with 27% fewer staff to fly the planes) but they are all at Gatwick! Any extra requirement will come from the 80% ‘use it or lose rule’ being pushed to its limit, so aircraft will see their departure time change marginally from day to day to fill different slots.

    • PeterK says:

      27 May27 May 11:49

      Rob. BA won’t be giving up any LHR slots, they can maintain all they have by using more of their slot portfolio for short haul services on a temporary basis until markets recover. I would also expect some or all of BA’s previous long haul flying at LGW to move to LHR to cover slots. BA has a lot of small Embraer jets previously operating at LCY that could also fill in gaps at LHR (and LGW)

      • Rob says:

        27 May27 May 12:16

        I think that’s what I said!

        • Lady London says:

          27 May27 May 15:02

          Govt needs to take 1/3 of BA slots off them in 2-3 years and not let BA re-bid for them. They no longer deserve any.privileges as flag carrier.

          If they want to make every decision just commercial, fine. Let’s make that work both ways.

        • Mikeact says:

          27 May27 May 16:22

          @LL Take away 1/3 ? And the rationale for that ? Why not half, why not a quarter, why not the lot ? I don’t understand.

        • Lady London says:

          27 May27 May 16:49

          I’ll leave the exact amount to you @Mikeact. Should be just enough for them to hurt a bit and let them know that being commercial cuts both ways.

        • Lady London says:

          27 May27 May 16:50

          PS i mean LHR slots. Those are the ones that matter.

        • Ken says:

          27 May27 May 18:59

          Absolutely BA should be stripped of some Heathrow slots. They shouldn’t be squatting on the most valuable slots in the world flying to European holiday destinations like Faro, Zante, Tenerife etc.

    • Londonsteve says:

      28 May28 May 01:43

      Might we see the advent of Embraers shuttling between LHR and SEN to keep slots occupied?
      Might we then see a change in the rules to ensure that airlines use slots for commercial flights carrying fare paying passengers?

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